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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 07-14-2014, 08:28 PM
EatonZ26 EatonZ26 is offline
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South African 3 Series

So I'm noticing dealers categorizing their 3 series (320i and 328i) inventory by whether or not it was assembled in South Africa. My question is that should consumers expect a discount from a car assembled in SA over an identical one assembled in Germany?
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:32 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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So I'm noticing dealers categorizing their 3 series (320i and 328i) inventory by whether or not it was assembled in South Africa. My question is that should consumers expect a discount from a car assembled in SA over an identical one assembled in Germany?
No. Why would they? I find it weird that dealers are "categorizing" their inventory this way. What does that mean?
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:40 PM
EatonZ26 EatonZ26 is offline
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No. Why would they? I find it weird that dealers are "categorizing" their inventory this way. What does that mean?
http://www.bertsmithbmw.com/new/BMW/...c10ea9b57e.htm

http://www.theautomasterbmw.com/new/...9905ff7767.htm

http://www.tomkinsonbmw.com/new/BMW/...c9ab5d83f4.htm

These are just some examples of dealers doing that. I'm not saying that cars assembled in SA are any way inferior to those assembled in Germany but given that many buy the BMW brand for the German heritage and no other BMW (as far as I'm aware) sold in the US have two different points of assembly and then the way dealers have categorized this make me think that all else equal, a buyer would more likely pick the German assembled one over the SA Assembled one.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:06 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by EatonZ26 View Post
http://www.bertsmithbmw.com/new/BMW/...c10ea9b57e.htm

http://www.theautomasterbmw.com/new/...9905ff7767.htm

http://www.tomkinsonbmw.com/new/BMW/...c9ab5d83f4.htm

These are just some examples of dealers doing that. I'm not saying that cars assembled in SA are any way inferior to those assembled in Germany but given that many buy the BMW brand for the German heritage and no other BMW (as far as I'm aware) sold in the US have two different points of assembly and then the way dealers have categorized this make me think that all else equal, a buyer would more likely pick the German assembled one over the SA Assembled one.
If you look at the way those listings are shown it's pretty clear there's something in their third party website software that's making them show up that way. I've seen this before.

There's no way a dealer is going to discount a South African assembled car. A very large percentage of North American sold 3ers are assembled in SA.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:25 PM
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I wonder what parts are sourced in South Africa? Tires and batteries? Maybe the alternator?

I know that Indian made 3 series used to have Indian sourced interior door panels in the E90, but nothing else.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:48 AM
EatonZ26 EatonZ26 is offline
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Before BMW decided to build and ship 3 series assembled from SA to the US, I'm sure someone in HQ thought about this issue of having the same car selling in a market from two different assembly points.

I would think parts sourced out be a significant amount since shipping parts from Germany to SA for assembly and then shipping again to the selling market would be expensive. The SA production is purely for cost savings (labor mainly) since the African market can't absurd the type of capacity the plant in Rossyln, SA.
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:48 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by EatonZ26 View Post
Before BMW decided to build and ship 3 series assembled from SA to the US, I'm sure someone in HQ thought about this issue of having the same car selling in a market from two different assembly points.

I would think parts sourced out be a significant amount since shipping parts from Germany to SA for assembly and then shipping again to the selling market would be expensive. The SA production is purely for cost savings (labor mainly) since the African market can't absurd the type of capacity the plant in Rossyln, SA.
Cost savings, capacity and other reasons. BMW builds cars for many markets with many variations. There is little relation between the location of the plants and that plant's local market. GM, Ford and Chrysler make millions of cars in Ontario, Canada but they are not all being sold to that market.

The bottom line is BMW AG looks at costs as a whole, not regionally when pricing cars.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:23 AM
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Cost savings, capacity and other reasons. BMW builds cars for many markets with many variations. There is little relation between the location of the plants and that plant's local market. GM, Ford and Chrysler make millions of cars in Ontario, Canada but they are not all being sold to that market.

The bottom line is BMW AG looks at costs as a whole, not regionally when pricing cars.
True but BMW also considers tax consequences. That is probably the only reason that BMW makes cars in Egypt and Malaysia.

BMW sells cars to dealers or importers. In some countries, BMW owns the importer, like in the US. It is often the importers that decide on what is standard and what is optional, as well as the price. Anyone know more?
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:10 AM
listerone listerone is offline
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No. Why would they? I find it weird that dealers are "categorizing" their inventory this way. What does that mean?
I've been to South Africa and I guarantee you that it's an astoundingly chaotic and violent place.In short it resembles,in many ways,the several Third World countries I've visited.Given what I've seen it's impossible for me to believe that the same pride of workmanship that's found in Germany,Japan or even Detroit can be found there.To me a vehicle assempled in South Africa is no different than one assembled in Mexico or China.

Thankfully my "d" was assembled in Munich.I don't know about you but I'd walk before I'd ever own a car made in certain countries,including Mexico,China and South Africa.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:14 AM
listerone listerone is offline
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True but BMW also considers tax consequences. That is probably the only reason that BMW makes cars in Egypt and Malaysia.
I can think of another reason...as you probably know there's lots and lots and *lots* of money in certain Middle Eastern countries.Saudi,the UAE and Qatar among others.That could,IMO, help explain the plant in Egypt.There's also serious money to be found in Singapore,Hong Kong,Australia and Mainland China.That could help explain the plant in Malayasia.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:40 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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I've been to South Africa and I guarantee you that it's an astoundingly chaotic and violent place.In short it resembles,in many ways,the several Third World countries I've visited.Given what I've seen it's impossible for me to believe that the same pride of workmanship that's found in Germany,Japan or even Detroit can be found there.To me a vehicle assempled in South Africa is no different than one assembled in Mexico or China.

Thankfully my "d" was assembled in Munich.I don't know about you but I'd walk before I'd ever own a car made in certain countries,including Mexico,China and South Africa.
I'm sorry but that matters not one bit. BMW has manufacturing standards and specifications in place which determine the final quality of the cars built in their plants. That is what determines the final product. There is zero evidence showing SA cars are any less reliable than those made in Regensberg, Germany.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:45 AM
AJPITT AJPITT is offline
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I have a SA build and it is exactly the same as a GER build. You would not know the difference by looking at or driving the car. BMW has no reason to offer a discount for a car made in SA just as other manufacturers do not have a reason to do so for cars that are built in Canada or Mexico. In fact, BMW is opening a plant in Mexico within the next couple of years and I bet that most 3s that are not euro delivery, will come from there into the US market.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:47 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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I've been to South Africa and I guarantee you that it's an astoundingly chaotic and violent place.In short it resembles,in many ways,the several Third World countries I've visited.Given what I've seen it's impossible for me to believe that the same pride of workROBOTship that's found in Germany,Japan or even Detroit can be found there.To me a vehicle assempled in South Africa is no different than one assembled in Mexico or China.

Thankfully my "d" was assembled in Munich.I don't know about you but I'd walk before I'd ever own a car made in certain countries,including Mexico,China and South Africa.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:48 AM
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I've been to South Africa and I guarantee you that it's an astoundingly chaotic and violent place.In short it resembles,in many ways,the several Third World countries I've visited.Given what I've seen it's impossible for me to believe that the same pride of workmanship that's found in Germany,Japan or even Detroit can be found there.To me a vehicle assempled in South Africa is no different than one assembled in Mexico or China.

Thankfully my "d" was assembled in Munich.I don't know about you but I'd walk before I'd ever own a car made in certain countries,including Mexico,China and South Africa.
Hmm, been to Detroit lately? Not exactly paradise. Good job using generalities and stereotypes to base your decisions on. We all know absolutely nothing good could possibly come out of those countries.

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I have a SA build and it is exactly the same as a GER build. You would not know the difference by looking at or driving the car. BMW has no reason to offer a discount for a car made in SA just as other manufacturers do not have a reason to do so for cars that are built in Canada or Mexico. In fact, BMW is opening a plant in Mexico within the next couple of years and I bet that most 3s that are not euro delivery, will come from there into the US market.
+1. I would actually say my SA 335 xDrive build has a tighter interior than my German built 328 xDrive did. But, I'll concede that my anecdote means nothing as there many factors at play besides where the car is built.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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+1. I would actually say my SA 335 xDrive build has a tighter interior than my German built 328 xDrive does. But, I'll concede that my anecdote means nothing as there many factors at play besides where the car is built.
I've been several reports of SA build cars being better than German builds. This was more than 10 years ago, but in 2002, the Rosslyn SA plant was awarded the Gold Plant Quality Award from J.D. Power and Associates, while the Munich plant received silver.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:23 PM
EatonZ26 EatonZ26 is offline
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I think it is interesting to highlight why dealers are separating SA built ones with the Germany built ones. What would be the motivation to do this if not something the dealers are seeing from their customers. Unfortunately, the majority of BMW buyers are not "festers" who pay attention to how their car actually perform or what award the SA plant won. They buy BMW for its image and association and to these people, I would think built in SA is a no go.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:38 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by EatonZ26 View Post
I think it is interesting to highlight why dealers are separating SA built ones with the Germany built ones. What would be the motivation to do this if not something the dealers are seeing from their customers. Unfortunately, the majority of BMW buyers are not "festers" who pay attention to how their car actually perform or what award the SA plant won. They buy BMW for its image and association and to these people, I would think built in SA is a no go.
As said in post 4 above, it seems there is a glitch in the software that is highlighting the place of build. Nothing more and 99% of their customers would never even think to ask where their BMW's are built. Most don't know that the X3 is made in the US.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:42 PM
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Must we have these South African built 3-series threads constantly?
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:58 PM
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Must we have these South African built 3-series threads constantly?
Just wait until we start getting San Luis Potosi 3 series or Shenyang 3 series. This place will implode
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:22 PM
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Hmm, been to Detroit lately? Not exactly paradise. Good job using generalities and stereotypes to base your decisions on. We all know absolutely nothing good could possibly come out of those countries.
I went to the Detroit area 2 weeks ago for a mini high school reunion in Grosse Pointe. I had not been back since 1976 and was pleased that the area did not look like the pictures I've been seeing posted lately on the Internet. The Grosse Pointe area is alive and well and actually looks prosperous. This area had many auto manufacturer and auto supplier executives living there back in the day and looks like they still do. Zora Arkus-Duntov (now deceased), the father of the Corvette, lived a couple of blocks from our house.

Driving through Detroit on I-94, the downtown portions of the city and around the car plants look much better than stories I've read. I would certainly not compare one of our US cities like Detroit to that of a third world country like South Africa.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:30 PM
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If anyone has toured a BMW assembly plant you cannot help but see the cars are mostly built by robots.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:44 PM
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I went to the Detroit area 2 weeks ago for a mini high school reunion in Grosse Pointe. I had not been back since 1976 and was pleased that the area did not look like the pictures I've been seeing posted lately on the Internet. The Grosse Pointe area is alive and well and actually looks prosperous. This area had many auto manufacturer and auto supplier executives living there back in the day and looks like they still do. Zora Arkus-Duntov (now deceased), the father of the Corvette, lived a couple of blocks from our house.

Driving through Detroit on I-94, the downtown portions of the city and around the car plants look much better than stories I've read. I would certainly not compare one of our US cities like Detroit to that of a third world country like South Africa.
Maybe you need to look around a little harder. So many people have left means that Detroit has one of the highest abandoned building rates in the country. They are demolishing many of them and thinking about turning parts of the city back in to farm land or a type of prairie. They also have some of the highest unemployment/poverty/crime rates in the country. They also declared bankruptcy last year.

I applaud some of the car companies re-investing in the area, especially Ford with the famous River Rouge plant. Hopefully they can start turning it around soon. Point being is all is not rosy here. I bet South African cities such as Johannesburg have their problems, but are just as modern and comparable to some U.S. cities.

Edit: Check out these stats. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-1...ry?id=19710933
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:52 PM
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Maybe you need to look around a little harder. So many people have left means that Detroit has one of the highest abandoned building rates in the country. They are demolishing many of them and thinking about turning parts of the city back in to farm land or a type of prairie. They also have some of the highest unemployment/poverty/crime rates in the country. They also declared bankruptcy last year.

I applaud some of the car companies re-investing in the area, especially Ford with the famous River Rouge plant. Hopefully they can start turning it around soon. Point being is all is not rosy here. I bet South African cities such as Johannesburg have their problems, but are just as modern and comparable to some U.S. cities.

Edit: Check out these stats. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-1...ry?id=19710933
That's my point about Detroit, in that it did not look as dire as what I've been reading, fortunately for Detroit. It's not what it was when I lived there from 1969 to 1972, but still.

Strange thing to say in a BMW Forum, but it was nice to see that there were very very few foreign cars of any brand driving around, even in the Grosse Pointes.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:00 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Maybe you need to look around a little harder. So many people have left means that Detroit has one of the highest abandoned building rates in the country. They are demolishing many of them and thinking about turning parts of the city back in to farm land or a type of prairie. They also have some of the highest unemployment/poverty/crime rates in the country. They also declared bankruptcy last year.

I applaud some of the car companies re-investing in the area, especially Ford with the famous River Rouge plant. Hopefully they can start turning it around soon. Point being is all is not rosy here. I bet South African cities such as Johannesburg have their problems, but are just as modern and comparable to some U.S. cities.

Edit: Check out these stats. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-1...ry?id=19710933
We are getting OT here but as I live just outside Detroit I can verify that most of what you say is true. Flight to the suburbs is the cause for the population drop in the city. The metropolitan area is about 4 million. However there are plenty of positive attributes to the current city. I won't get into this but you can look it up. It's a city on the rebound but does not aspire to once again house 1.8 million people.

One more point. The US auto companies are doing very well and the Michigan economy is in pretty good shape.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:52 PM
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We are getting OT here but as I live just outside Detroit I can verify that most of what you say is true. Flight to the suburbs is the cause for the population drop in the city. The metropolitan area is about 4 million. However there are plenty of positive attributes to the current city. I won't get into this but you can look it up. It's a city on the rebound but does not aspire to once again house 1.8 million people.

One more point. The US auto companies are doing very well and the Michigan economy is in pretty good shape.
Hopefully it does keep on the upswing, but I think you would agree there is a long way to go. I just looked up crime rates and Detroit is considered by some sources to be as high as the 24th most dangerous city in the world. These were off of 2013 statistics.

My point is these threads always devolve in to absurd generalities and very thinly veiled xenophobia or outright racism. I am a proud American, but I also don't like to point fingers when we have plenty of our own messes to clean up here. In fact, it is embarrassing that we have let so many of our cities fall to the state they are in now.
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