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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #51  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:00 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
this is what I got as an answer from SA:

But the rt side frame rail is what they are telling me it needs to start. Once the repair is started they will know more. It is possible that it maybe able to be straightened.
.

Aha! Possible, but how? Out o'spec mount torque or loose bolt(s) would do it. Be suspicious.....be very suspicious....
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But, hey....your insurance company should've taken this over long ago. Sorry if I missed it, but what do they have to say?

I'd ask them about having their vendor take a look before the dealer does any work, most companies having a list of prequalified shops. They have an interest in holding BMW responsible. They have attorneys.


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 04-26-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:45 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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So, I got the papers today, but did not get my car...

The furthermost measuring point on the Right Frame Rail shows -4mm, Left one shows -1mm. So, when looked at together they are withing the 3mm tolerance of each other, so highly dubious that this is causing any drift.

Reason why I did not get my car, is that when I took off, a midsection of the undercarriage armor fell off and there was a horrible grinding noise. Took it back and on the lift noticed that the front section was not installed and parts of the midsection had torn off. My SA made some calls and turned out the same guy who measured my frame, had decided not to install those parts back, not sure why. So, needed to turn around and get into a loaner again.

I asked the dealer that how should I trust this guy, if he decided to leave parts out of my car...did not get answer. I got a good look of the car, and the right framebar is neatly tucked in between a lot of suspension and other parts, all those are in tact from side and from bottom, there are no scrapes on the undercarriage and no bulges on any of my tires. There has not been any impact on anything on this car.

I also stopped by an independent body shop and they thought that very likely they are just schooing me away with my problem. They promised to recheck the frame for me, but when I asked about this at the dealer, that if this measures fine at another place then what? They really did not comment anything on that.

I have contracted an attorney on this case now. Can somebody explain me how a frame bar would bend downwards short of not rolling the car over.
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  #53  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:02 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
...

I have contracted an attorney on this case now. Can somebody explain me how a frame bar would bend downwards short of not rolling the car over.
Sounded to me it was within specs., likely out of the factory that way.
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  #54  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:06 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by boothguy View Post
And surely there's no connection to a recurring A/C problem unless there's some mis-alignment that's causing premature bearing wear to the compressor. Something is wrong here.
Not saying that is has anything to do with the AC. But my AC was also fine when it left the factory, as was my frame I am sure. But over time, something happened that caused the AC to break, so howcome folks are so sure that the frame can not have a defect or being torqued by something not in my control. That's all.
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  #55  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:08 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Sounded to me it was within specs., likely out of the factory that way.
They refused to give me a the tolerance specs, said that I have to take this up with my insurance company. There are several other points with +3mm etc. Few 0s too though.

Like I said, no accident, but they won't fix the drift now as it is caused by a bent frame. And with my luck, this is now in car fax, and trying to get that corrected down the road is gonna be impossible..
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:10 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
.

Aha! Possible, but how? Out o'spec mount torque or loose bolt(s) would do it. Be suspicious.....be very suspicious....
Attachment 322522
But, hey....your insurance company should've taken this over long ago. Sorry if I missed it, but what do they have to say?

I'd ask them about having their vendor take a look before the dealer does any work, most companies having a list of prequalified shops. They have an interest in holding BMW responsible. They have attorneys.


.
I am not sure what I would tell the insurance company, I do not have a date or description for the alleged incident. I am sure I can make one up, and get them to check it, but again, if they say it is fine does not make BMW touch it, it seems.
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  #57  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:17 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Anybody ever had their frame checked and who would know what the tolerances are?
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  #58  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:10 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
They refused to give me a the tolerance specs, said that I have to take this up with my insurance company. There are several other points with +3mm etc. Few 0s too though.

Like I said, no accident, but they won't fix the drift now as it is caused by a bent frame. And with my luck, this is now in car fax, and trying to get that corrected down the road is gonna be impossible..
If the bent frame is within specs, then it should not be the cause of the drift, or not to the point that the drift cannot be fixed.

I think more than enough people here had hinted to you what you need is ask your attorney what to do, and it is likely your attorney will ask you not to ask questions here anymore.
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
They refused to give me a the tolerance specs, said that I have to take this up with my insurance company. There are several other points with +3mm etc. Few 0s too though.

Like I said, no accident, but they won't fix the drift now as it is caused by a bent frame. And with my luck, this is now in car fax, and trying to get that corrected down the road is gonna be impossible..
Time to move to another dealership. You must get a BMWNA Field Engineer out to look at the car and preferably be there when he does it.
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  #60  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:35 PM
David Williamso David Williamso is offline
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Drift is caused by alignment, mostly camber, tire inflation or road surface. If the aligment is good a frame rail off by 3 or 4 mm is not going to cause the car to drift. I would take it to another dealer or good shop and just tell them it is not running straight and you think it needs a 4 wheel alignment, ask for the before and after alignment sheets. Then sit back and see what they tell you. If the camber is off it is not a normal service to change it on a mac strut front end but it can be adjusted if it is off.
And post the alignment numbers here with the spec for the car so we can see it.
David
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  #61  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:02 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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anon, which dealer are you usin. Dont go to Herb Chamber BMW in Boston.

Last edited by The X Men; 04-26-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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  #62  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dmatre View Post
If the problem showed up just after changing the tires to Non-RFT, wouldn't it seem likely that the problem was caused at this time (i.e. damaged by jacking from the wrong point of the car)?
I was thinking the same thing. It seems to reason since the problem started after tire replacement, something might have occurred at the tire shop. Who did you go to to replace the tires?
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  #63  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:19 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
anon, which dealer are you usin. Dont go to Herb Chamber BMW in Boston.
At this point, I am afraid no other BMW dealer is going to help him, because the decision was made his issue would not be covered under warranty.
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  #64  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:05 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
At this point, I am afraid no other BMW dealer is going to help him, because the decision was made his issue would not be covered under warranty.
Different dealers can make different decisions. They do the work and then submit a warranty claim for reimbursement from BMWNA. One dealer may think they won't get paid and another may not see a problem with getting paid.
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  #65  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:55 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Different dealers can make different decisions. They do the work and then submit a warranty claim for reimbursement from BMWNA. One dealer may think they won't get paid and another may not see a problem with getting paid.
I forgot to mention, the decision was made by BMWNA, not the dealer. There is only one BMWNA that made the decision, in part because BMWNA (not the dealer) had paid several times for the same repair already, it can't be a bottomless money pit. Even if the OP can convince another BMW dealer to have a second opinion, it is not going to be motivated to discredit another BMW dealer.

Last edited by dtc100; 04-27-2012 at 01:07 AM.
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  #66  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:30 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I forgot to mention, the decision was made by BMWNA, not the dealer. There is only one BMWNA that made the decision, in part because BMWNA (not the dealer) had paid several times for the same repair already, it can't be a bottomless money pit. Even if the OP can convince another BMW dealer to have a second opinion, it is not going to be motivated to discredit another BMW dealer.
BMWNA won't make a final call until a BMWNA Field Engineer looks at the problem.
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  #67  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:59 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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I am not sure what I would tell the insurance company, I do not have a date or description for the alleged incident. I am sure I can make one up, and get them to check it, but again, if they say it is fine does not make BMW touch it, it seems.
Tell your insurance company what you've told us; decide when things happened. Best done very soon.

Looks like your dealer is making a point of being uncooperative. So, screw 'em - proceed independently.

Did they document that parts were left off of your car when they returned it to you? Amazed they admitted it!
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  #68  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:14 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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BMWNA won't make a final call until a BMWNA Field Engineer looks at the problem.
The OP said he already contracted an attorney, if the attorney specializes in Lemon cases, then yes likely they will deal with BMWNA directly, not with any dealer. The fact the technician did a substandard job on his under panels can be helpful evidence in dealing with the headquarters.
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  #69  
Old 04-29-2012, 08:58 AM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Tell your insurance company what you've told us; decide when things happened. Best done very soon.

Looks like your dealer is making a point of being uncooperative. So, screw 'em - proceed independently.

Did they document that parts were left off of your car when they returned it to you? Amazed they admitted it!
It was the same guy who took the frame measurements, who left the front splash guard off, then that caused the midesction to tear off. I asked my sa to drive the car to make sure all was fine vefore i drive 40 miles to pick it up, he said all was fine. The grinding noise was impossible to notice...i documented this and everything else. Got the car back, with dirty fingerprints all over the liner, inside covered in dust and a fresh scratch in the rear bumber, i asked to retain the old pieces to show no sctratches to the original splashguards. I dont think there is anything wrong with the frame, but too late now, all dox are off to a lawyer. Lets see what happens next.
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  #70  
Old 04-29-2012, 09:23 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
It was the same guy who took the frame measurements, who left the front splash guard off, then that caused the midesction to tear off. I asked my sa to drive the car to make sure all was fine vefore i drive 40 miles to pick it up, he said all was fine. The grinding noise was impossible to notice...i documented this and everything else. Got the car back, with dirty fingerprints all over the liner, inside covered in dust and a fresh scratch in the rear bumber, i asked to retain the old pieces to show no sctratches to the original splashguards. I dont think there is anything wrong with the frame, but too late now, all dox are off to a lawyer. Lets see what happens next.
Are you paying this guy?
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  #71  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:04 PM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Are you paying this guy?
He is getting paid out of the settlement should there be one.
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  #72  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:24 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline
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I'm wondering if you would benefit by involving your insurance company for two reasons.

1) Maybe BMW is treating you this way because they are assuming you are lying because you have't filed a claim (I know that's not very logical but you know how these companies think when they are trying to avoid responsibility!)
2) Insurance companies are equipped to go after stuff like this and do everything they can to not pay. They have pit bulls to send after BMW and the dealer.

Just my two cents!
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  #73  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:24 AM
anon1000 anon1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
I'm wondering if you would benefit by involving your insurance company for two reasons.

1) Maybe BMW is treating you this way because they are assuming you are lying because you have't filed a claim (I know that's not very logical but you know how these companies think when they are trying to avoid responsibility!)
2) Insurance companies are equipped to go after stuff like this and do everything they can to not pay. They have pit bulls to send after BMW and the dealer.

Just my two cents!
Like the ED picture! They probably could help, but I think this lawyer is experienced and it is a low risk for me, he seemed confident that this case was worth pursuing. Reason why I have not filed a claim, is that there is nothing to file. Insurance company is in for their own benefit, they do not care if I get compensated for all this trouble or not, the lawyer while interested in himself first and foremost, has his compensation tied to the overall settlement amount. Papers are in, BMW NA has 60 days to respond.
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  #74  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:02 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Like the ED picture! They probably could help, but I think this lawyer is experienced and it is a low risk for me, he seemed confident that this case was worth pursuing. Reason why I have not filed a claim, is that there is nothing to file. Insurance company is in for their own benefit, they do not care if I get compensated for all this trouble or not, the lawyer while interested in himself first and foremost, has his compensation tied to the overall settlement amount. Papers are in, BMW NA has 60 days to respond.
Is your attorney pursuing a lemon law action? Or? Not asking for conclusion(s) of attorney-client discussions, just what the 'papers' have been filed under (lemon law, warranty failure, whatever).
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  #75  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:21 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Anon, I am sure your attorney will guide the process, but you were right not to file an insurance claim, otherwise you are basically admitting this is not a warranty issue.

But 60-day seems long. The case I was involved (not with BMW), my attorney demanded swift response before filing with the court. Be prepared for a long process, even though there is always the chance for a quick resolution.

Btw, having a lemon is not necessarily the end of the relationship with the manufacture, after my lemon case, I understood why we had to go through the process and $&@* happens, in the end we were satisfied and bought another car from that same manufacture.

Last edited by dtc100; 05-01-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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