Bmw or audi?

The LR is my baby but the prices WHOA!! to steep for me A DIESEL would be great. for the best bang for the buck the ONLY one would be the new Jeep GC for the price, as far as reliability will see what FIAT has to say on this but if they give us the 100k warranty damn you cant go wrong on this, Yes I drove the MB mamouth Diesel and man it was nice comfortable and yes a DIESEL!! but my needs were different and I opted for the 335d, I kind of wished the Jeep would of been around Im trying to convice my girlfriend to get the DIESEL Jeep next year she loves the torque on my 335d. We'll see what happen she loved the X1 though but NO DIESEL as of yet!!!

Guys, all good comments but I have the following minimum requirements:

1. Has to be a diesel. No debate on that.
2. 3rd row is optional, nice to have.
3. I have to look dam good driving around in it, cause I need all the help I can get! My wife does all right in that department.
4. I don't want to take out a second loan on my home to afford it.
5. Has to have a good reliability record.
6. Has to have reasonable power/acceleration, passing.
7. Has to fit in my garage, so 200inches is about my limit on length. The Q7 just makes that.

I have some time to think about it so not rushing into it.

I'm still back to the following choices as I see it:
1. X5D
2. Q7
3. GL350

I'll have to do a matrix comparison.

The new JGC was designed jointly with Mercedes back when they owned Chrysler and it has a distinct european flavor -- along with virtually the same underpinnings as the new ML (as does the Durango). The turbo V6 is a VM Motori diesel that has been in use overseas for a number of years now and has apparently been well received. The US version will be slightly uprated to compete with the euro offerings and along with the 8 speed ZF box should be a real player. VM Motori is an Italian company owned jointly by Fiat and GM(!) they are prolific engine producers and do a great inline turbo 6 diesel boat engine -- I had one and it was great!

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Guys, all good comments but I have the following minimum requirements:

1. Has to be a diesel. No debate on that.
2. 3rd row is optional, nice to have.
3. I have to look dam good driving around in it, cause I need all the help I can get! My wife does all right in that department.
4. I don't want to take out a second loan on my home to afford it.
5. Has to have a good reliability record.
6. Has to have reasonable power/acceleration, passing.
7. Has to fit in my garage, so 200inches is about my limit on length. The Q7 just makes that.

I have some time to think about it so not rushing into it.

I'm still back to the following choices as I see it:
1. X5D
2. Q7
3. GL350

I'll have to do a matrix comparison.

Have you actually looked in person at an X5d with the 3rd row? Unless you are a Oompa Loompa or your passengers all are then it seemed worthless to me and just tears into already limited storage space. But I guess Oompa Loompa's don't travel with much

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

The new Jeep GC is a newly designed well regarded SUV. The diesel engine is currently used in Europe by I-Motori, the 8 speed automatic will be by ZF.

Seems like it would be a superior off road machine as well as luxury, sporty, economical (perhaps over 30 mpg), and have good utility. Can't say much about reliability, but BMW and Land Rover are below average overall.

PL

Chrysler just bought back our '12 Overland. Pos... It was our second one in which we traded the first because it sucked too.

What about holding off until the new Tahoe comes out this coming year? We just bought a new suburban because my wife thinks she needs to take the whole house with her everywhere we go...

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Which is why I am surprised you consider an ML63 as a possible option. Although I have not compared the space in both the ML and X5 beyond looking at figures online. If I wanted something European that had three usable rows of seat with still some storage space then the GL would probably be the only thing I'd be looking at. Then I'd look at the price tag though and quickly find a way to re-evaluate the my transportation needs for my family of 5.

Funny you should say that because that is what the wife said. Basically her argument was "I cannot see why the ML63AMG is worth 97k when it is only marginally larger in the storage area over the x5". Her argument was if I want the ML63 for its driving ability I should just buy the E63 or M5 because the car is more suited to aggressive driving than the SUV. I thought about it and realized she was right. Her point of view is that a mid sized SUV should be the x5 because we can get such a good deal on one and it is adequate if we buy the Thule roof storage bin. If we go up in price we should be getting a significant bump in storage space hence the GL and Range Rover. As it stands now we will either buy an x5 with a Thule storage bin for the top or pick the GL/Range Rover. We are going to test out the 2013 GL now that they are on the lots and wait until November for the Land Rover dealer to get a 2013 Range in for testing before we make our final decision. If we go x5 route it will be just in time for holiday sales event and I can claim another BMW CCA rebate since I got my 535i last November (have to wait a full year between cars to claim rebate).

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Guys, all good comments but I have the following minimum requirements:

1. Has to be a diesel. No debate on that.
2. 3rd row is optional, nice to have.
3. I have to look dam good driving around in it, cause I need all the help I can get! My wife does all right in that department.
4. I don't want to take out a second loan on my home to afford it.
5. Has to have a good reliability record.
6. Has to have reasonable power/acceleration, passing.
7. Has to fit in my garage, so 200inches is about my limit on length. The Q7 just makes that.

I have some time to think about it so not rushing into it.

I'm still back to the following choices as I see it:
1. X5D
2. Q7
3. GL350

I'll have to do a matrix comparison.

If speed is not a problem it would appear to me that you should get the GL350BT. It is not fast, but it gives you what you need in terms of space and diesel engine. If you decide space is not needed then I would go with the x5d and make sure it has adaptive drive.

Originally Posted by mjrbimmer335i

Chrysler just bought back our '12 Overland. Pos... It was our second one in which we traded the first because it sucked too.

What about holding off until the new Tahoe comes out this coming year? We just bought a new suburban because my wife thinks she needs to take the whole house with her everywhere we go...

A shame to hear about the problems with Jeep. Although I have written it off of my list, I was impressed with it for the cost and hoped that Jeep's quality control problems were resolved. It appears from your post they still have room for improvement.

Anyone here have any speculation as to what BMW will do with the diesel X5 going into 2013/2014?

My understanding is that the 2012 continues to be offered and built into 2013, but I expect this will have to change when the 2014MY comes out. What are we expecting them to offer?

My USAA Buyers guide is showing me something close to $11k in total savings on the 2012X5D while the Q7 for 2013 has none and the GL350 has about $3k or $4k.

I don't have a particular issue with a 2012 model in 2013. The X5 is a classic design and will hold for years to come.

Sorry to hear about the problems with the Jeep GC -- although BMW has bought back its share of cars as well! As far as waiting for the new Tahoe -- why not look at one of the triplets -- the new GMC Acadia Denali. Very nice car, lots of room, decent performance and mileage.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Anyone here have any speculation as to what BMW will do with the diesel X5 going into 2013/2014?

My understanding is that the 2012 continues to be offered and built into 2013, but I expect this will have to change when the 2014MY comes out. What are we expecting them to offer?

My USAA Buyers guide is showing me something close to $11k in total savings on the 2012X5D while the Q7 for 2013 has none and the GL350 has about $3k or $4k.

I don't have a particular issue with a 2012 model in 2013. The X5 is a classic design and will hold for years to come.

This is probably because MY 2014 I believe is the next version of the X5, it goes from being the E70 to the F15. I do not keep up with this stuff at all so I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. If I am right it might explain why you will not be finding much at all about if or if not a diesel X5 offering in the MY 2014. As to why none in 2013 and still called a 2012, I have no idea and it might be another one of those BMW things where everyone more or less speculates why.

Personally I have some strong doubts they are going to give up on diesels in these. They seem to sell a ton of them in my area so i just assume they do everywhere in the States. Now if they will be changing the diesel engine to something else and/or other things of that nature, I could easily see that.

I did some Googling and found the following links with spy shots of the next gen X5:

Car and Driver

Motor Authority

Since it's likely to be available in a year's time why not wait for it?
The wait will be worth it since it should have an 8 speed tranny plus updated interior and toys!
The current X5 interior like our e9X is rather outdated by comparison.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Anyone here have any speculation as to what BMW will do with the diesel X5 going into 2013/2014?

My understanding is that the 2012 continues to be offered and built into 2013, but I expect this will have to change when the 2014MY comes out. What are we expecting them to offer?

My USAA Buyers guide is showing me something close to $11k in total savings on the 2012X5D while the Q7 for 2013 has none and the GL350 has about $3k or $4k.

I don't have a particular issue with a 2012 model in 2013. The X5 is a classic design and will hold for years to come.

2013 x5d will start production in 01/13. 2012 x5d will be built until 12/12. 2014 x5 will be the new truck. Due out summer 2013 as a 2014 model.

Originally Posted by DC-IT

I did some Googling and found the following links with spy shots of the next gen X5:

Car and Driver

Motor Authority

Since it's likely to be available in a year's time why not wait for it?
The wait will be worth it since it should have an 8 speed tranny plus updated interior and toys!
The current X5 interior like our e9X is rather outdated by comparison.

Or wait for the 2014 to come out and scoop up a 2013 still on a lot for a scorching deal.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Sorry to hear about the problems with the Jeep GC -- although BMW has bought back its share of cars as well! As far as waiting for the new Tahoe -- why not look at one of the triplets -- the new GMC Acadia Denali. Very nice car, lots of room, decent performance and mileage.

If ain't a diesel, not interested.

Originally Posted by DC-IT

I did some Googling and found the following links with spy shots of the next gen X5:

Car and Driver

Motor Authority

Since it's likely to be available in a year's time why not wait for it?
The wait will be worth it since it should have an 8 speed tranny plus updated interior and toys!
The current X5 interior like our e9X is rather outdated by comparison.

If they put that engine stop/start feature, I'm out of there!

Originally Posted by Flyingman

If they put that engine stop/start feature, I'm out of there!

That does not seem to be showing up an any diesels so far in the states. Not even the latest offering that is from Porsche who does have that feature on its gassers.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

If they put that engine stop/start feature, I'm out of there!

They have approved dealerships to recode that feature to stay in whatever setting you set it to.

After further research I am including the ML350 Bluetec. The new lines of the 2012/13 are not bad.

Wife seems to like it.

Price seems competitive with the X5 with about similar size and space.

I'm not a MB guy at all, but we'll stop by the local stealer and compare the ML and GL.

The X5 still beats them all out on price.

Reliability seems to have become a big issue for the X5. Not sure why. Reviews seem to mix up the X5 gazzer with the diesel.

As I recall the ML actually makes the most torque out of the bunch. It however I believe is smaller on the inside than an X5 and the ML I don't think has an option for a 3rd row midget person seats. I'd be very surprised if you still want one after driving it and the X5. Although it is for the wife so driving dynamics may not be as important. One upside of the latest ML is you can actually have a spare tire and you DEF fill port is by the diesel port.

Plus if you get an ML then you might have Jurasic Park nightmares .....

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Plus if you get an ML then you might have Jurasic Park nightmares .....

Haha, I was just telling my wife that was the year the ML came out.

Actually the ML looks quite smart in the 2012 lines. I really disliked the earlier versions of it, and I recall the poor quality and workmanship those first few years from the Alabama factory.

It appears to beat the X5 by about 1 mpg, and you are correct it has a bit more torque, plus a 7 speed AT.

Can't believe I'm actually talking myself into looking at one!

Flyingman, make sure you do a thorough test drive as some of the W166 ML BlueTec suffers from a hesitation/bucking issue.
Read the following thread discussing this issue: Diesel Hesitation and Bucking

Other than that the W166 is a nicer looking SUV than the W164.
It's interior is much improved and the new Diesel power train has higher TQ and HP than the W164.

I was thinking of getting one when my lease is up in 2014 but the bucking issue is making me think twice. I'll probably look at the new X5 or buy my ML since it's been very reliable and is fully loaded even with the leatherette covered dash board and contrast stitching on the dash and seats.

Maybe by then something else will be even more appealing.

Originally Posted by DC-IT

Flyingman, make sure you do a thorough test drive as some of the W166 ML BlueTec suffers from a hesitation/bucking issue.
Read the following thread discussing this issue: Diesel Hesitation and Bucking

Other than that the W166 is a nicer looking SUV than the W164.
It's interior is much improved and the new Diesel power train has higher TQ and HP than the W164.

I was thinking of getting one when my lease is up in 2014 but the bucking issue is making me think twice. I'll probably look at the new X5 or buy my ML since it's been very reliable and is fully loaded even with the leatherette covered dash board and contrast stitching on the dash and seats.

Maybe by then something else will be even more appealing.

Thanks for that DC-IT. Why the bi-turbo makes better engineering sense. Or even the new Tri-Turbo!

Sounds like a bug that can be remedied without too much fuss. When i do the test drive I'll be sure to punch it from stop several times. At least I have my trusty 335D to compare it with. For most people this would be their first diesel so wouldn't know what to expect.

If you are using how the diesel in the 335d responds as your baseline then I suggest not wasting your time on anything but the X5. The staged turbos does wonders for throttle response and all of the competition is single variable vaned turbos. I though have not driven the X5d but have the Cayene diesel and ML. I guess it all boils down to what you want out of your wife's vehicle. One thing I have noticed is the single turbo diesels seem to sip fuel better for city driving. I suspect this is because they do not get into boost so easily.

I still have a 2009 Mitsubishi Montero with a 3.0 TDI (in Nicaragua, not here). It lags, but doesn't smoke. Nowhere near the power or pick up that the 335D has. But again, we are talking mostly for the wife's every day driver, and ocassional road trips.

Time is on my side right now.

I look forward to seeing what you say after you have driven all the options you are considering. I happen to like the ML but think I am in the minority on that in this forum.