Consumer Report dissed the 2012 328i

Originally Posted by dtc100

According to Motorweek Magazine, they now consider the new 3 a great "family sporty sedan," but no longer a driver's car, the 1 series is made to fill that void.

Motorweek is the Diet Coke of video magazines. I saw their test. They took a Modern Line to the track and complained about the handling. But it makes sense that the smaller, shorter wheelbase, hydraulic steering 1 series would be a sharper handling car.

Originally Posted by galahad05

The question becomes, why the BMW instead of the Audi?

We seem to be on a path where it will eventually come down to who makes the prettiest daytime running lights. I'm hopeful that maybe Cadillac can fill in the void with the ATS.

Originally Posted by hellosopo

We seem to be on a path where it will eventually come down to who makes the prettiest daytime running lights. I'm hopeful that maybe Cadillac can fill in the void with the ATS.

Or who has the fanciest infotainment system. Even GM finally recognizes this. The infotainment system (CUE) in the ATS is supposed to be more cutting edge, like a built-in iPad.

Originally Posted by galahad05

The question becomes, why the BMW instead of the Audi?
The only thing I can think of is the weight distribution: the BMW will still handle more neutrally.

Both the A6 and the GS350 out handles the 535i.

Thread bump. Brought our E90 in for service by the dealer and were given a new F30 for the day. I will be fair:
1. Infotainment system/layout/ extra space/fuel economy
2. Visibility
3. Auto start/stop the car rattles back to life, it is quite unsettling
4. Manual shift - completely lifeless, plastic feel, the tightness of the 6 speed in the E90 is gone.
5. Steering - I have said it before but I just can't believe how artificial it feels, even in "sport" mode.
6. Exterior style
7. HUD
8. Sea comfort - same hard German crap

Bottom line, getting my car back felt like I turned in the Honda Civic loaner and got back my BMW. If this is what CAFE standards do to handling, I will gladly burn 14mpg city and 22 highway in an E90 than Driving an F30. The new model is a big step forward in terms of fuel economy, gadgets and conveniences, and a giant step back in terms of overall driving dynamics
Here's to hoping that the steering gets tuned ove time...
In closing, the only good that came out of this experience was that my wife will NOT be getting the F30 so back to the drawing board...

Originally Posted by Bemo

Thread bump. Brought our E90 in for service by the dealer and were given a new F30 for the day. I will be fair:
1. Infotainment systtem/layout/ extra space/fuel economy
2. Visibility

A lot of people on here were saying that the sound on start-up was very harsh and had a rattle to it. Did you notice that, or is the sound inside the car so insulated that it is unrecognizeable? Also, lots of complaints on the steering feel. Any opinions after your short time with the car?

Originally Posted by rdkind62

A lot of people on here were saying that the sound on start-up was very harsh and had a rattle to it. Did you notice that, or is the sound inside the car so insulated that it is unrecognizeable? Also, lots of complaints on the steering feel. Any opinions after your short time with the car?

Huge rattle, borderline scary. Every fiber in me wanted the new generation to be better in all aspects but i kept going back to the lifeless steering.

I can't figure out the long term agenda with this, is BMW losing focus with balancing the sportiness and convenience of the 3 series? Do they want to force enthusiasts into the M division?
One aspect I didnot mention was the new 4 cylinder engine, something about it bothered me, it just didnot sound or feel as silky as the 6... It's hard to explain, it's like they wanted to "mask" the fact it was a 4 but didn't do a good enough job of it
Not good boys and girls, not good...

Originally Posted by captainaudio

If someone does not agree with me they are not a blind loyalist.

If someone does not agree with me they are wrong.

Loyalty has nothing to do with it.

CA

Dude, you kill me.

Originally Posted by boilers93

A blind loyalist is someone who talked (boasted?) for years and years about the reason BMW's were so much better than comparable Audi's and Mercs (including essentially all of the Car Rags, err, Mags) was because the direct weighty steering feel, handling, and smooth in-line six engine were incomparable who now dismisses all of those clear advantages off as not that important, unmeasurable, and I am sure BMW engineers know what they are doing, now that they do not exist in the F30 328.

THAT is a blind loyalist.

I don't think you'll find many of those types here.

BTW, I am not so disappointed in the move toward small FI engines. Its not what I would want, but I understand the rationale. What I can't live with, and what will keep me from the F30, is EPS.

Now, I am optimistic BMW will solve the equation that returns feel and precision to their steering, but to me EPS robs the new 3 series of the essence of BMWness.

That said, I understand your point and what you are reacting to....

BMW is losing it's way. R&T has ranked the Lexus GS and Audi A6 ahead of the 535. I know the 911 now uses electric steering, but it seems they have done a better job tuning it. I am guessing the mid cycle refresh will happen sooner with the 3 series, since I do not think in this economy people will have an appitite to spend $40K+ on the 328 with it's shortfalls in engine and steering.

The BMW 6 cyl engine is much more suited for the start stop function, it turns on and off almost un-noticeably, unless you are looking for quick off the line acceleration, then there is a lag in acceleration due to the engine starting. The 4 cyl engine starts up rough, the start and stop is much more intrusive than the 6 cyl.
I think it will take BMW a few years to tune the steering just right. As far as the smoothness and the sound of the 4 cyl engine, BMW will get it right, it can be done. If Audi can make a smooth 4 cyl turbo, so can BMW.

Originally Posted by Cultr

I do believe it, having tested one at the dealership, even though I was expecting the engine to sound different than an i6, when the salesman fired up the engine it really gave me an initial shock, it is diesel sounding. As for the dealership's response to my comment, they said "you can only hear it while outside the car, so it wouldn't be a problem".

Throttle response is pretty good though in sport mode. In normal mode it does hesitate a bit due to the turbo lag.

LOL. Don't you love the feces that dealers come up with?

Well the new 3 is selling well. You will be surprised how few people today care about driving dynamics and precision. People are too preoccupied by the new techs.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Well the new 3 is selling well. You will be surprised how few people today care about driving dynamics and precision. People are too preoccupied by the new techs.

I guess they got the TV advertising correct, then... Let's show off the "ultimate driving machine" by showcasing

• The huge goose-neck hinges so the trunk pops up.
• The 36mpg (sic) four banger.
• The useless thing that reads my email, because I'm so important that I can't wait to know who is emailing me about what.
• The heated steering wheel you can get standard on a Buick Verano for a lot less money.
• Comfort access for when pulling a key fob out of my pocket to open and start my car is just too much effort to exert.

I still have yet to see one on the road.

I hate this pathetic engine, and them too.

Originally Posted by Autoweek

The engine sounds like a 4 cylinder, and when you spend $60,000 on your 5 Series, mid level luxury ride, I don't know that you want the thing to sound like a lawnmower.

[video]

I hardly have the time to read through this...

But I fear CR is right.

Everybody loves to bash them when they're criticizing someone's preferred brand, but they really do know their ish when it comes to automotive reviews (forget the bland generic text - check out their videos). I've not driven the F30, but I have test driven a number of F10s and just recently had a 2012 528xi loaner and was not the least bit impressed. Yes, very numb feeling electric steering left me feeling totally disconnected from the car and what it's doing, and while the 4-cylinder engine is quite good and capable, it's still a 4-cylinder and is not even remotely close to matching the superior sound, feel, and character of the old naturally aspirated Inline-6 engine. As for the Start-Stop system, yes it did CLUNK to a stop and CLUNK when starting up and was not at all seamless. On a $50k car like the F10 you shouldn't be feeling that. As soon as I got the call that my E93 was done being fixed, I rushed back to the dealership because I couldn't wait to drop that F10 off. To be honest, it didn't feel any better to drive than the 2012 Camry that my folks just picked up for half the price. The X5d I had the day before felt a whole lot better to drive, which still has the "old fashioned" hydraulic steering. I bet you the next X5 has electric steering and the N20. .

Dunno what I'm gonna do when my E93 lease is up. Just not sure about these new ones. I'm treating mine good as if I might be buying out the lease when it's done. One of the reasons I bought it and equipped it like I did is because it's one of the last "old fashioned" BMWs with their good hydraulic steering rack and no silly iDrive system or complicated controls, and no 4-banger. Just straight-6's.

I'm totally with you, SteVTEC. We bought a passel of BMWs at the end of last year and early this year for the old technology - a 328i xDrive for the NA N52 I-6 motor, the 335is for the Bi-Turbo N54 and the M3 below for the NA 414HP V8. We'll never own a 4 popper Bimmer.

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

I hardly have the time to read through this...

But I fear CR is right.


Dunno what I'm gonna do when my E93 lease is up. Just not sure about these new ones. I'm treating mine good as if I might be buying out the lease when it's done. One of the reasons I bought it and equipped it like I did is because it's one of the last "old fashioned" BMWs with their good hydraulic steering rack and no silly iDrive system or complicated controls, and no 4-banger. Just straight-6's.

Sorry, but you mean, old fashioned as in "turbo", oh, er, I mean, twin turbo??? No dipstick? No limited slip? I think you should go find an E30M3 to satisfy, that was and still is an amazing machine, and, it's a 4 banger, and the S14 is one of BMWs most famous engines to date.

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Sorry, but you mean, old fashioned as in "turbo", oh, er, I mean, twin turbo??? No dipstick? No limited slip? I think you should go find an E30M3 to satisfy, that was and still is an amazing machine, and, it's a 4 banger, and the S14 is one of BMWs most famous engines to date.

So how is the "electronically controlled differential" on my 335is better than the Torsen (torque-sensing) limited slip differential on my Honda S2000?

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

So how is the "electronically controlled differential" on my 335is better than the Torsen (torque-sensing) limited slip differential on my Honda S2000?

You failed to see my point, it is NOT better. He mixed up words like "old fashioned" with the 335.

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Sorry, but you mean, old fashioned as in "turbo", oh, er, I mean, twin turbo??? No dipstick? No limited slip? I think you should go find an E30M3 to satisfy, that was and still is an amazing machine, and, it's a 4 banger, and the S14 is one of BMWs most famous engines to date.

The funny thing is that I never actually wanted an x35 DI turbo, despite that I've grown to like mine. But I also didn't want a detuned/neutered x28 N52. What I wanted was a 330 with the up-tuned N52, as in the 2006 E90 and the 2006-2007 E60. The 2011 F10 528i had one that was close enough with 240hp/230tq and it was marvelous. Sounded and felt great, crisp throttle response, and had a wonderful character and sound. If they had offered that engine in the E93 I'd probably have gone for that rather than the N55/335. I didn't think the de-tuned x28 N52 would have really satisfied me in the heaviest possible E93 body with an automatic. I'd gladly go for even the de-tuned N52 in a much lighter RWD E90/E92 body with a 6MT. I would have a blast winding out the engine and rowing through the gears, and the engine isn't so powerful that you can't do that without worrying about getting arrested.

A complete lack of time to deal with maintenance issues and space for DIY work are the only things really stopping me from going out and buying an old E39 or E46. Still love and adore those cars. Would love to get an E39 530i with the sport package and manual transmission. And a buddy of mine had and I once drove his E30 325i, so I know the difference in feel between those cars and today's, and it's a night and day difference. Yeah there's a lot of modern tech in the E90 series bodies, but neutering the steering with a numb electric rack and dropping the NA I-6's is like the last straw for me. I got the closest thing I could get to what I wanted. Exactly what I wanted was never available in this market.

Originally Posted by thekurgan

You failed to see my point, it is NOT better. He mixed up words like "old fashioned" with the 335.

Just reading up on P cars the other day. The majority if P cars do not have an LSD, and only people that track them get one. Same with the Elise (which will no longer be imported here due to the airbag pass expiring).


I just read another review on the new F30, and that article stated some cheapness creaping in to the interior of the F30. I felt this was as well when I saw it at the dealer the other day.

When I first saw the F30 in person, I thought it was butt ugly. I still do. The front end is hideous, and the back end looks like it's trying to be a 5 series. The only angle I actually like is the side profile.
The interior in pictures looks refreshing. In person, the materials feel cheap, and the design doesn't flow.
The cupholder cover that you pop off and stick in the glove box is a ridiculous idea, imo.

There was a moment there where I started feeling regret ordering my E91. Especially when I found out it actually wouldn't be the last BMW wagon to come to the US. But now that I've seen and experienced the new F30, I don't think the F31 is going to make the E91 green with envy at all.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

BTW, I am not so disappointed in the move toward small FI engines. Its not what I would want, but I understand the rationale. What I can't live with, and what will keep me from the F30, is EPS.

Now, I am optimistic BMW will solve the equation that returns feel and precision to their steering, but to me EPS robs the new 3 series of the essence of BMWness.

My previous car was a 2007 Toyota RAV4 Sport V6 4WD, and even it had a better EPS rack than the $50k 528xi loaner I just had! So I was like WTF, but yeah there's hope and plenty of room for improvement. I too am "ok" with the N20. Not my cup of tea either, but I'm immensely disappointed that it had to come, in the US market, at the expense of the NA I-6 engine. For a 4-cylinder it sounds and feels pretty good, but it's still a 4-cylinder and nothing like an I-6. The 2011 N52 powered 528i with 240hp/230tq managed to get 32 mpg highway EPA, so it's not like those engines aren't efficient. BMW sacrificed a whole lot just for 1 measly MPG on the 5er. If the N20 powered F30 328i is getting 34 mpg, then that same N52 would have been able to do 33 mpg.

Perhaps the silver lining here is that the auto manufacturers do take what CR says very seriously. When they speak, the auto manufacturers listen, so hopefully BMW is working right now on improvements to their EPS racks to get that traditional feel back. Even my wife is concerned, since we had been planning on getting her an X5 but were debating whether or not to wait for the new one. She loved how the X70 drove and loved the diesel too. She doesn't want an N20/EPS'd next-gen X5 if that's what they're going to offer.

Originally Posted by 07335i_sport

Just reading up on P cars the other day. The majority if P cars do not have an LSD, and only people that track them get one. Same with the Elise (which will no longer be imported here due to the airbag pass expiring).


I just read another review on the new F30, and that article stated some cheapness creaping in to the interior of the F30. I felt this was as well when I saw it at the dealer the other day.

I wouldn't even look at a post 993 Porsche, the engine quality went drastically downhill, as did the interior. VW hasn't helped infuse any $$$ into the quality either, the prices just went up