Dealer says I need a new cylinder head...thoughts?

ok,,,,makes sense

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I was thinking EGR caused carbon build up in the intake and the carbon traveled from there to the head. I could be way off but I had an EGR on my truck go bad and do exactly that to the intake(honestly did not have the heads looked at since was costing so much already). Poor combustion could of course eventually cause carbon in the head but I'd think it would take longer to happen since the combustion happens in the combustion chamber. I am though assuming the excessive carbon build up is on the intake side of the head and not exhaust. All pure speculation on my part.

In my truck I blocked the EGR. The oil stays much cleaner. Maybe something to think about when the D goes out of warranty.

One of my friends has a F350 dually that is the same year as my F250. He bypassed the EGR and coolers for it then did the programming for the ECU to accomodate for that. He gets the same mpg as I do when doing 80-85 on extended runs EXCEPT he is pulling a good 20k lbs when doing that. It helped out things a lot on his truck, if I have a second EGR problem then I am bypassing it on my truck since it is clearly under no warrantees now.

hmmm egr bypass.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/160776165019 sounds like an ebay item.

@Snipe Houston(err BMW) we HAVE a PROBLEM!! If this is an issue it should be addressed as NTSB message soon, cause a whole lot of 09 35d and X5ds will have this issue, my friend in Puerto Rico has an 09 35d and has had its share of problems with the SUPPOSEDLY EGR issue I gave him this link to take it to notice to AUTOGERMANA BMW of Puerto Rico to see if they have had same problem with other 35d or X5d

Last time I was at the dealer I was told a recall was coming up, wonder if that had anything to do with any of this or unrelated completely.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Last time I was at the dealer I was told a recall was coming up, wonder if that had anything to do with any of this or unrelated completely.

I have been told this the past few times also, although never found out what the recall was for, as of yet.


Update: Cylinder head incoming from Germany, going to take another week at least.

will you update when it comes in?

Originally Posted by wanderlust

will you update when it comes in?

Sure, will do. It is coming from Germany so they don't expect it until Wed-Fri this week.

This is really discouraging to hear and at such low milage. Clogged metering valves, carbon build-up requiring head replacement,,, oy vey....

Why didn't they just clean it like the dealers can do with the 335i? I can't imagine it was that bad at such low mileage that it would require replacing the head.

What's retail on parts and labor on this?

Originally Posted by Snipe656

One of my friends has a F350 dually that is the same year as my F250. He bypassed the EGR and coolers for it then did the programming for the ECU to accomodate for that. He gets the same mpg as I do when doing 80-85 on extended runs EXCEPT he is pulling a good 20k lbs when doing that. It helped out things a lot on his truck, if I have a second EGR problem then I am bypassing it on my truck since it is clearly under no warrantees now.

I would love to have this option for the 335d, but I don't expect anyone any time soon will develop softeware to accomodate this option.

Originally Posted by cssnms

This is really discouraging to hear and at such low milage. Clogged metering valves, carbon build-up requiring head replacement,,, oy vey....

Why didn't they just clean it like the dealers can do with the 335i? I can't imagine it was that bad at such low mileage that it would require replacing the head.

What's retail on parts and labor on this?

Do you have any details about the 335i buildup and cleaning procedure? I know that in the past few years that Chevron developed a system for back purging direct injection engines and was somehow involved(sold to/license to/or something) with BMW. When I was told about it they made it sound like this was used as some sort of routine service. The whole idea behind it was to clean out carbon buildup from the backside of the valves. I have no clue if it is something that can or is used on diesel engines though.

Originally Posted by cssnms

I would love to have this option for the 335d, but I don't expect anyone any time soon will develop softeware to accomodate this option.

Originally Posted by wanderlust

hmmm egr bypass.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/160776165019 sounds like an ebay item.

Maybe on the BMW re-programming is not even needed. If it is needed though then considering such bypasses exist on eBay then I'd think at the very least Evolve could modify their tune to compensate for such a bypass.

The big advantage we have is an entire continent worth of people who like diesel and many of whom drive diesels like ours and have with our very engine. I would imagine if there is a solution it will be from Europe first. Im sure someone knows about the EGR bypass or if it needs software. You can bet if I get this issue thats where I will look once warranty is up.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Do you have any details about the 335i buildup and cleaning procedure? I know that in the past few years that Chevron developed a system for back purging direct injection engines and was somehow involved(sold to/license to/or something) with BMW. When I was told about it they made it sound like this was used as some sort of routine service. The whole idea behind it was to clean out carbon buildup from the backside of the valves. I have no clue if it is something that can or is used on diesel engines though.

Reports are that dealers are or already have walnut blasters. There is a lot on this subject on the other forum.

e.g. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...arbon+build-up

Originally Posted by wanderlust

hmmm egr bypass.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/160776165019 sounds like an ebay item.

I did some research on this not to long ago, can't remember what came of it, think I posted on here somewhere about it. I think there were some good by pass valves and not so good by pass valves just in terms of quality, but can't remember at the momemt... In any event I contact a buyer who purchased this by pass valve for his bmw diesel to see what model car he was driving and what he needed to do tuning wise to get this installed.

Here in MD a well known DIY mechanic on e90post hosted a carbon cleaning event whereby his BMW tech friend brought out the walnut machine and the tech cleaned 4 or 5 cars for $400 a pop (about half what the dealer charges). Here's the thread, take a look at page 2 for some good pics.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669314

Originally Posted by cssnms

Reports are that dealers are or already have walnut blasters. There is a lot on this subject on the other forum.

e.g. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...arbon+build-up

Thanks, great link, so looks like mostly gas based engines there but the principle behind the build up should be the same and looks like they are tearing down the intake manifold and either manually scrubbing with solvents or using media based dry blasting to clean off the backs of the valves. Kind of irritating but the real question will be how hard it is to access the valves once the warentee is up. It might be a real issue given the turbo's, anyone know?

EDIT: Another thought, if the problem is just random things/ dust in the air sticking to the back of the valves then not having any thing to wash it off like it would in port injection, wouldent more frequent air filter change help?

same thing happened to my X5d, after replacing the turbo and a couple other parts, I was told to avoid babying the engine too much, to ride it harder. Talking to a friend of mine who's a former diesel mechanic, it's very important to run the engine hard here and there, its vital to the life and health of the engine. The Bmw SA backed up that opinion. Now everyday I am driving I give it at least one real hard acceleration.

Originally Posted by Stussy109

same thing happened to my X5d, after replacing the turbo and a couple other parts, I was told to avoid babying the engine too much, to ride it harder. Talking to a friend of mine who's a former diesel mechanic, it's very important to run the engine hard here and there, its vital to the life and health of the engine. The Bmw SA backed up that opinion. Now everyday I am driving I give it at least one real hard acceleration.

Good to know, thanks for posting that. I definitely give it a strong acceleration but who knows what the owner before me was doing. I have owned it for the past 7k miles but the first 32k was on someone else...

I don't know, I have heard SAs say that exact sort of thing for gas engines too. I often question where they gain this knowledge. But on diesels I have always noticed on the older ones if you are nice to them for a long time then have to get on it that the result is a much larger amount of soot. I always wondered if the is a fueling issue or a door build up the purging issue.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I was thinking EGR caused carbon build up in the intake and the carbon traveled from there to the head. I could be way off but I had an EGR on my truck go bad and do exactly that to the intake(honestly did not have the heads looked at since was costing so much already). Poor combustion could of course eventually cause carbon in the head but I'd think it would take longer to happen since the combustion happens in the combustion chamber. I am though assuming the excessive carbon build up is on the intake side of the head and not exhaust. All pure speculation on my part.

The places they described the carbon build-up - intake/throttle valve/etc leads me to think your speculation is right on.

The EGR is put back in before the turbo right? Me thinks the turbo's should have been looked at as well

I hate EGR too... that's why my truck no longer has it

Once the X5 is out of warranty I hope they have DPF/DOC and EGR deletes for them as well. Unfortunately I'm sure the volume won't support it.

Jay

I am not sure what you mean by the EGR being before the turbo. But also to be honest I am not sure how the specifics of the EGR system on our BMWs work. I know on my truck the way the layout is done caused for extreme gas temps and they have to use an EGR coolers. Now if those coolers are typical for all modern diesels is beyond my knowledge. I just really regret not doing an EGR bypass on my truck way back when my original cooler failed then I could avoide much later on the clogged up intake from a failed EGR.

Originally Posted by Stussy109

same thing happened to my X5d, after replacing the turbo and a couple other parts, I was told to avoid babying the engine too much, to ride it harder. Talking to a friend of mine who's a former diesel mechanic, it's very important to run the engine hard here and there, its vital to the life and health of the engine.

I have no problems in that department.

Originally Posted by wanderlust

hmmm egr bypass.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/160776165019 sounds like an ebay item.

I heard back from a buyer of this egr bypass. Granted he has a 525d, not sure how they compare technology wise, but I suspect a 2002 525d is less encumbered by all of the high-tech gadgetry found on our 335d's. In any event it sounds promising.

Here is what Niel had to say about the egr bypass....

Hi Chris,



I have a 525d Se touring 2002.



It was easy to change and I did not get any lights on the dash nor from the scanner I used after 100miles. My egr valve was stuck open and no amount of cleaning world free it up. My car has 150000 motorway miles on it and the mod sharpened up performance and I get an improved MPG from 42mpg to nearly 50 mpg at motorway speeds.... Not an imperial gallon is more than a US gallon.



If you follow the instructions it was easy to fit but lining the bolts up can be a challenge due to the tension of the pipe on the left hand side .



Hope this helps



PS I did not think the US embraced diesels?



My pride and joy is a 1974 Jensen Interceptor with a Chrysler 440 V8 Big Block..... Uk price for fuel is close to $9 a gallon



Neil

Chris, great work (again) finding out info for us d owners! I really want to learn as much as possible about the EGR bypass, as this sounds like a mod that we really need to consider if we plan to keep the car past the warranty period.