Bmw or audi?

Guys,

I've been toying with replacing my two SUVs (2006 Volvo XC90 T5 and 2008 Tahoe LT) for a BMW X5d or the Audi Q7 TDI.

Nobody needs to sell me on the diesel choice, that's a given.

I need a 3rd row option and would like to have enough room for road trips with family of 4 with an occassional 5th or 6th passenger. All the SUVs give up any storage with the 3rd seat in place. I'm pretty spoiled by the space in my Tahoe with 3rd seats removed, but find that we really only use it for the occasional raod trip perhaps 2 or 3 times per year. The Volvo doesn't have the 3rd row option and also has plenty of usable trunk space for trips, grocery shopping, etc...

I was pricing out new BMW and Audis, with similar options, and it is clear BMW is not offering a 2013 Diesel option (at least I didn't see it), whereas Audi is offering the Q7 and soon the Q5 (too small for my needs).

On pricing through USAA I can get about $10k off MSRP on the 2012 BMW X5D, with a final price well outfitted of around $61k. The similar Audi Q7 is coming in at around $63k with a very modest discount.

I know the BMW comes with 4 year 50k service plan, which is a plus over the Audi.

My concern is that I'm not getting the feeling that BMW is not truelly comitted to the diesels here in the USA, whereas Audi seems to be full steam ahead.

I like both vehicles for looks and technology. The BMW has a more powerful engine and the Audi Q7 has a bit more space which I like.

Anyone out there have any opinions about which way I should go?

Do people think Audi buyers are just more comfortable with diesels? Maybe because they are often 'graduating' from VW?

I find it curious that Audi and MB are more hung-ho when it comes to diesels in the USA than BMW seems to be.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

Do people think Audi buyers are just more comfortable with diesels? Maybe because they are often 'graduating' from VW?

I find it curious that Audi and MB are more hung-ho when it comes to diesels in the USA than BMW seems to be.

I find it curious about Audi but with MB heck they have been selling diesels here in the States for a number of decades now. My guess with Audi is it is the "graduating" from VW deal.

As far as an X5d v. Q7 and coming from a Tahoe, I'd think the Q7 would offer more the size someone is used to. I say go look at them in person and bring a bunch of crap to put inside to see just how well they fit your needs. Having rented Tahoes and been in friends Q7s it seems like neither really has much storage space when using the third row seating. How much room does an X5 have with a third row seat installed?

If I was picking between the two options and it was the secondary(car I don't drive everyday) then it would be the Q7 for the added space during trips. Only reason I could justifiably buy a mid-large sized SUV is if I were to actually use it on the 4-5 road trips I do a year over just renting a vehicle. Since there are 5 people in my family and never know when others will be with us then the 3rd row seating or whatever it takes to legally sit 6 people would be a preference of mine. But if I am going on a road trip with 5 people then I am going to want to carry the luggage for 5 people too and not on the roof hopefully.

If I was picking and it would be my primary car then I'd probably go with the more powerful choice and just think in the back of my head when I need something bigger I will just rent it. Sounds like you only need the extra space a handful of times per year. So really you could take the approach I take currently which is rent a Tahoe, Suburban, or mini van for those trips. Seems almost senseless to own a big vehicle that never really is needed, even though I am guilty of that myself.

I found that while the Q7 is bigger, the inside seemed cramped. I didn't like how the rear cargo area was raised seemingly taking away a lot of usable space. I do think that a third row in the Q7 is probably going to give you more room than the X5 with a 3rd row. When it came down to buying an suv with a third row we chose the Accra MDX for the wife. It has a 3rd row that is usable and still has a bit of room in the back for storage, but not much. It doesn't come close to the fuel mileage of one of the these two other cars with a diesel. A great mid sized suv with a great 3rd row and storage to boot is the line up from GM the nicest being the GMC Arcadia Denali. I know that line up can't touch the luxury of the Audi or BMW, but have the functionality and room you want.

I road in some GM SUV the other day and the thing was like being inside a cave. It had three rows of seat and a ton of room but the name is slipping my mind right now. My friends wife ended up going to the MDX after looking at all the others they just liked it the most for their needs and they were looking at Audi, BMW, MBZ and who knows what else.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Guys,

I've been toying with replacing my two SUVs (2006 Volvo XC90 T5 and 2008 Tahoe LT) for a BMW X5d or the Audi Q7 TDI.

Nobody needs to sell me on the diesel choice, that's a given.

I need a 3rd row option and would like to have enough room for road trips with family of 4 with an occassional 5th or 6th passenger. All the SUVs give up any storage with the 3rd seat in place. I'm pretty spoiled by the space in my Tahoe with 3rd seats removed, but find that we really only use it for the occasional raod trip perhaps 2 or 3 times per year. The Volvo doesn't have the 3rd row option and also has plenty of usable trunk space for trips, grocery shopping, etc...

I was pricing out new BMW and Audis, with similar options, and it is clear BMW is not offering a 2013 Diesel option (at least I didn't see it), whereas Audi is offering the Q7 and soon the Q5 (too small for my needs).

On pricing through USAA I can get about $10k off MSRP on the 2012 BMW X5D, with a final price well outfitted of around $61k. The similar Audi Q7 is coming in at around $63k with a very modest discount.

I know the BMW comes with 4 year 50k service plan, which is a plus over the Audi.

My concern is that I'm not getting the feeling that BMW is not truelly comitted to the diesels here in the USA, whereas Audi seems to be full steam ahead.

I like both vehicles for looks and technology. The BMW has a more powerful engine and the Audi Q7 has a bit more space which I like.

Anyone out there have any opinions about which way I should go?

My suggestion is a contrarian choice and it is based on my feelings that the x5 and Q7 are both too small for long road trips. If you must have a diesel I strongly suggest the MB GL350 bluetec. The price is very similar to the x5 and the Q7, but you get a much larger and more practical SUV. Take a look at one and you will see why I say this.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

My suggestion is a contrarian choice and it is based on my feelings that the x5 and Q7 are both too small for long road trips. If you must have a diesel I strongly suggest the MB GL350 bluetec. Take a look at one and you will see why I say this.

I know someone that got one of these when they retired and specifically for road trips with the grandkids. Those things seem much bigger inside than outside. I'd say somewhere between a Tahoe and Suburban. But also even more money to get than an X5 or Q7.

Bmw is not committed to the diesel???
Look in Europe 80% diesel bimmers and they're doing great. X5 looks much better and handles like a dream. Audi q7 is just an overpriced vw Tuareg.

I'm in Europe for 3 weeks and it is true that there are as many, if not more diesels on the road than gas powered vehicles. However, I question BMW's commitment to diesels in the US. They have not sold real well and the service departments at many dealers seem unfamiliar with them.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I know someone that got one of these when they retired and specifically for road trips with the grandkids. Those things seem much bigger inside than outside. I'd say somewhere between a Tahoe and Suburban. But also even more money to get than an X5 or Q7.

Not really. The GL350BT starts at 62k and can be had well eqipped for 67k minus some discounts it would not be much more than the x5 and Q7, but it is a much larger car. When you take size into the equation you get more for your money with the GL.

Originally Posted by rmorin49

I'm in Europe for 3 weeks and it is true that there are as many, if not more diesels on the road than gas powered vehicles. However, I question BMW's commitment to diesels in the US. They have not sold real well and the service departments at many dealers seem unfamiliar with them.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Bimmer App

That right there is a very big factor for me. But I could seer the counter argument of if someone presently owns one and has great service experiences. But then I'd question if the dealer ever had to diagnose/fix something diesel related v. just maintenance.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Not really. The GL350BT starts at 62k and can be had well eqipped for 67k minus some discounts it would not be much more than the x5 and Q7, but it is a much larger car. When you take size into the equation you get more for your money with the GL.

Interesting because I only have shopped them used and they were around the price you are mentioning for new. Probably difference in options. Before I got the BMW the GL was what I wanted but I never seriously shopped them at dealers.

I had a GL450 for a 51 month lease and I was sad to see it go. Everyone who rode in it couldn't get over how smooth and quite it was. It wasn't an S"A"V, but it was a very nice way to haul people and cargo on long trips. Since 2013 is a redesign, there might be some good deals on the 2012s in the near future.

What is a S"A"V?

Originally Posted by Snipe656

What is a S"A"V?

Sport activity vehicle which is is what BMW calls the x3 and x5.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Sport activity vehicle which is is what BMW calls the x3 and x5.

Okay. They all look like trucks with camper tops to me though.

As much as its possible to prioritize and categorize what will be best on paper. I find that the test drive makes the real difference in vehicle choice.

Flyingman, like Alpine said, I would give the GL a look. The X seems the smallest of the X, Q7 then GL crowd. The 3rd seat really isn't much of a seat...

@Flyingman I test drove a used MB GL and man was it huge with all its toys in it, but for a single man it was to much for me. I suggest you look at a used MB and go for it, the other SAV/SUV do not have the space "Comparo" to this behemuth. If It were my choice I sadly(sorry guys Im a Bimmer guy) would take the MB over the X5d, remember BMW charges extra for the third row if not mistaken!!

Take a look at the Buick Esclade. The "luxo" version of the GM triplets. Very nice machine with plenty of third row room. Worth checking out if only to tell you "how much better the (fill in the blank) is" -- or not. Be careful though, you might wind up buying one. For diesels, the only domestic to offer them next year will be the Jeep GC and probably the year after than the Durango. Good luck!

@UncleJ the jeep should be available this summer the way I understand it

If you need a third row and storage another option I've not seen mentioned is the Rover LR4. Unfortunately it has no diesel option in the US (supposed to be coming in the next couple of years) which sucks but, I'd still give a look when you start shopping. I preferred it over the GL and the Q7. It still has a significant trunk even with the third row seating and actually drives pretty nice IMO. You can also get a loaded one for somewhere between $56-60K which will offset a lot of fuel inefficiency.


That said I'd probably go with the X5 and just rent a minivan for the few road trips you take with more than 4 people. Besides I actually enjoy having someone else vehicle on vacation. No worries about parking, kids spilling stuff, etc...

OK, lots of good suggestions guys.

I'll stay with a Diesel as a personal choice, so non-diesel options are off the table. Quickly narrows down the list.

I've always liked the looks of the LRs, but again no diesel option in USA, and I remain concerned about their reliability.

I guess my main point here is if BMW is going to stick with diesel options here in US or not? They cut the 335D from the 2012 line up and looks like the same for the X5D in 2013. So they have no new US Diesel Options as best I can tell.

I don't really want to buy the last model year Diesel from BMW, even though I'm sure it would be a great vehicle.

That seems to push me towards the Audi or MB options.

The Audi Q7 I did test drive back in 2009 and was generally pleased with it, but at the time was really more in need of a smaller commuter sedan. I've never given MB a close look, but now I will.

Thanks guys.

No one can say for certain if BMW is dedicated to diesels in the US. Mercedes always has been and sure looks like Audi is.

Another thing to consider is that even if BMW doesn't continue to offer diesels they will still support them parts-wise and you may also run into a situation like the V10 toureg where once it is no longer available it will still be desirable to a group of people who know what it is.

Axel, thanks -- that was my understanding as well. I will be very interested to read the reviews on the new Jeep GC oil burner.