Future Competition from Merc/Infiniti

Originally Posted by The X Men

What nissan should have done is make a GT-R equivlent for the Infinti line up with a up scale interior. Thats where the true value for a car like the GT-R is, the halo effect over the Infinti lineup.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

There's a huge subset of the population who can't stomach the thought of a 4-cylinder engine regardless of the performance. I don't know if it's engine sound, perceived inferiority or what, but I have heard on more than a couple of occasions from different people "I will never own a four banger". Notice that they call it a "four banger" kind of like "gang banger"? A six cylinder is a "six cylinder" not a six banger.

My last 4 cars were all 6's, but my 328's 4 is far, far superior to any of them...the combination of power and economy is amazing to me. The idle noise from outside the car or if you have windows open is the only minor downside.

Originally Posted by sr5959

My last 4 cars were all 6's, but my 328's 4 is far, far superior to any of them...the combination of power and economy is amazing to me. The idle noise from outside the car or if you have windows open is the only minor downside.

Four banger......the new F-word in BMW Motorsports

As an aside, nothing is going to cure Americans of this disdain for smaller displacement engines faster than pain at the pump, which will only increase over time, regardless of which political party occupies the White House or how much added drilling we do. Worldwide demand is only going to continue to go up, which means higher gas prices for everyone who doesn't have their fuel prices subsidized (China and India directly subsidize gas prices to stimulate their economic growth).

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

You kidding me the Infiniti six banger is a great engine. May not be totally fuel efficient but will not use a significant amount of fuel more than the 328i. What is a couple of hundred to a thousand dollars more a year when buying a $50k car? The only problem with the G37 is the design could be better. Performance wise it is a decent to great car.

What's so great about it? It's pretty much a garden variety V6 with fairly large displacement for its power output. It's very buzzy at high revs and not particularly efficient or light weight. Nissan puts a version of it in almost every vehicle they make-including mini-vans, so it's not like there's something special under the hood. I've driven the G37 extensively. Nice car, but no 3 series.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

As an aside, nothing is going to cure Americans of this disdain for smaller displacement engines faster than pain at the pump, which will only increase over time, regardless of which political party occupies the White House or how much added drilling we do. Worldwide demand is only going to continue to go up, which means higher gas prices for everyone who doesn't have their fuel prices subsidized (China and India directly subsidize gas prices to stimulate their economic growth).

And even if gas prices don't shoot up, CAFE standards here in the U.S. will!

I think everybody needs to get used to 4 cyl cars. All companies making them now for small or mid size.

Many people are averse to "change". Some are angry about it, and some are afraid (or even terrified) of it. I suppose it does not help when people are convinced that they wouldn't need to change their habits or consumption if a different political agenda was happening in Washington.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

There's a huge subset of the population who can't stomach the thought of a 4-cylinder engine regardless of the performance. I don't know if it's engine sound, perceived inferiority or what, but I have heard on more than a couple of occasions from different people "I will never own a four banger". Notice that they call it a "four banger" kind of like "gang banger"? A six cylinder is a "six cylinder" not a six banger.

In my case, it's not that I don't like the new 4-cyl 328. It's more that of the 6-cyl engines, BMW had theirs to pretty much perfection. And it was an inline 6, not that "V6" craziness you find elsewhere.

The turbocharged 4-cyl responds and drives differently from the inline 6 engine. The sweet spots are at different rpms, etc. This is not a bad thing, it's just different.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Infiniti can have a 1000 HP in their car and it will still be a poor man's BMW.

I thought the 3 Series was the poor man's BMW

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I thought the 3 Series was the poor man's BMW

CA

LOL, no, that's the 1 series. Anyone who thinks BMW only makes luxurious high performance cars needs to spend more time in europe.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I thought the 3 Series was the poor man's BMW

CA

Hahaha CA you just saved this entire thread for me. This conversation is insane.

I wonder why people can't understand Nissan makes/made really great drivers cars. Granted, my favorite is the old Skyline GT-R (R34)... twin turbo I6 (sound familiar anybody?)

I still have my y2k Maxima with 209,000 trouble free miles. Best car I ever owned as far as reliability and Nissan's v6 is a sweet engine. Just turned 20,000 trouble free miles on my 2011 328. BMW's I6 even sweeter.

Originally Posted by 07X3platinum

And do you think that's because BMW doesn't know how to build a car to compete with the GT-R? Or do you think it's because BMW chooses not to build one?

BMW has been focusing on economy cars like the new 328i. They're learning how to make a volkswagen and pass it off for $40k on unsuspecting US buyers, who remember the 3 series of old with its grippy tires, silky inline 6 cylinder engines, and bright xenon headlights.

The GT-R has truly amazing performance but I am not a fan for image reasons. It looks like a car that teenagers would try to steal. It's performance profile is closer to the Corvette in my mind - very brute and brash. I like the refinement of cars like the S4 and the new 991 porsche. I could easily drink a cup of coffee while carrying 100 mph through the apex of turn 9. No drama.

Originally Posted by jillyjellyroll

In my case, it's not that I don't like the new 4-cyl 328. It's more that of the 6-cyl engines, BMW had theirs to pretty much perfection. And it was an inline 6, not that "V6" craziness you find elsewhere.

The turbocharged 4-cyl responds and drives differently from the inline 6 engine. The sweet spots are at different rpms, etc. This is not a bad thing, it's just different.

Yes it is the loss of its own unique characteristics that bothered some people. Eventually all entry level luxury (or poor man's) cars will be alike. I don't mind change, just not change for the sake of change.

Originally Posted by jmsent

What's so great about it? It's pretty much a garden variety V6 with fairly large displacement for its power output. It's very buzzy at high revs and not particularly efficient or light weight. Nissan puts a version of it in almost every vehicle they make-including mini-vans, so it's not like there's something special under the hood. I've driven the G37 extensively. Nice car, but no 3 series.

You may not think so but don't forget the G37/G35 has beaten the 335i in a few magazine reviews, so it isn't as bad as you think.
It is cheaper than the 328i and faster. It not like it can't handle either. The interior of the G37 was arguably better than the e90 imo.

Originally Posted by westwest888

BMW has been focusing on economy cars like the new 328i. They're learning how to make a volkswagen and pass it off for $40k on unsuspecting US buyers, who remember the 3 series of old with its grippy tires, silky inline 6 cylinder engines, and bright xenon headlights.

The GT-R has truly amazing performance but I am not a fan for image reasons. It looks like a car that teenagers would try to steal. It's performance profile is closer to the Corvette in my mind - very brute and brash. I like the refinement of cars like the S4 and the new 991 porsche. I could easily drink a cup of coffee while carrying 100 mph through the apex of turn 9. No drama.

Have you driven the new 2012 GT-R? They have refined it a lot. It is actually very liveable on a daily basis. Seriously though who wants the GT-R to be so refined? Not me. As much as I like the Corvette Z06 the GT-R is no way like the Z06 it is much more refined than the Z06. The Z06 is an amazing pure raw sports car, you better know what you are doing when going all out in that car.

Infinity's are fast and reliable, Audi's are good looking cars with a lot of issue in the reliability. BMW is the ultimate driving machine with the best mix of power and handling. I notice a lot of people talking about straight line power but no one talks about the feel and the drive and taking on the curves. Nothing takes the curve like a BMW.

Originally Posted by flbm

Infinity's are fast and reliable, Audi's are good looking cars with a lot of issue in the reliability. BMW is the ultimate driving machine with the best mix of power and handling. I notice a lot of people talking about straight line power but no one talks about the feel and the drive and taking on the curves. Nothing takes the curve like a BMW.

Have you been reading the threads on e90, F10 etc.? You telling me BMW is reliable? None of the German cars are reliable.
Nothing takes a curve like a BMW?
Go read about the S4, in the current Autobild.de, it indicated cornering and steering feel is just as good as the new F30. Go read about the TTRS, R8, and the A6. Those are all Audi's that can take a curve as well if not better than any BMW.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I thought the 3 Series was the poor man's BMW

CA

Nah, just the convertibles

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Infiniti has such a messed up lineup right now with the G being their only good looking car. If they **** up the next gen, they're done.

Anyways, I can't believe MB and Infiniti came to this partnership. MB is on a whole diff't level of engineering, etc, but it's not like Infiniti sucks. Look at the GTR. It spanks cars double its price!

You are kind of contradicting yourself. Infiniti probably has greater engineering knowledge than MB. Whether they put it into their cars is another question but they don't go after the high performance sedan market like Mercedes with their AMG line. And remember, AMG was an aftermarket tuner before they were purchased by MB.

As far as Infiniti having a messed up lineup, why do you say that? The M is very good looking.

Originally Posted by flbm

Infinity's are fast and reliable, Audi's are good looking cars with a lot of issue in the reliability. BMW is the ultimate driving machine with the best mix of power and handling. I notice a lot of people talking about straight line power but no one talks about the feel and the drive and taking on the curves. Nothing takes the curve like a BMW.

I'm a big BMW fan but what you say is pretty much only applicable to the 1 and 3 series and maybe the handling of the X3 and X5 vs it's competition. The 5 and 7 series have moved towards the luxury end of the scale in their latest versions. The Z4 is more cruiser than hard edged sports car.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

Have you been reading the threads on e90, F10 etc.? You telling me BMW is reliable? None of the German cars are reliable.
Nothing takes a curve like a BMW?
Go read about the S4, in the current Autobild.de, it indicated cornering and steering feel is just as good as the new F30. Go read about the TTRS, R8, and the A6. Those are all Audi's that can take a curve as well if not better than any BMW.

BMWs and most German cars are reliable....just not Japanese car reliable. Audi had a very bad spell in the late 90's and early to mid-2000s where they were unreliable. VW seemed to have the same issue but both have apparently resolved those issues and are now good, reliable cars.

BMWs typically outhandle Audis. That is not to say that Audis don't handle well and the S4 is on par with the F30. The A4 on the other hand does not match the BMWs handling and agility. I would guess that the A4 is probably Audi's top seller. The A4 that I drove had the FWD plow feel in certain corners and was never as "tossable" as the BMW.

Again, both nice cars but the RWD based platform seems to give the BMW an edge.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

You may not think so but don't forget the G37/G35 has beaten the 335i in a few magazine reviews, so it isn't as bad as you think.
It is cheaper than the 328i and faster. It not like it can't handle either. The interior of the G37 was arguably better than the e90 imo.

Which reviews would those be? Last major comparo I saw had the "lowly" 328 beating it out. Look. like I said, I've driven the G extensively. The 7 speed auto is terrible, and acknowledged so in virtually all reviews. The interior layout with buttons everywhere is confusing. The engine IS powerful, but not refined. Like I said, it's a nice car, but the 3 is just better.