Bmw or audi?

OK, been laying low over the summer months. Time to pick this back up!

I recently sold my 2008 Tahoe LT. A great car for larger family and road trips, but alas I just couldn't justify having 3 cars any more and it was a gas guzzler in the city at about 12mpg with 18mpg hwy.

So now I'm left with a 2006 XC90 and my trusty 335D.

Plan is to trade-in the XC90 for a new Diesel SUV. After loking at all the option out there today it is coming down to the X5 35D, the Q7TDI and the GL350TDI. What is very clear is that the BMW is much more affordable than the others, coming in at around $55k well equipped after all the discounts and incentives. The Audi will be some $6k-$8k more and the MB GL350 will be even higher at nearly $70k. Throw in the 4yr/50k miles maintenance free, the BMW is just in another league.

My problem remains getting over the lack of rear trunk space in the X5, the Q7 is just a bit better with the GL truely having the space I would like. I'm leaving the T-EGG and Cayenne out because of lack of rear space as well.

I remain concerned about the apparent lack of interest by BMW in the Diesel selections for the US. X5D is not available as a 2013 but you can still order the 2012, so I assume they are holding the line for the 2014 MY (possibly?).

It is hard to look past the great deal on the X5, and can't get anything close to that with MB or Audi.

Anybody have any further suggestions/thoughts/considerations on this?

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Anybody have any further suggestions/thoughts/considerations on this?

VW Toureg, possibly. Only other thing available with diesel, awd and in about the size you want.

How important is the added space to you? If very important then one thing I would try doing is going on cars.com and searching for new GL350s sitting on dealer lots that are not the current model year. Then contact that dealer and ask them what sort of deal they can pass on since the vehicle is "old". I just looked and using the advanced search to limit the max MY to 2011, selecting only diesel powered GLs and distance from me to Any returned 3 vehicles supposedly still sitting at dealers. You might be surprised at what sort of deal they could pass on those, I was seeing $15k discounts on C63s when I took a similar approach to searching.

How often do you actually need the trunk space? If it's a situation where it's only every once in a while or only on road trips would a roof box work for the extra storage?

It's been a while so, I don't recall but have you driven the other options? I recently drove the ML (I know it's not the GL) and there is no way I'd be happy driving that everyday compared to my X5. I may just not be an M-B person though. The steering was just so numb and over assisted, I didn't like the user interface, M-command I think it's called, it seemed counter intuitive but, I've had idrive for 5+ years so maybe I'm just programmed to expect things to work a certain way.

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

How often do you actually need the trunk space? If it's a situation where it's only every once in a while or only on road trips would a roof box work for the extra storage?

Or why not just rent an SUV for when those trips take place and buy a car to replace the Volvo SUV.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

OK, been laying low over the summer months. Time to pick this back up!

I recently sold my 2008 Tahoe LT. A great car for larger family and road trips, but alas I just couldn't justify having 3 cars any more and it was a gas guzzler in the city at about 12mpg with 18mpg hwy.

So now I'm left with a 2006 XC90 and my trusty 335D.

Plan is to trade-in the XC90 for a new Diesel SUV. After loking at all the option out there today it is coming down to the X5 35D, the Q7TDI and the GL350TDI. What is very clear is that the BMW is much more affordable than the others, coming in at around $55k well equipped after all the discounts and incentives. The Audi will be some $6k-$8k more and the MB GL350 will be even higher at nearly $70k. Throw in the 4yr/50k miles maintenance free, the BMW is just in another league.

My problem remains getting over the lack of rear trunk space in the X5, the Q7 is just a bit better with the GL truely having the space I would like. I'm leaving the T-EGG and Cayenne out because of lack of rear space as well.

I remain concerned about the apparent lack of interest by BMW in the Diesel selections for the US. X5D is not available as a 2013 but you can still order the 2012, so I assume they are holding the line for the 2014 MY (possibly?).

It is hard to look past the great deal on the X5, and can't get anything close to that with MB or Audi.

Anybody have any further suggestions/thoughts/considerations on this?

I too am shopping for an SUV and have the x5 on my short list. I have spent some time talking to people over in the E70 forum and I have decided that, if I get an x5, it will not be a diesel. I want the m sport package and BMW does not offer the option to put m sport on the x5d. Stupid in my opinion, but it is what it is. I too am looking at the GL, but I am looking at the 550 version. Going to test drive a 2013 (new bodystyle) in the next couple of weeks. The other choices for me are the ML 550/63AMG and the Range Rover supercharged. Sounds like you need a GL sized car and that is probably the best car for you. There are a few leftover 2012 GL350BT left laying around and you might be able to get a nice deal on one if you do not require the updated body. I personally think the update looks much better so I would pass on the leftover. Back to the x5d...if you can do without adaptive drive (please test drive it before you buy..it is not the best suspension) then a nicely equipped d is 65k with about 10k in incentives plus expected dealer discount (500-750 over invoice, diesel credit, app credit, loyalty and drive for the team). If you add in adaptive drive (which I would require because of the lack of sport suspension) the car's price, for me, jumps to over 70k making the x5d a not so great deal compared with a 3.5i gas car for 5k less. Since I require a real sport suspension or adaptive drive the diesel just does not work for me.

I found the MB GL to be a very heavy truck when I drove it.

Why not take all of them for a test drive?

I'd imagine it is rather hard to make something big not drive like a heavy truck. With that said, I don't think my heavy truck drives as nice as a GL at all.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I too am shopping for an SUV ...Since I require a real sport suspension or adaptive drive the diesel just does not work for me.

No SUV can really have a sport suspension that can compete with that on a sedan/coupe.

Back to my original point on this thread, Land Rover seems to be the niche for the luxury SUV owners who want power, comfort, room and off-road capability.

An exiting new possibility is the Range Rover diesel hybrid - http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...brid-for-2013/

How about a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3 liter turbo-diesel and 8 speed automatic?

PL

You guys are the reason I post here!

The extra rear space is only used maybe a couple of times a year for road trips. We are a family of (4) with an ocassional 5th person thrown in for good measure. So it is not super critical. 3rd row is also a nice to have but not mandatory as it was 5 years ago when I bought the Tahoe. I could opt for the roof top carrier or even that handy trailer hitch bin in a pinch. Or as a few have suggested, just rent a bigger vehicle for that type of trip.

This vehicle will be the wife's daily driver, picking up kids, groceries, etc... It will be the weekend getaway car, go to the beach, BBQ, carry the bikes, etc... and then the ocassional road trip car.

Wife likes to be in a higher seating position for view of the road. She also likes some acceleration for passing when needed (a big plus of the Tahoe with 5.3l V-8).

She was very fond of the Range Rover Sport HSE, but my pocket book was not! Plus it has a poor reputation for reliability, then there's that little MPG thing that bothers me as an engineer. Probably one of the better looking Luxury SUVs on the road. But again, little trunk space.

I too am not a MB person. Just has always had that old folks feel but, I guess I'm getting old! Fighting it every bit of the way.

Wife likes the Q7 but respects the higher price vs the X5. I've convinced her so far that the X5 is the "best deal" on price and economy. And let's be honest, it's still a great looking vehicle. Might be getting a bit long in the tooth, but who isn't?

I could look at CPO but it would have to have all the features we are looking for and be pretty low miles. Low mile CPO's are selling just a bit below a new one, so why would you opt for one if you can get a new one exactly the way you want it?

I'll give a look at the older models still sitting at the dealer and see what I find as one of you has suggested.

Just not sure I want to be the owner of one of the last X5D MY's.

If the space is not an issue then the X5d I think is a hard deal to pass up on. Well unless you shop outside of European makes.

Originally Posted by billj214

Back to my original point on this thread, Land Rover seems to be the niche for the luxury SUV owners who want power, comfort, room and off-road capability.

An exiting new possibility is the Range Rover diesel hybrid - http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...brid-for-2013/

Never been a truck/SUV guy but that looked slick and what a great entrance for the Land Rover.

Originally Posted by billj214

Back to my original point on this thread, Land Rover seems to be the niche for the luxury SUV owners who want power, comfort, room and off-road capability.

An exiting new possibility is the Range Rover diesel hybrid - http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...brid-for-2013/

I guess if you want to break down all the time, then a Range is a good idea.

I can't think of a reason why anyone would buy a Rover, especially since their service, resale, fit/finish, quality, and reliability are all bottom of the barrel.

Flyingman, have you considered 3rd row seating option on x5 d? It's an $1,700 option.

Ok yes the Land Rovers have a history of breaking down but that mostly ended with the LR3.

I think most people on this forum can agree that reliability in a vehicle that has the most sofisticated electronics and engines will have some issues but we tend to live with them for the sake of driving the ultimate vehicle.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

Flyingman, have you considered 3rd row seating option on x5 d? It's an $1,700 option.

Absolutely, would most likely add that in.

I'll upload my build for comment. Remember it will most be the wife's daily driver and I'll get it on weekends and road trips!

Flyingman If you are going X5d route then I say hold up till next BMW diesels are offered unless some dealer offers a killer deal. I see no reason why X5d wouldnt be in MY2014 lineup. Its been their most successful diesel and X5. You have a vehicle for time being and always have option of renting if you need more space.

Since the RR has been discussed as an alternative this is not limited to diesel offerings here in the US. Another choice for a luxo SUV would be the Lexus LX570 which can pretty well do anything and go anywhere that the Land Cruiser can -- which is pretty far indeed. They also have the third row (useable) and are probably the most reliable of the bunch. Also unfortunately among the most expensive as well. As mentioned earlier the new Jeep GC with the new turbo diesel might be worth waiting for too! No third row, but it is an oil burner and will no doubt be a bit less than the T-egg (cheapest european diesel sold here) and carry a significant off road - go anywhere - cachet.

Out of curiosity just how much off roading does the wife do there in Miami? Seems a lot of the comments on here are about how well or poorly the SUVs perform in offroad conditions.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

No SUV can really have a sport suspension that can compete with that on a sedan/coupe.

True, but as far as SUV's go the m sport x5 is as sporty as they get (outside of the x5m, Cayenne and 63AMG)

Originally Posted by billj214

Back to my original point on this thread, Land Rover seems to be the niche for the luxury SUV owners who want power, comfort, room and off-road capability.

An exiting new possibility is the Range Rover diesel hybrid - http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...brid-for-2013/

I am seriously considering an Range Rover...very seriously. I have talked to a few on the Rover forums and have spent a bit of time looking at them. It is clear to me where the weak spots are with the car and I am willing to work with that for all that the Range is able to do. My biggest question is if or not to wait for the new Range in November and if I want a first year Range that was designed by Tata. Going back and forth on this, but will probably wait until the new Range hits the showroom floor before I make a final decision.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

You guys are the reason I post here!

The extra rear space is only used maybe a couple of times a year for road trips. We are a family of (4) with an ocassional 5th person thrown in for good measure. So it is not super critical. 3rd row is also a nice to have but not mandatory as it was 5 years ago when I bought the Tahoe. I could opt for the roof top carrier or even that handy trailer hitch bin in a pinch. Or as a few have suggested, just rent a bigger vehicle for that type of trip.

This vehicle will be the wife's daily driver, picking up kids, groceries, etc... It will be the weekend getaway car, go to the beach, BBQ, carry the bikes, etc... and then the ocassional road trip car.

Wife likes to be in a higher seating position for view of the road. She also likes some acceleration for passing when needed (a big plus of the Tahoe with 5.3l V-8).

She was very fond of the Range Rover Sport HSE, but my pocket book was not! Plus it has a poor reputation for reliability, then there's that little MPG thing that bothers me as an engineer. Probably one of the better looking Luxury SUVs on the road. But again, little trunk space.

I too am not a MB person. Just has always had that old folks feel but, I guess I'm getting old! Fighting it every bit of the way.

Wife likes the Q7 but respects the higher price vs the X5. I've convinced her so far that the X5 is the "best deal" on price and economy. And let's be honest, it's still a great looking vehicle. Might be getting a bit long in the tooth, but who isn't?

I could look at CPO but it would have to have all the features we are looking for and be pretty low miles. Low mile CPO's are selling just a bit below a new one, so why would you opt for one if you can get a new one exactly the way you want it?

I'll give a look at the older models still sitting at the dealer and see what I find as one of you has suggested.

Just not sure I want to be the owner of one of the last X5D MY's.

Looks like you want the SUV for the same thing as me except I do not have kids. It too will be the better half's car. I have had 4 x5's in the past and they do not have much storage space at all. I have already resigned myself to the fact that an x5 will require a Thule roof storage bin for travel because it takes very little to pack the back of the x5. If the x5 had just a bit more storage space in the back I would buy one and never look back. My biggest gripe with every x5 I have owned is that it really does not have enough room for long trips hence my consideration of the GL and the Range. Neither of those drives like the x5, but they do have ample storage space which is the reason for buying an SUV anyway...otherwise why not just have a car. As far as the Range Rover Sport...I love them, but I cannot fit. The front seat legroom is terrible and I am over 6 feet tall...the Range Rover is the only Land Rover I can drive. Lastly, I too am not fond of buying a last model year x5 since it will be replaced in less than a year. However, I can always lease one for 36 months and get the new bodystyle when the bugs are ironed out.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

If the space is not an issue then the X5d I think is a hard deal to pass up on. Well unless you shop outside of European makes.

Space is an issue or Flyingman and I both would have the x5 in our driveways.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I guess if you want to break down all the time, then a Range is a good idea.

I can't think of a reason why anyone would buy a Rover, especially since their service, resale, fit/finish, quality, and reliability are all bottom of the barrel.

As previously mentioned....Land Rover reliability has come a long way in recent years. Nothing like it used to be. Anything after 2008-2009 is pretty solid.

Originally Posted by billj214

Ok yes the Land Rovers have a history of breaking down but that mostly ended with the LR3.

This is in line with what I have heard as well.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Since the RR has been discussed as an alternative this is not limited to diesel offerings here in the US. Another choice for a luxo SUV would be the Lexus LX570 which can pretty well do anything and go anywhere that the Land Cruiser can -- which is pretty far indeed. They also have the third row (useable) and are probably the most reliable of the bunch. Also unfortunately among the most expensive as well. As mentioned earlier the new Jeep GC with the new turbo diesel might be worth waiting for too! No third row, but it is an oil burner and will no doubt be a bit less than the T-egg (cheapest european diesel sold here) and carry a significant off road - go anywhere - cachet.

Hmm...I am not saying you are not right, but to me the Toyota Sequoia would be the best Japanese large SUV for the money. Seems to be a much better value than the Lexus LX570 which I think is way overpriced for what you get. The Jeep GC is a nice SUV, but I think Flyingman wants to stick to European makes.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Space is an issue or Flyingman and I both would have the x5 in our driveways.

Which is why I am surprised you consider an ML63 as a possible option. Although I have not compared the space in both the ML and X5 beyond looking at figures online. If I wanted something European that had three usable rows of seat with still some storage space then the GL would probably be the only thing I'd be looking at. Then I'd look at the price tag though and quickly find a way to re-evaluate the my transportation needs for my family of 5.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

The Jeep GC is a nice SUV, but I think Flyingman wants to stick to European makes.

The new Jeep GC is a newly designed well regarded SUV. The diesel engine is currently used in Europe by I-Motori, the 8 speed automatic will be by ZF.

Seems like it would be a superior off road machine as well as luxury, sporty, economical (perhaps over 30 mpg), and have good utility. Can't say much about reliability, but BMW and Land Rover are below average overall.

PL