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E89 Z4 (2009 - current)

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:18 AM
gjockey gjockey is offline
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Are all 2009 sDrive35i automatics "DCT"?

Hi,

I'm looking at a few 2009 automatic sDrive35i cars and some advertise "DCT" and others don't mention anything. Was the 7spd DCT the only auto option in 2009 or did they also offer the regular 6sp auto in the sDrive35i? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjockey View Post
Hi,

I'm looking at a few 2009 automatic sDrive35i cars and some advertise "DCT" and others don't mention anything. Was the 7spd DCT the only auto option in 2009 or did they also offer the regular 6sp auto in the sDrive35i? Thanks.
6sp was and continues to be an option for the 35i--just hard to find.
The Z435is is the only E89 that comes only with DCT
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:13 AM
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Z4golfer Z4golfer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjockey View Post
Hi,

I'm looking at a few 2009 automatic sDrive35i cars and some advertise "DCT" and others don't mention anything. Was the 7spd DCT the only auto option in 2009 or did they also offer the regular 6sp auto in the sDrive35i? Thanks.
Yes, all automatic 35i models are 7 speed DCT.
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  #4  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:04 AM
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Thanks Z4golfer for answering the OP's question...
It must have been too early when I responded and I misread his question
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  #5  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:57 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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To be precise, the 35i comes in 2 manual options:

One is the 7 speed DCT "automated" manual transmission, which has no clutch pedal.
The other is a 6 speed manual with clutch pedal.


There is no true automatic transmission (manumatic, steptronic) option for the 35i, like you'd get with a 30i or a 3 series.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 04-18-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-19-2012, 03:58 PM
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mclaren mclaren is offline
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I really like the DCT. The right paddle upshifts, the left downshifts. You can also let it shift like an auto.
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:30 AM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren View Post
I really like the DCT. The right paddle upshifts, the left downshifts. You can also let it shift like an auto.
The right paddle upshifts and downshifts and the same for the left.
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
The right paddle upshifts and downshifts and the same for the left.
On 2012 models the right paddle up shifts and the left downshifts. It would be nice to have it that way I think. Seems like BMW could make it happen on previous years with a software update, obviously there aren't actual cables connected to the paddles.
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Last edited by Z4golfer; 04-20-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
To be precise, the 35i comes in 2 manual options:

One is the 7 speed DCT "automated" manual transmission, which has no clutch pedal.
The other is a 6 speed manual with clutch pedal.

There is no true automatic transmission (manumatic, steptronic) option for the 35i, like you'd get with a 30i or a 3 series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren View Post
I really like the DCT. The right paddle upshifts, the left downshifts. You can also let it shift like an auto.
Confusion in the ranks. Is it or is it not automated?

Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG) are conventional manual transmissions with a computerized control mechanism. So it follows that a manual-style transmission operated by computer is often called an automated transmission or shorted by most people to auto, automatic, and lesser used manumatics.

Maybe the "Save the Manuals" campaign was mislabeled and the battle cry should be "Save the Clutch Pedal"

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  #10  
Old 04-21-2012, 07:59 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
Confusion in the ranks. Is it or is it not automated?

Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG) are conventional manual transmissions with a computerized control mechanism. So it follows that a manual-style transmission operated by computer is often called an automated transmission or shorted by most people to auto, automatic, and lesser used manumatics.

Maybe the "Save the Manuals" campaign was mislabeled and the battle cry should be "Save the Clutch Pedal"

The DCT is not to be confused with a manumatic. They are 2 entirely different types of transmissions.

Manumatics (or whatever marketing name the mfg. gives them) are automatics that have a shift lever or paddle shifters that give the driver the option to shift the gears on their automatic transmission.

The DCT is a manaul transmission. The driver can also set it to shift in an autamated mode. The shifting speed of the DCT is much faster and smoother than a manumatic. The car shifts and feels like someone is operating the clutch pedal 100x faster than any human ever could.
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2012, 01:37 PM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
The DCT is not to be confused with a manumatic. They are 2 entirely different types of transmissions.

Manumatics (or whatever marketing name the mfg. gives them) are automatics that have a shift lever or paddle shifters that give the driver the option to shift the gears on their automatic transmission.

The DCT is a manaul transmission. The driver can also set it to shift in an autamated mode. The shifting speed of the DCT is much faster and smoother than a manumatic. The car shifts and feels like someone is operating the clutch pedal 100x faster than any human ever could.
Can you explain to me how the DCT is an manual transmission? I'm confused because there's no neutral. Yes there are clutches, but every transmission has clutches to disengage and engage gears. Please enlighten me.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:58 AM
airmel airmel is offline
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Well there is a Neutral position on the DCT shifter, but I suppose it might be argued that this is realized by simply leaving both clutches disengaged.

The way I see it, one can easily argue for the DCT being an automatic or a manual transmission. It is probably best described based on it's characteristics rather than trying to stuff it in a particular category.

The DCT has no torque converter and relies entirely on clutch action so in that sense it is very much like having two manual transmissions (one with odd gears, the other with even gears) attached in one gearbox. On the other hand, clutching and shifting can be automatically controlled, making it's behavior more like that of an automatic.

Regardless of how you look at it, the DCT is an amazing piece of engineering, and great fun to drive.
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Last edited by airmel; 04-23-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:24 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
Can you explain to me how the DCT is an manual transmission? I'm confused because there's no neutral. Yes there are clutches, but every transmission has clutches to disengage and engage gears. Please enlighten me.
It is a manual transmission with no clutch pedal.
We are in a day and age with technology where the definition of a manual transmission has been redefined. A manual no longer requires a clutch pedal to be defined as a manual.
There will still be some that will stick to the old definition and will need to be taken kicking and screaming to the realization that technology has changed the rules.

Whenever somneone asks me what transmission I have I tell them its the DCT, which is a manual transmission.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 04-23-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:39 PM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
It is a manual transmission with no clutch pedal.
We are in a day and age with technology where the definition of a manual transmission has been redefined. A manual no longer requires a clutch pedal to be defined as a manual.
There will still be some that will stick to the old definition and will need to be taken kicking and screaming to the realization that technology has changed the rules.

Whenever somneone asks me what transmission I have I tell them its the DCT, which is a manual transmission.
I get your point about technology, but it's still not clear to me. How is the DCT different than the Steptronic, which, like the DCT, can be driven in automatic or manual mode?
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:42 PM
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On the MSport Auto box in drive D it uses 7 gears and in the two Sports mode it only uses 6 gears.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2012, 01:12 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
I get your point about technology, but it's still not clear to me. How is the DCT different than the Steptronic, which, like the DCT, can be driven in automatic or manual mode?
Steprtronic - automatic transmission and technology that happens to let the driver change gears.

DCT - manual ( or semi manual) with no clutch pedal that allows the driver to drive in manual or auto mode.

The difference is the technology BEHIND the scenes. Not my specialty. In the interest of saving space I'm not going to copy/paste from Wikipedia.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 04-23-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2012, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Z4golfer View Post
On 2012 models the right paddle up shifts and the left downshifts. It would be nice to have it that way I think. Seems like BMW could make it happen on previous years with a software update, obviously there aren't actual cables connected to the paddles.

Here in the UK, it depends on which steering wheel the car has. At least on the steptronic 20i and 28i. Not sure about the DCT 35i and 35is.
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:51 PM
jparnes1 jparnes1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
Steprtronic - automatic transmission and technology that happens to let the driver change gears.

DCT - manual ( or semi manual) with no clutch pedal that allows the driver to drive in manual or auto mode.

The difference is the technology BEHIND the scenes. Not my specialty. In the interest of saving space I'm not going to copy/paste from Wikipedia.
OK, I took your advice and read a few Wiki articles. DCTs shift a whole lot smoother and faster than conventional automatics or manuals. The take home message I got was that although you get to shift manually, the DCT's computer engages and disengages the clutches for you, rev matches for you and lines up the gear teeth for you. I've driven with them and they are truly great shifting transmissions, but in my mind it isn't truly manual because of so many automated functions.
But I guess it depends on your point of view. If it makes driving more fun for you, then you've got the right machine.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:22 AM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
OK, I took your advice and read a few Wiki articles. DCTs shift a whole lot smoother and faster than conventional automatics or manuals. The take home message I got was that although you get to shift manually, the DCT's computer engages and disengages the clutches for you, rev matches for you and lines up the gear teeth for you. I've driven with them and they are truly great shifting transmissions, but in my mind it isn't truly manual because of so many automated functions.
But I guess it depends on your point of view. If it makes driving more fun for you, then you've got the right machine.
One can call or refer to the DCT any way they want (Automatic, semi-automatic, semi- manual, manual).

The most important thing is that it needs to be differentiated from the Manumatioc (or Steptronic). Most people that have not yet familiarized themselves with the technology want to group it with the Manumatics.
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2012, 10:42 AM
airmel airmel is offline
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Originally Posted by 645/333 View Post
On the MSport Auto box in drive D it uses 7 gears and in the two Sports mode it only uses 6 gears.
Not true. I have seen all 7 gears in Sport and Sport+ in my 35i DCT.

Remember that in Sport+ you have to be north of 4800 RPM to shift from 6th to 7th which would put you at a minimum speed of about 117 MPH.
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