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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #376  
Old 12-14-2012, 03:30 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by podon View Post
I just bought a Bmw 640 d. My I-step is F001-11-09-501.
What is the last ISTA/P for my car?
Thanks!
I just answered your PM on this.
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  #377  
Old 12-14-2012, 07:09 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Ironic that this thread be brought back up. Yesterday I opened a case with BMWNA regarding this issue. They have asked me to bring it back into my local dealer to see what they might be able to do.

Will keep you posted. But I'm not going to settle for "no codes no problem".
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  #378  
Old 12-14-2012, 08:38 AM
podon podon is offline
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I know the F13 was equipped with the color head up display. It was introduced on the F12 and the F13 is a later model... I don't know what happened to my car, but I hope the global upgrade will solve my problems!
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  #379  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:19 AM
Anonimac Anonimac is offline
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So from what i've read here and other forums it seems like you can't just walk into a dealership either out of band or at regular maintenance cycles and ask them to just bring the car up to all the latest software revisions, recalls, updates, SIBs, etc...

That's SUPER annoying for this car class...in fact, i'm surprised that it hasn't been engineered yet that these updates just come down on their own.

I'm considering taking over a lease on a 2011 550i M-Sport and I would definitely want the car brought up to all the latest revisions...is this something i can just do myself? Are the necessary updates files/interface/software available somewhere? (torrent, forums, Usenet, etc.)
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  #380  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:23 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonimac View Post
So from what i've read here and other forums it seems like you can't just walk into a dealership either out of band or at regular maintenance cycles and ask them to just bring the car up to all the latest software revisions, recalls, updates, SIBs, etc...

That's SUPER annoying for this car class...in fact, i'm surprised that it hasn't been engineered yet that these updates just come down on their own.

I'm considering taking over a lease on a 2011 550i M-Sport and I would definitely want the car brought up to all the latest revisions...is this something i can just do myself? Are the necessary updates files/interface/software available somewhere? (torrent, forums, Usenet, etc.)
Think about it....it takes 5 hours or so to do a complete software download. Maybe if you offered to pay, but would you pay $500?

Someone needs to pay for that full bay and the tech's time.

And to answer your question, I m not sure. Ask on the coding forum.
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  #381  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:42 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonimac View Post
So from what i've read here and other forums it seems like you can't just walk into a dealership either out of band or at regular maintenance cycles and ask them to just bring the car up to all the latest software revisions, recalls, updates, SIBs, etc...

That's SUPER annoying for this car class...in fact, i'm surprised that it hasn't been engineered yet that these updates just come down on their own.

I'm considering taking over a lease on a 2011 550i M-Sport and I would definitely want the car brought up to all the latest revisions...is this something i can just do myself? Are the necessary updates files/interface/software available somewhere? (torrent, forums, Usenet, etc.)
Updates come out near monthly. Do you really think BMW, or any other car manufacturer can keep every car current with the latest software?

These updates involve flashing new firmware on modules, which requires power on the vehicle. How do you think it is possible that this could be done on its own? If it was even possible, and a module is in the middle of updating itself, and you shut off the engine, goodbye module.

You can negotiate with a dealer at the time of purchase to have the software updated. If you assume a lease, you could ask the owner to have this done, even if it means he has to pay for it out of pocket. He may agree to it if he wants out of the lease bad enough.

Another option is to bring it to the dealer under an SIB as discussed herein, and make a case that the car suffers the symptoms described in the SIB, and you want it programmed in accordance with the SIB.

You can of course program the car yourself. You will need ISTA/P, which you can find online; although it is likely outdated as well, so you may need to buy a current version, which will run a couple hundred dollars. To use it, you will need to buy an ICOM Interface. The OEM BMW one runs about $2500, but you can find Chinese Clones for around $500-$700.
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  #382  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:08 PM
Anonimac Anonimac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Updates come out near monthly. Do you really think BMW, or any other car manufacturer can keep every car current with the latest software?

These updates involve flashing new firmware on modules, which requires power on the vehicle. How do you think it is possible that this could be done on its own? If it was even possible, and a module is in the middle of updating itself, and you shut off the engine, goodbye module.

You can negotiate with a dealer at the time of purchase to have the software updated. If you assume a lease, you could ask the owner to have this done, even if it means he has to pay for it out of pocket. He may agree to it if he wants out of the lease bad enough.

Another option is to bring it to the dealer under an SIB as discussed herein, and make a case that the car suffers the symptoms described in the SIB, and you want it programmed in accordance with the SIB.

You can of course program the car yourself. You will need ISTA/P, which you can find online; although it is likely outdated as well, so you may need to buy a current version, which will run a couple hundred dollars. To use it, you will need to buy an ICOM Interface. The OEM BMW one runs about $2500, but you can find Chinese Clones for around $500-$700.
I understand the complexity of the update, i'm just saying that it's 2012, the cars already leverage connectivity via phone/tethering, receive other updates...it's not a far stretch to write some fault condition checks that revert back changes, download only when you pull into garage and connect to your own wi-fi, download in chunks, validate hash for valid download, prompt user to connect car up to battery charger, etc... and save yourself a few FTEs at the auto shop. Lol, kinda like MS "patch tuesday"...i'm down.
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  #383  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:15 PM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonimac View Post
I understand the complexity of the update, i'm just saying that it's 2012, the cars already leverage connectivity via phone/tethering, receive other updates...it's not a far stretch to write some fault condition checks that revert back changes, download only when you pull into garstorage iage and connect to your own wi-fi, download in chunks, validate hash for valid download, prompt user to connect car up to battery charger, etc... and save yourself a few FTEs at the auto shop. Lol, kinda like MS "patch tuesday"...i'm down.
I agree that would be great, but I am just not sure it will ever be practical. I'm down with it too though if they can figure it out.
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Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-27-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  #384  
Old 12-27-2012, 08:53 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonimac View Post
I understand the complexity of the update, i'm just saying that it's 2012, the cars already leverage connectivity via phone/tethering, receive other updates...it's not a far stretch to write some fault condition checks that revert back changes, download only when you pull into garage and connect to your own wi-fi, download in chunks, validate hash for valid download, prompt user to connect car up to battery charger, etc... and save yourself a few FTEs at the auto shop. Lol, kinda like MS "patch tuesday"...i'm down.
It's sad to hear that the Ultimate Driving Machine is being compared to a $1000+ computer running MS that needs constant patches and "Transmission reset procedures" (reboot?).

It doesn't need to be that complicated to require monthly updates. There is no virus that will attack the car and there is no big changes in day to day driving conditions (not talking about the GPS Navi maps). Can't they just get it correct off the bat? Do they even have QA or QC personnel? Anyone test the software thoroughly before releasing these? Or we are guinea pigs to help them test the bugs in the software? I've seen them test driving the camouflaged cars on the street months before the official launch, so what are those people testing?

Last edited by douggie; 12-27-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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  #385  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:09 PM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Originally Posted by douggie View Post
It's sad to hear that the Ultimate Driving Machine is being compared to a $1000+ computer running MS that needs constant patches and "Transmission reset procedures" (reboot?).

It doesn't need to be that complicated to require monthly updates. There is no virus that will attack the car and there is no big changes in day to day driving conditions (not talking about the GPS Navi maps). Can't they just get it correct off the bat? Do they even have QA or QC personnel? Anyone test the software thoroughly before releasing these? Or we are guinea pigs to help them test the bugs in the software? I've seen them test driving the camouflaged cars on the street months before the official launch, so what are those people testing?
It is sad indeed, but it is a fact of life now. As Auto manufactures use more and more software in their vehicles, they are in a sense becoming a Microsoft, and in the thousands of lines of code, bugs exist that are caught and corrected. However, beyond bugs, new software is often released as it is updated to support new Chassis', new Option Codes, and new MY features, so it isn't all due to inadequate development testing.
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  #386  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:19 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
It is sad indeed, but it is a fact of life now. As Auto manufactures use more and more software in their vehicles, they are in a sense becoming a Microsoft, and in the thousands of lines of code, bugs exist that are caught and corrected. However, beyond bugs, new software is often released as it is updated to support new Chassis', new Option Codes, and new MY features, so it isn't all due to inadequate development testing.
Yes, I understand there is more and more electronics in modern day cars, but it's not an excuse. BMW is not a neighborhood garage. It's a big company and it is a premium brand.

Q3 Financial Report
http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_pro...nbericht.shtml

"Profit before tax for the period from July to September climbed by 17.6 % to 1,987 million (2011: 1,689 million), also the best performance ever recorded by the BMW Group for a third quarter. For the first nine months of the year, profit before tax came in at a similarly high level to the previous year at 6,040 million (2011: 6,044 million; - 0.1 %). The Group reports net profit of 1,289 million (2011: 1,111 million; + 16.0 %) for the third quarter and 3,915 million (2011: 4,028 million; -2.8 %) for the nine-month period."

I'm sure they can afford to hire a few more engineers to do more development testing.

There's nothing fancy about software development, it's all the same procedure. Write the code, test for bugs, fix bug and test it, repeat. The more you test, the better the code will be. Like I said, we've seen many "sneak previews" of highly camouflaged BMWs running on the streets months before the official launch. What are those cars doing on the road? For advertisement? For the the BMW staff to run home errands?

And even if they have inadequate manpower to do it, prioritize and fix the basic function first - the driving quality! Leave the bells and whistles for a later stage when they have time to fix it.

Last edited by douggie; 12-27-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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  #387  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:28 PM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Originally Posted by douggie View Post
Yes, I understand there is more and more electronics in modern day cars, but it's not an excuse. BMW is not a neighborhood garage. It's a big company and it is a premium brand.

Q3 Financial Report
http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_pro...nbericht.shtml

"Profit before tax for the period from July to September climbed by 17.6 % to 1,987 million (2011: 1,689 million), also the best performance ever recorded by the BMW Group for a third quarter. For the first nine months of the year, profit before tax came in at a similarly high level to the previous year at 6,040 million (2011: 6,044 million; - 0.1 %). The Group reports net profit of 1,289 million (2011: 1,111 million; + 16.0 %) for the third quarter and 3,915 million (2011: 4,028 million; -2.8 %) for the nine-month period."

I'm sure they can afford to hire a few more engineers to do more development testing.

There's nothing fancy about software development, it's all the same procedure. Write the code, test for bugs, fix bug and test it, repeat. The more you test, the better the code will be. We've seen many "sneak previews" of highly camouflaged BMWs running on the streets months before the official launch. What are those cars doing on the road? For advertisement? For the the BMW staff to run home errands?

And even if they have inadequate manpower to do it, prioritize and fix the basic function first - the driving quality! Leave the bells and whistles for a later stage when they have time to fix it.
Specifically in the case of the tip-in issue, I agree that this should not have ever been an issue, and that while it was an issue nonetheless, it should have been solved a long time ago. That is two strikes on BMW.

But generally speaking, I think it is simply unreasonable to expect that a car as complex as a BMW is can come to market, live out is life cycle, and never be subject to any Service Bulletin or Product Recalls. No amount of Product Development Testing will catch everything, no matter how many test engineers they throw at it. The question is really what amount is acceptable versus unacceptable, and that is purely subjective. For some, just one is too many.

It also goes without saying that just because updated software was released for a car, it does not necessarily mean that the previous software was faulty. "New and improved" Tide laundry soap does not mean the old Tide laundry soap was no good at cleaning clothes. The same holds true with automotive software.
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  #388  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:02 PM
novados novados is offline
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just wondering

did they correct this problem in f10s born 9/11 or is this something i should have fixed right away?
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  #389  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:42 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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My car has been resting at the dealer for almost four weeks now
The last two weeks or so they have been trying to update software but they have been having massive challenges with the the system that updates f10 cars for some reason they said. BMW tech support has been slow to correct whatever this issue is. I have one last module that needs to be coded.

Has anyone recently had an issue like this with there updates in the last two weeks and the dealer found a way to solve it? I'm getting a little annoyed with the very long programming delays now... Latest is to check back Monday

Has anyone else tried to have the latest updates done and had issues with the success of the programming itself?

Last edited by bmguy; 12-28-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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  #390  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:47 PM
novados novados is offline
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four weeks is a long time, hope they are taking care of the problem, when was your car built?
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  #391  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:59 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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I actually don't have a problem with the car, I had a DVD changer added, and as part of that inst all action, the car gets a new software load, which is the same one everywhere is trying to get to fix the tip in issue...

I just was wondering Sind others have been going in for this same specific update, for other reasons than mine, if there loads have been happening without issue, or if they have had issues and something special was done to get the flash done..

Don't take the 4 week in the shop as a sign of the problem with. Th car (that was order management issues getting incomplete install kits from Germany when they did my changer install only)... The programming issue they AE telling me they have had a number of f10 cars they can't not flash with the new software in the last couple of weeks..

I think my build date on the car was 11/2011 if memory serves me right, my2012
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  #392  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:12 PM
novados novados is offline
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bmguy
thanks for your info, our cars seem to be born around the same time, i won't be driving mines for a couple of months due to the weather here in the northeast, so i'll have to deal with it in the spring.
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  #393  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:55 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Is it us?

In a quick perusal of other boards it seems like we as enthusiasts are far more cognizant of coding updates/modifications and BMW's seem to conducive to that. I doubt the average driver get's into this kind of detail although I think it's great that you can find some features to turn on. Like Shawn said, it's come to the point where this would be a difficult chore for every OEM, but it seems like updates have to happen in a different way then they do now. Like all operating systems, updates are a fact of life. I think Anonimac is on to something and who knows, it may become a reality very soon. I would expect updates once a year or so to correct or improve the function of certain things, particularly with new model launches. Things like we are discussing now (tip-in, throttle response) whatever you want to call it, are impacted by how certain components function. No company will ever get it perfect or, better said, to the greater satisfaction of its customers. So all in all, a software update now and again is fine with me. Better still, I might want my car to drive differently than the average build. But I shouldn't have to try and book a few different appointments weeks out, because they "don't know how long" it might take. My care is under a recall outlined in a previous post and needs an update to correct. I haven't managed to get that done yet.

The other issue that interesting to observe, is how many modifications and tunes there are for the various engines BMW produces. I think it is great and a throwback to when Detroit would give you 6 engine options. I hope all the independents keep producing products for this and I hope BMW acknowledges that the cars are being bought by enthusiasts who want flexibility in performance. From what I can see, some of the tunes are similar to the coding modifications we've all done, it just affects how the engine works. All in all, a great enthusiast's car. I hope BMW never changes that.
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Last edited by PeterC4; 12-28-2012 at 04:00 PM.
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  #394  
Old 12-28-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Ironic that this thread be brought back up. Yesterday I opened a case with BMWNA regarding this issue. They have asked me to bring it back into my local dealer to see what they might be able to do.

Will keep you posted. But I'm not going to settle for "no codes no problem".
Needs, hope you are enjoying Houston! ...... loved the Texas culture and bravado (Texas can do ... Houston know how) .... during my stint there.

Still following this software debacle thread after dumping my F10 after 24 months for BMW local dealer and BMWNA refusal to update and address the throttle delay.

Also nixed the wife E90 update to F30 til I can see we are buying cars not buggy vaporware ....
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  #395  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:52 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Specifically in the case of the tip-in issue, I agree that this should not have ever been an issue, and that while it was an issue nonetheless, it should have been solved a long time ago. That is two strikes on BMW.

But generally speaking, I think it is simply unreasonable to expect that a car as complex as a BMW is can come to market, live out is life cycle, and never be subject to any Service Bulletin or Product Recalls. No amount of Product Development Testing will catch everything, no matter how many test engineers they throw at it. The question is really what amount is acceptable versus unacceptable, and that is purely subjective. For some, just one is too many.

It also goes without saying that just because updated software was released for a car, it does not necessarily mean that the previous software was faulty. "New and improved" Tide laundry soap does not mean the old Tide laundry soap was no good at cleaning clothes. The same holds true with automotive software.
Yes, I'm talking about the tip-in issue here. It's something that affects 99% of our daily use. If the GPS software is buggy, I wouldn't think the car is bad because these are accessories.

To me, selling us something super advanced but buggy is worse than giving us something simple yet refined. It shows that either they are incompetent or they simply do not care about what they are selling.

Like I said, the more time you test the software, the better it is going to be. I'm not sure when they start designing the next generation cars, but if they simply start the development earlier, they would have more time to test the car. Given the life cycle is about 7 years, I think they have time to push things forward.

Cars, no matter how advanced, are still machines with hardware and software. There is nothing that can't be fixed with money if the manufacturer really wants to fix it.

Last edited by douggie; 12-28-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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  #396  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:00 AM
jmarronte jmarronte is offline
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Update?

Is everyone still happy with their software update? After extended use of the car, have the throttle delay issues returned?
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  #397  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:36 AM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Originally Posted by jmarronte View Post
Is everyone still happy with their software update? After extended use of the car, have the throttle delay issues returned?
While it may not be as "crisp" as it was the day I picked the car up after having the update done, the throttle response is still 90% better than it was before the update. Response is much more predictable and consistent. This is in "normal" mode. "Sport" mode was never an issue for me with lag.
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  #398  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:03 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Global Software Update - Thoughts on Throttle Delay and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarronte View Post
Is everyone still happy with their software update? After extended use of the car, have the throttle delay issues returned?
Not satisfied. They have returned. With a vengeance.

Drove a 2013 535 with normal auto transmission. Did the same thing. So depressed, we are dumping the car. Even my wife cannot take it.


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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #399  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:24 PM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Location: Cape May, NJ
 
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Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 528i
Needs, do you have the SAT? I'm wondering if people whose cars have the SAT fared better here than those without it?
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2011 BMW 528i- Black Saphire Metallic, Black Leather, Prem. Package, Prem. Package 2, Convenience Package, Cold Weather Package, Sport Package,Sport Auto Trans, Anthracite Wood & Headliner, Xenon Lights, Split Fold-down Seats.
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  #400  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:42 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Location: Cricket City
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,686
Mein Auto: E70 & F04
Quote:
Originally Posted by romeofrosty View Post
Needs, do you have the SAT? I'm wondering if people whose cars have the SAT fared better here than those without it?
Mine had SAT and delayed terribly. Makes no difference. SAT does not actually make it shift faster despite BMW's claims and people saying it's the best $500 they spent. It's a joke.
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2008 Mercedes-Benz CLS550 Iridium Silver/Black Leather -- P2/321/881 (leasetraded 1/10)
2002 BMW 325i --Topaz Blue/Natural Brown Leather --SP/PP/HK/CWP/Bi-xenon (Sold 9/06)
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