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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:52 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Future Competition from Merc/Infiniti

Interesting how things are shaping up.

Both my brother in law and my neighbor are high level engineers at Nissan, and confirmed lots of new joint products from Infiniti and Mercedes, even sharing engines!

Also, looks like Infiniti will finally throw its hat in the BMW M/Mercedes AMG/Audi S/RS ring with its own performance variant....a 530bhp G model.

I know most of you BMW fans hate Infiniti, but its pretty interesting how they are engaging in significant joint ventures with the Germans now...and there is also a new coupe being released by Mercedes which is a cross between Benz and Nissan...

http://www5.mercedes-benz.com/en/veh...cars/a-class//


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A major redo is in the works for Infiniti's G lineup. An Infiniti insider in Japan recently spilled the beans to Motor Trend about the brand's future plans.

Motor Trend reports that the new G will go on sale in summer 2014 and will share the platform underpinning the Mercedes-Benz C-Class -- part of Infiniti's growing technology-sharing arrangement with the Daimler brand.

The new G will be a couple of inches longer and use a more muscular design, taking some design cues, particularly in the front end, from the Etherea concept car above that was at the Detroit auto show this year. The sedan model will have a lower roofline than the current model and a four-door-coupe-like silhouette. Both sedan and coupe models will return; the coupe won't arrive till 2015. And a crossover is being considered.

But the biggest news is in the powertrain department, where choices may greatly expand. Infiniti is exploring whether to bring diesel power to its U.S. lineup, by borrowing the Mercedes-Benz C-Class' 2.1-liter four-cylinder diesel engine that's available in Europe.

It's also "a foregone conclusion," according to Motor Trend's source, that the next G will offer a hybrid powertrain version of Infiniti's 3.5-liter V-6 as well as a conventional gasoline powertrain.

Also in the works is a "Super G" powered by a twin-turbocharged 3.7-liter V-6 with direct injection that will be good for 530 horsepower. The G IPL will be part of brand's new Infiniti Performance Line brand -- Infiniti's AMG-like series of models.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:04 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Infiniti can have a 1000 HP in their car and it will still be a poor man's BMW.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:26 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Infiniti can have a 1000 HP in their car and it will still be a poor man's BMW.
Ummmm, you do know the owner of Infiniti is the same company that does the GT-R, so before you write Infiniti off you do know that nothing that BMW builds can even compete with the GT-R performance wise.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:32 AM
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I'm still a fan of Infiniti. I owned a '96 G20 for ten and a half years. Up until I got my first Bimmer. But, they are definitely not BMW.

When I read the title of this thread my first thought was, "they're both losing ground to BMW at this point.". Right now Audi is the only one biting at BMW's heels. But, they have don't have the model range BMW has and they still lag far behind in market share. If they didn't have Volkswagen I'm not sure they could make it independently.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Ummmm, you do know the owner of Infiniti is the same company that does the GT-R, so before you write Infiniti off you do know that nothing that BMW builds can even compete with the GT-R performance wise.
And do you think that's because BMW doesn't know how to build a car to compete with the GT-R? Or do you think it's because BMW chooses not to build one?
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:43 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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I'm still a fan of Infiniti. I owned a '96 G20 for ten and a half years. Up until I got my first Bimmer. But, they are definitely not BMW.

When I read the title of this thread my first thought was, "they're both losing ground to BMW at this point.". Right now Audi is the only one biting at BMW's heels. But, they have don't have the model range BMW has and they still lag far behind in market share. If they didn't have Volkswagen I'm not sure they could make it independently.
Seriously are you kidding me. Audi runs independent of VW and it's profits are higher than BMW. The only platform they share is the A3 with VW Golf. Those cars aren't even the key sellers and profit leaders either. Most of the profits come from the A4 and up models which are not shared with VW.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/08/b...dis-is-better/
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:47 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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And do you think that's because BMW doesn't know how to build a car to compete with the GT-R? Or do you think it's because BMW chooses not to build one?
Doesn't matter which one. It could also be that they can't build one to compete with GT-R at that price range. It can be that if they build one then they would be in the Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo price range. The point is that they don't have one and you can make all the excuses you want but they don't have one. Period end of discussion. Comeback when they have a massed produced sports car that can compete with the GT-R. Look at the M3 GTS, $150K and not even on the same level as the GT-R.
The point is someone said that Infiniti will never build a car as good as a BMW but in fact they could if they wanted to just to rebadge the GT-R. BMW on the other hand would have to do a lot more.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:55 AM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Seriously are you kidding me. Audi runs independent of VW and it's profits are higher than BMW. The only platform they share is the A3 with VW Golf. Those cars aren't even the key sellers and profit leaders either. Most of the profits come from the A4 and up models which are not shared with VW.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/08/b...dis-is-better/
Although most Audis do not share platforms with VWs, they do share technology and components. That's not a bad thing other than some peoples perceptions. Both Audi and VW make nice quality cars and I've owned mulitple versions of both. As for market share, Audi doesn't really play much in the SUV market and doesn't have an equivalent to the BMW 1 Series. Can't we just say that both Audi and BMW make nice cars and whichever is better is up to the individual.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:59 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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I'm still a fan of Infiniti. I owned a '96 G20 for ten and a half years. Up until I got my first Bimmer. But, they are definitely not BMW.

When I read the title of this thread my first thought was, "they're both losing ground to BMW at this point.". Right now Audi is the only one biting at BMW's heels. But, they have don't have the model range BMW has and they still lag far behind in market share. If they didn't have Volkswagen I'm not sure they could make it independently.
Audi sells as many car as BMW worldwide, and I would say Audi's lineup match up with BMW's lineup pretty closely with the exception the Audi R8, BMW simply choose not to produce a supercar at this time.

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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Ummmm, you do know the owner of Infiniti is the same company that does the GT-R, so before you write Infiniti off you do know that nothing that BMW builds can even compete with the GT-R performance wise.
It is not all about speed, its about the whole package of the car. The GTR might be fast, but the interior belongs in a Nissan Altima. If BMW built a car with a interior like that, they will surely lose a lot of their loyal following.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:10 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Although most Audis do not share platforms with VWs, they do share technology and components. That's not a bad thing other than some peoples perceptions. Both Audi and VW make nice quality cars and I've owned mulitple versions of both. As for market share, Audi doesn't really play much in the SUV market and doesn't have an equivalent to the BMW 1 Series. Can't we just say that both Audi and BMW make nice cars and whichever is better is up to the individual.
I am not saying whichever is better as that imo is a personal preference. Not sure where you are reading this from my response at all.
I was just reponding to TT that Audi couldn't survive without VW which is completely false as they are highly profitable. As for parts sharing like you said is not a problem for me at all. Reason is because they also share with Porsche and Lambo. Most of the sharing is in knowledge, R&D, and purchasing power. It not like how some of these guys on this forum think that you can just take a VW part and put it on an Audi. Everything has to be customized as even the 2.0T engine from VW is different than the 2.0T engine from Audi.
Here is an interesting read.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...317-1bypm.html
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:24 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Audi sells as many car as BMW worldwide, and I would say Audi's lineup match up with BMW's lineup pretty closely with the exception the Audi R8, BMW simply choose not to produce a supercar at this time.



It is not all about speed, its about the whole package of the car. The GTR might be fast, but the interior belongs in a Nissan Altima. If BMW built a car with a interior like that, they will surely lose a lot of their loyal following.
Go to the GT-R forums and take a look around and many owners were also former owners of Porsche and M3's. When you have that level of performance at that price the interior is secondary. Seriously you can't blame Nissan for that interior when you have that level of performance at that price.
GTS at $150k still doesn't perform at that level and the interior is much worse.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:29 AM
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Wow, I couldn't have predicted this any better, it took less than 10 minutes for someone to post that an Infiniti will always be a poor man's BMW and it can never compete, "even with 1000 bhp"

Some things never get old.

I wasn't trying to compare BMW to Infiniti (god knows, there is no comparison, even though you can get a G37 with much better reliabiliyt for the price of a 4 cylinder 328).

Was just noting it is very interesting to me Mercedes is building joint venture cars with Nissan/Infiniti.

That's a pretty bold step by MB...can't remember one of the big three Germans doing a significant joint venture with the Asians like this....
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:42 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Wow, I couldn't have predicted this any better, it took less than 10 minutes for someone to post that an Infiniti will always be a poor man's BMW and it can never compete, "even with 1000 bhp"

Some things never get old.

I wasn't trying to compare BMW to Infiniti (god knows, there is no comparison, even though you can get a G37 with much better reliabiliyt for the price of a 4 cylinder 328).

Was just noting it is very interesting to me Mercedes is building joint venture cars with Nissan/Infiniti.

That's a pretty bold step by MB...can't remember one of the big three Germans doing a significant joint venture with the Asians like this....


Definitely a bold step. Not sure why they are doing it. MB could be getting nervous with BMW and Audi pulling away from them in sales possibly. Nissan and Infiniti is also faltering with their current lineup of cars.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:52 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Definitely a bold step. Not sure why they are doing it. MB could be getting nervous with BMW and Audi pulling away from them in sales possibly. Nissan and Infiniti is also faltering with their current lineup of cars.
huh? Nissan just announced 2013 Altima that gets 38mpg highway.

Altima is crushing in midsize sedan segment as of April, 2012...only 1,000 units behind Toyota Camry, and smokes Honda Accord and domestics in sales.

Second best selling midsize sedan in the country, nearly equal to Camry.

If Nissan is "faltering" with the current lineup, I guess they'll take it...

on the other hand, you are right, Infiniti is lagging.

Nissan this morning reported it has recorded March U.S. sales of 136,317 units versus 121,141 vehicles sold a year earlier, an increase of 12.5 percent, and an absolute sales record for any month in the company's history! Nissan sales also set a new sales record, up 14.8 percent for the month at 126,132 units. Sales of Infiniti vehicles were down 9.8 percent from the prior year, to 10,185 units.



1 Ford F-Series 58,061 53,272 +5.1% 143,827 126,627 +10.6%
2 Toyota Camry 42,567 31,464 +30.5% 105,405 76,821 +33.6%
3 Nissan Altima 41,050 32,289 +22.6% 96,360 69,551 +34.9%
4 Chevrolet Silverado 36,491 32,555 +8.1% 95,638 92,455 +0.8%
5 Honda CR-V 30,868 21,998 +35.3% 74,587 57,433 +26.5%
6 Ford Fusion 28,562 27,566 -0.0% 63,949 65,023 -4.2%
7 Ford Focus 28,293 17,178 +58.8% 66,043 37,071 +73.5%
8 Toyota Corolla 28,289 30,234 -9.8% 68,428 76,675 -13.1%
9 Honda Civic 28,199 31,213 -12.9% 77,169 64,968 +15.7%
10 Ram P/U 26,960 21,898 +18.7% 67,464 52,739 +24.6%
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:59 AM
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Definitely a bold step. Not sure why they are doing it. MB could be getting nervous with BMW and Audi pulling away from them in sales possibly. Nissan and Infiniti is also faltering with their current lineup of cars.
Nissan is doing fine, their new Altima especially.

Infiniti can do much better though. Nissan has the means to build a driver's car out of the G. I would love to see the G take the Caddy ATS's approach.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:00 AM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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I wasn't trying to compare BMW to Infiniti (god knows, there is no comparison, even though you can get a G37 with much better reliabiliyt for the price of a 4 cylinder 328).
Again this is personal preference but Nissan/Infiniti have not been the most reliable cars over the past few years and add to that the whole tsunami thing and I think that there will be a period where Japanese reliability will slip as there are new suppliers and a rush to get cars built which usually sacrifices reliability/quality. I remember reading that something like 4,500 Infiniti crs slated for the U.S. were destroyed. I was told to order one how I wanted it would take about 4 months.

And I love the reference to "4 cylinder 328" like it's a bad thing. I'll take the 4 turbo engine that produces more power and gets better fuels economy over the slightly smoother 6 banger any day. One area where the G series can't even come close to competiting is fuel economy. The G37 is a fun car to drive but it drinks fuel like an old muscle car.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:08 AM
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Sorry meant Nissan's Infiniti not Nissan and Infiniti.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:12 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Again this is personal preference but Nissan/Infiniti have not been the most reliable cars over the past few years and add to that the whole tsunami thing and I think that there will be a period where Japanese reliability will slip as there are new suppliers and a rush to get cars built which usually sacrifices reliability/quality. I remember reading that something like 4,500 Infiniti crs slated for the U.S. were destroyed. I was told to order one how I wanted it would take about 4 months.

And I love the reference to "4 cylinder 328" like it's a bad thing. I'll take the 4 turbo engine that produces more power and gets better fuels economy over the slightly smoother 6 banger any day. One area where the G series can't even come close to competiting is fuel economy. The G37 is a fun car to drive but it drinks fuel like an old muscle car.
You kidding me the Infiniti six banger is a great engine. May not be totally fuel efficient but will not use a significant amount of fuel more than the 328i. What is a couple of hundred to a thousand dollars more a year when buying a $50k car? The only problem with the G37 is the design could be better. Performance wise it is a decent to great car.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:16 AM
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Go to the GT-R forums and take a look around and many owners were also former owners of Porsche and M3's. When you have that level of performance at that price the interior is secondary. Seriously you can't blame Nissan for that interior when you have that level of performance at that price.
GTS at $150k still doesn't perform at that level and the interior is much worse.
The market for a car like GT-R is a niche market, not too many people are looking to buy a $100,000 pocket rocket with a interior that is a after thought. Nissan only sold 139 GT-R in the month of March 2012. What nissan should have done is make a GT-R equivlent for the Infinti line up with a up scale interior. Thats where the true value for a car like the GT-R is, the halo effect over the Infinti lineup.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:25 AM
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Again this is personal preference but Nissan/Infiniti have not been the most reliable cars over the past few years and add to that the whole tsunami thing and I think that there will be a period where Japanese reliability will slip as there are new suppliers and a rush to get cars built which usually sacrifices reliability/quality. I remember reading that something like 4,500 Infiniti crs slated for the U.S. were destroyed. I was told to order one how I wanted it would take about 4 months.

And I love the reference to "4 cylinder 328" like it's a bad thing. I'll take the 4 turbo engine that produces more power and gets better fuels economy over the slightly smoother 6 banger any day. One area where the G series can't even come close to competiting is fuel economy. The G37 is a fun car to drive but it drinks fuel like an old muscle car.
Heyyyy I own a 2011 G37 Coupe and I love it. When you buy a car like that, you buy for power and not for fuel economy, and you can get these cars with everything included for the same price of a 328i without as many packages. the 2011 328i had the same fuel economy as the 2011 G37 , but the G37 provided 100 more HP!!!! From friends who have owned Infiniti's and to reviews, the Infiniti is pretty reliable. So i went with that option.

Don't get me wrong, I love BMW, in fact i helped my mom take delivery of a F30 328i SportLine this past Saturday. I love everything about it. Had I prolonged buying a car for a year, I definitely wouldve chose the F30 over the Inifiniti.

But I now have experience with both and I must say both models are great.

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Old 04-18-2012, 08:59 AM
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The market for a car like GT-R is a niche market, not too many people are looking to buy a $100,000 pocket rocket with a interior that is a after thought. Nissan only sold 139 GT-R in the month of March 2012. What nissan should have done is make a GT-R equivlent for the Infinti line up with a up scale interior. Thats where the true value for a car like the GT-R is, the halo effect over the Infinti lineup.
Don't you worry, Infiniti will definitely come out with a GT-R performance sports car but with a nicer interior and exterior. Just a matter of time.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:08 AM
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Infiniti has such a messed up lineup right now with the G being their only good looking car. If they **** up the next gen, they're done.

Anyways, I can't believe MB and Infiniti came to this partnership. MB is on a whole diff't level of engineering, etc, but it's not like Infiniti sucks. Look at the GTR. It spanks cars double its price!
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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My wife had an Infiniti FX35 and while it had a stiff-ass ride we never had a single maintenance issue with it in the three years that we had it.

Now, personally, I think that the personal lineup is boring as hell, but the G is a great sedan. A buddy of mine is thinking of buying a G37 6MT and test drove it on the same day I did my first test drive of the new 328i. I thought that the tech and interior of the G were a little underwhelming, but performance wise it is an excellent platform.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:32 AM
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You kidding me the Infiniti six banger is a great engine. May not be totally fuel efficient but will not use a significant amount of fuel more than the 328i. What is a couple of hundred to a thousand dollars more a year when buying a $50k car? The only problem with the G37 is the design could be better. Performance wise it is a decent to great car.
Other than fuel economy, the Infiniti six banger is a great engine. I was actually referring to the e90 328 6 banger though. For some people it's no longer a 328 but a "4 banger 328" which I think is idiotic. They whine about the 4 not being as smooth but are happy with the increase in power and economy. I guess 4 cylinder is a bad word now?
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:37 AM
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There's a huge subset of the population who can't stomach the thought of a 4-cylinder engine regardless of the performance. I don't know if it's engine sound, perceived inferiority or what, but I have heard on more than a couple of occasions from different people "I will never own a four banger". Notice that they call it a "four banger" kind of like "gang banger"? A six cylinder is a "six cylinder" not a six banger.
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