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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #26  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:09 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is online now
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BMW vs. Audi diesel.

[QUOTE=Snipe656;6802735]I road in

"Road in"?

Hmmm.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:57 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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[QUOTE=Runon MD1;6817148]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I road in

"Road in"?

Hmmm.
So sorry but English is not my first language and 90% of my forum postings are done via my iPhone. But let me ask you this, did you understand what I was trying to say and you are just being the English Police or was the post so confusing that you had no idea what I was trying to say?
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  #28  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:03 AM
DnA Diesel DnA Diesel is offline
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[QUOTE=Snipe656;6817290]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runon MD1 View Post

So sorry but English is not my first language and 90% of my forum postings are done via my iPhone. But let me ask you this, did you understand what I was trying to say and you are just being the English Police or was the post so confusing that you had no idea what I was trying to say?
Just a troll, Snipe. I wouldn't lose sleep over him, We knew what you meant.

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  #29  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:17 PM
billj214 billj214 is offline
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Just my cents,

I would have to agree on the Land Rover LR4 option, I currently own a LR3 and a BMW 335d, prior to buying my LR3 I test drove the XC90, MDX, X5 and Tahoe, the LR3 has more interior room, 7 seats for full size adults, 4X4 unmatched by any brand including Jeep, drives like a Cadilac even off roading, has all the convenience and luxury options found in BMW or Audi. The only drawback is there is no diesel options in the US but when weighing the options I would not buy anything else. Make sure you at least test drive one prior to making any decisions and if you ever decide to buy one make sure to include the rear locker option, the dealer will say you dont need it but it has saved me from geting stuck many times.

Good luck.
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  #30  
Old 06-02-2012, 04:55 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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As poor as BMW reliability is, the experience of my friends over the years is that Audi is much worse. I do not even consider purchase of an Audi simply because every one of my friends with an Audi (about six in the past ten years) all had chronic problems the dealers could not fix.

Yeah, I know it is a small sample size, but 6 out of 6 is enough for me to mark Audi off my list of possibilities.
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  #31  
Old 06-02-2012, 05:45 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I have been thinking the same thing about Range Rovers. I know a lot of people that have owned them and they all had big problems with them. Seemed like they were good for about up to when the warranty runs out mileage wise.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2012, 06:39 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I have been thinking the same thing about Range Rovers. I know a lot of people that have owned them and they all had big problems with them. Seemed like they were good for about up to when the warranty runs out mileage wise.
Yes...I have heard this and it is a concern of mine given that I am shopping the Range Rover Supercharged. However, the runner up is the MBZ GL550 and that is not much better on the reliability front.
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  #33  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:19 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Have had nothing but good experiences with Audi so they are always at the top of my list. The Range Rover however scares me. Unless I want a "new best friend" at the Service Center I would avoid them. They seem to be trouble prone right out of the gate, then after awhile things get sorted out and they are fine but then later on the "big" trouble starts (i.e. air suspension etc) and by then you are out of warranty and the "extended warranty" for whatever reason doesn't cover all you thought it would. Of course this is all anecdotal from friends that have them, but for whatever reason still love them. Have driven an LR3 in the mountains and found it (as advertised) superb off road, but I have to say, no better than a properly fitted Jeep GC and not as good as a Wrangler Rubicon -- but then a Defender probably would be, if we could get them here. All of course are better off road than the X5, or Q7 which were never intended to go there.

Last edited by UncleJ; 06-03-2012 at 07:21 AM.
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  #34  
Old 06-03-2012, 09:10 AM
billj214 billj214 is offline
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My LR3 is a 2005 which I bought in 05, so far the service which has been done over the years was minimal and mostly to fix a few "first model year" problems.
I am a member of a land rover club and from the opinion of most of the club is that the newer Land Rovers and Range Rovers have none of the problems which plagued Land Rover over the years. I would say ever since Ford rebuilt Land Rover fabrication process and factories the majority of issues are gone.
However if you have a vehicle that costs $50k or more it is likely going to cost more to repair over time so you definately want the extended warranty. I did buy this LR3 knowing I would spend some time in the repair shop but it's been all basic items with normal wear such as - 2 shocks, 2 batteries, all rubber bushings, brakes, etc. and I off-road more than 10x a year.
I also just saw the new RR sport supercharged in the dealership and fell in love, absolutely gorgeous car. I would say sitting next to any Audi or X5 makes them look like tonka toys.
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  #35  
Old 06-03-2012, 03:42 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I have been thinking the same thing about Range Rovers. I know a lot of people that have owned them and they all had big problems with them. Seemed like they were good for about up to when the warranty runs out mileage wise.
Many people on this forum think an expensive car should be more reliable than an inexpensive car. (People say "I paid 80K for this car and it stalled.") I don't think statistics support this. Expensive cars often introduce new features that are not found on cheap cars until several years later. If you buy a high-end car you will get great new features but you need to accept the fact that they are not tested in real world conditions. Solution: either buy a cheaper car or buy a used (CPO) of the car you lust after.
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  #36  
Old 06-03-2012, 04:13 PM
billj214 billj214 is offline
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Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Many people on this forum think an expensive car should be more reliable than an inexpensive car. (People say "I paid 80K for this car and it stalled.") I don't think statistics support this. Expensive cars often introduce new features that are not found on cheap cars until several years later. If you buy a high-end car you will get great new features but you need to accept the fact that they are not tested in real world conditions. Solution: either buy a cheaper car or buy a used (CPO) of the car you lust after.
I don't typically pay attention to comments that state generalizations without any facts unless its strictly an opinion. The statement that more expensive cars break down may be true but not likely true for all cars, also the statement it costs more to fix would be something I think we can all agree on!
Anyone that owns an expensive car typically also can afford the extra warranty and will buy it if they intend on keeping the car for a long time.
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  #37  
Old 06-04-2012, 05:08 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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Let the truth be known if you buy an expensive car wait for expensive repairs thats all to it. Rovers I was told by my mechanic who deals with them quite often are ok but tend to break down easily down here in Puerto Rico even though the Rover is intended to be beaten like a step child. I personally would love to have an LR with DIESEl remember they were the one of the first to tour AFRICA back in the days and I had a friend who had an old and original LR, and to this day he beats his head to the ground for selling it, he stated it was the best off road vehicle he's ever had!!!
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  #38  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:40 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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I also have avoided owning a LR in the past because of the reliability issues you hear so much about but, for some reason much like the G wagen I just can't stop liking them. Every time it comes time for a new car we go to LR and always leave saying "I'd buy one... if I hadn't heard so much about the reliability issues."

That said I think I'm finally past that. I've noticed for a vehicle that supposedly has tons of problems you still see a lot of the older ones on the road. Not sure if that is a testament to how much the owners love them or an indication that the problems they have are exaggerated. I've seen a few Discos/LR3 around here done up in full off-road prep and I really want either on of those or a G500/G550 next.

Last edited by hotrod2448; 06-04-2012 at 06:43 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:48 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I know someone with an olde CDI GL and had next to know issues with it. Of course that is one out of many do may say nothing. I really like the GL but guess I should research their problems.
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  #40  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:29 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Hmm...I am shocked to see so many diesel owners that are interested in or are shopping the GL and the Land Rover products. I have talked to a few Range Rover owners who have owned recent versions 2005 to present and the general consensus among them is that Land Rover has been improving quality year over year since BMW purchased the brand way back. The current advice is to buy a Range Rover built after 2007. It seems, based on my small sample of owners, that the 2008 and later batches are pretty reliable. I have talked to people who have around 60k miles and less so keep in mind that none of my people have 100k or more becaue their cars are too new. My research indicates that the Range Rover problems are pretty much centered around suspension parts needing replacement because they just wear out from the complexity built into the suspension. Expect shocks and struts to be replaced every so often and expect to have to replace the suspension module the lowers and raises the car. All agree this stuff will wear out and, if you keep the OEM wheel sizes, you should go 40-50k miles before replacement. Replacement of shocks and struts per end is going to be around 1200-1500 at the dealer with OEM parts. Some guys are buying parts online and getting it down from that number to a quarter of that. Not sure if that is a good idea, but the option is there. Guys who upgraded to 22 inch wheels seem to notice their suspension wears out faster and I suppose it is possible that the bigger wheels transmit more road force to the suspension and that increases the rate of wear. Now, talking to people who have GL's say they have problems with the MBZ automatic leveling suspension and that wears out as well. Seems that it is not as frequent as the Range Rover, but the replacement cost is actually more. I am being told $1500-$2000. My personal feeling is that the Range Rover is in its last year of production for the current body and as such the 2012 is probably going to be as good as it gets (I am not considering CPO for this car). I am leaning hard toward the Range Rover because the GL just does not have the off road capability that the Range has and the GL is now very close to Range money without any of the abilities the Range has. With the Range I can see what I am spending my money on and with the GL I feel like I am getting a big and overpriced ML (I have owned ML's in the past so I know all about them).
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  #41  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:30 AM
boooomer boooomer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
As poor as BMW reliability is, the experience of my friends over the years is that Audi is much worse. I do not even consider purchase of an Audi simply because every one of my friends with an Audi (about six in the past ten years) all had chronic problems the dealers could not fix.

Yeah, I know it is a small sample size, but 6 out of 6 is enough for me to mark Audi off my list of possibilities.
With the exception of my '90 v8q, I've had very good luck with my Audis.

The conventional wisdom with any manufacturer is to stay away from a new model in its first year in production. And because of the many unique req'm'ts of US models, I would add to try to avoid cars in their first year imported to the US.
This is born out with my '07 A3 - which was in it's second year of production in the US. Mine has been trouble free and a GREAT car. But The '06 A3 was more problematic as it was it's first year in the US but had several years of production under its belt in Europe. My source for this is my own experience & Consumer Reports which offer very strong opinions on the A3.

My '90 V8q had 2 strikes against it - first year intro to the US and it had many engineering "firsts" which were great in theory, but wildly expensive to maintain. It was a great car and has a cult following by folks who have the patience and expertise to work on the car.
As tempting as the new Audi TDIs about to be introduced to the US next year, I would be wary or at least recognize the importance of an extended warranty. It will be interesting to see how the new '12 TDI Passats do. Maybe VAG has gotten past this issue. Time will tell.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule of thumb - for instance, the BMW '09 D's appear to be doing fine.
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:33 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
I also have avoided owning a LR in the past because of the reliability issues you hear so much about but, for some reason much like the G wagen I just can't stop liking them. Every time it comes time for a new car we go to LR and always leave saying "I'd buy one... if I hadn't heard so much about the reliability issues."

That said I think I'm finally past that. I've noticed for a vehicle that supposedly has tons of problems you still see a lot of the older ones on the road. Not sure if that is a testament to how much the owners love them or an indication that the problems they have are exaggerated. I've seen a few Discos/LR3 around here done up in full off-road prep and I really want either on of those or a G500/G550 next.

Something to keep in mind. The older Land Rovers are relatively inexpensive to repair and that might be why you see older ones still laying around. It is a car with a cult following and some people just love them. I am starting to really appreciate the Range Rover for what it is and that is the only reason I am willing to consider a purchase of a car so expensive. I too like the G wagon for the same reasons that I like the Rover, but I think the Rover is a better car for its stated purpose and it does cost a lttle bit less than the G wagon.
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  #43  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:44 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Out of curiosity are you going to use what you get for offroad use? I am interested in one for the size of it and quite honestly would probably never leave a paved road with it. Sure I might drove over a median when stuck in gridlock traffic but that is about it for "off roading" from me. I'd expect all of these to wear out their struts/shocks around the 60k mark because of the weight of the vehicles. You probably could tolerate them to 80-100k miles unless it is a failure that effects ride height and that seems to be the common failure for the air suspensions. I have read on the MLs at least that you will save a TON of money on replacements(suspension parts) just by buying the replacements MBZ parts online over the dealers. So almost expect to replace struts/shocks every time you replace tires.

Before I got my BMW the GL is what I wanted to get in 1-2 years. I was saving up for it and my plan was to make our Accord last until ready. The Accord got some problems though I was unwilling to pay the money to fix. So I tried using my old 300SD but unfortunately I had been ignoring a known vacuum leak and discovered that was stupid because it got the transmission to the point it is today which is needing to be rebuilt. I might still eventually get one but never did research problems on them. I just know two people with them, one with the older CDI and one with a 4ish year old Blutec. Neither of the GLs I know about have had any real issues but that is a very small sampling of cars to look at too.
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  #44  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:45 AM
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My buddy's wife had a LR Discovery from the Mid-90s (super tall & boxy) and got rid of it because at the time they just couldn't afford the very expensive upkeep. She loved it and regrets having gotten rid of in favor of a Lexus RS. She isn't interesting in the new ones but would buy an old discovery in a heart beat despite all of the mechanical problems they have.

There was also a great episode of Top Gear where they trekked across South America in 4x4's and of course Jeremy Clarkson chose and circa 90s Range Rover. May and Hammond ridiculed him mercilessly for doing so.
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
As poor as BMW reliability is, the experience of my friends over the years is that Audi is much worse. I do not even consider purchase of an Audi simply because every one of my friends with an Audi (about six in the past ten years) all had chronic problems the dealers could not fix.

Yeah, I know it is a small sample size, but 6 out of 6 is enough for me to mark Audi off my list of possibilities.
I actually traded in a first year 2007 (very early production) Audi Q7. I got one of the first ones off the lot when they came out. Zero major issues in 4 years at all.
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  #46  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:15 AM
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OP, I've owned both. X5 and Q7.

Q7 is larger, has a better interior, feels higher quality, has better resale, is more comfortable, but the X5 drives so much better. Not to mention, the diesel power plant in the BMW is better IMO.

I wouldn't get a Q7 now because the next gen Q7 is around the corner.
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  #47  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:50 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Something to keep in mind. The older Land Rovers are relatively inexpensive to repair and that might be why you see older ones still laying around. It is a car with a cult following and some people just love them. I am starting to really appreciate the Range Rover for what it is and that is the only reason I am willing to consider a purchase of a car so expensive. I too like the G wagon for the same reasons that I like the Rover, but I think the Rover is a better car for its stated purpose and it does cost a lttle bit less than the G wagon.
When I say older I'm talking about early 90's through mid 00's. You know the ones that are supposedly waiting to leave you on the side of the road, crying and bankrupt. I really love the classic old series II and defender 110's but, I don't think I could tolerate one as a daily driver. There was a defender fire truck (yes, I said fire truck) for sale here in Charlotte a few months ago that was a grey market import and I really had a hard time not bidding on it.

I've driven a couple of G wagens and every time I end up not being able to justify the money mainly because of how badly it rides and then and months later yet again I find myself looking at them thinking "I want one of those".

I do take my SUV's off road but, nothing too serious. Mostly miles of dirt roads. I like to fly fish and there are a few areas I go that have some pretty minor off road trails to get up, nothing that requires skid plates or even half the capability of a G wagen.
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  #48  
Old 06-04-2012, 01:18 PM
billj214 billj214 is offline
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Our Land Rover group has a member who owns a G-Wagon, we took him in since there are not enough GW owners in any location to form a club. He takes his wagon off-roading and can do any trail an LR3, Series II or D90 can go with ease, I really like his G-wagon, its a beauty!

Also at this years annual rally event we had two 2012 RR Sprorts show up, one of them had installed rock sliders and M/T Tires, the other was stock but did the trails and aquired a few scratches but they had a great time.

http://azlro.org
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  #49  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:18 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billj214 View Post
I don't typically pay attention to comments that state generalizations without any facts unless its strictly an opinion. The statement that more expensive cars break down may be true but not likely true for all cars, also the statement it costs more to fix would be something I think we can all agree on!
Anyone that owns an expensive car typically also can afford the extra warranty and will buy it if they intend on keeping the car for a long time.
Although I generally agree with this, it does not relate to anything I said.
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  #50  
Old 06-06-2012, 08:46 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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As far as off road capable SUV's goes no one has mentioned two very capable cars that I suspect hardly ever go off road. Those are the Porsche Cayenne and the VW T-egg. They have very robust suspensions with lockers and I suspect (the Porsche for sure) hardly ever leave the pavement. Of course this was realized and that capability was downgraded in the new versions to save weight and of course $$$$. However the older versions still have a very capable off road suspension, easily matching the very expensive and rare G-Wagen and I supect exceeding the GL/M and R version of the MB chassis.
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