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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

View Poll Results: What to do with your D out of warranty?
Dump it, it's not worth the headache and expense 9 12.86%
Keep it but get an extended warranty 34 48.57%
Drive it till the wheels com off 26 37.14%
Other? 1 1.43%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:54 PM
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Have you/Do you plan to keep your 335d out of warranty?

Man reading this and that "other" forum I'm starting to get worried about the long term viability of my d.
Between the injectors, EGR, DPF, DDE, urea tank, EGR valve.

So what have you done or plan to do with yours once the warranty is up?
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:11 AM
KarlB KarlB is offline
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approaching 48k on my 2011 335d , we bought the gold level 6yr 100k extended warranty.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:23 AM
DC-IT DC-IT is online now
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Re: Have you/Do you plan to keep your 335d out of warranty?

From my current ongoing issues with the D, if I were to do it again, I wouldn't keep it beyond the warranty.
It seems that BMW doesn't know how to fix our D other than throwing parts in an attempt to solve the SES issues.

Before this saga began my D was a great joy to drive.
Once the SES started it has been into the dealer three times and still not resolved after the injector, intake manifold were changed and carbon buildup cleaned and the current replacement of the DDE.

I have lost confidence in BMW engineering's ability to correctly diagnosed and fix the D.

My D has been in the dealer since mid-March, and I've been driving F30 loaners.

I had the impression that a Diesel engine will easily keep going for over 500,000 miles but if these issues are not resolved, the likely repairs will not be worth keeping the D beyond the extended warranty.

FYI, the SES started after my D went over 65,000 miles.

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  #4  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:47 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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While I realize that only a couple of people on this list seem to have bad problems with their D's and that this does not represent even a statistically significant sample, it is important to note their experience and BMW's response. It is also my experience that vital information is left out of what happened to the cars when such issues come up, including modifications, accidents, additives, fuel brands used, etc. so unless there is more information in their posting, a proper judgement is not possible. No offense meant, but this is what I have experienced and see.

The other issue I have is that extended warranties rarely cover the vehicle past 100,000 miles and if they do, its to 120,000 miles. The way I drive, the respect I give to my machinery, and the proper maintenance that my cars get, it would be after 120,000 miles that the "expensive" repairs occur. I put that in quotes because the references here also use dealer markup and dealer custom of replacing parts often unnecessarily it seems, so I would not go to a dealer anyway. I currently use a BMW/Mercedes/Mini specialist who is quite capable of understanding the computerized complexities of current cars, and if not, has friends all over that can help him. This doesn't make me immune from the same fate that has happened to our colleagues on this site, but if I add up the money saved by not getting extended warranties so far, I could get a new car already.

So paying upwards of $3000 for coverage up to 100,000 miles doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.

PL
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:17 AM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
While I realize that only a couple of people on this list seem to have bad problems with their D's and that this does not represent even a statistically significant sample, it is important to note their experience and BMW's response. It is also my experience that vital information is left out of what happened to the cars when such issues come up, including modifications, accidents, additives, fuel brands used, etc. so unless there is more information in their posting, a proper judgement is not possible. No offense meant, but this is what I have experienced and see.

The other issue I have is that extended warranties rarely cover the vehicle past 100,000 miles and if they do, its to 120,000 miles. The way I drive, the respect I give to my machinery, and the proper maintenance that my cars get, it would be after 120,000 miles that the "expensive" repairs occur. I put that in quotes because the references here also use dealer markup and dealer custom of replacing parts often unnecessarily it seems, so I would not go to a dealer anyway. I currently use a BMW/Mercedes/Mini specialist who is quite capable of understanding the computerized complexities of current cars, and if not, has friends all over that can help him. This doesn't make me immune from the same fate that has happened to our colleagues on this site, but if I add up the money saved by not getting extended warranties so far, I could get a new car already.

So paying upwards of $3000 for coverage up to 100,000 miles doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.

PL
While I respect everyone's individual opinion, this is the only thing I have ever bought an extended warranty for. I usually forgo them as they don't pay off. Based on issues with 'my' car, it made sense to spend the $2800 to guarantee repairs and peace of mind up to 100k.

If my washing machine breaks without a warranty, it sucks, but I can afford to repair it or replace it for $800. Ditto Dishwasher, lawn mower, AC Units, TVs, etc...
If my car needs $10,000-$15,000 repair as described by the major issues outlined, I cannot afford that and will have to eat it or get rid of the car at significant loss. True, I may come out the loser on this single warranty purchase but I don't think it will be by much. I've already used the warranty for lesser repair work that added up to $1k (of course, dealer rate applies).
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:26 AM
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BB_cuda BB_cuda is offline
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sound words Pierre. I have always been a gearhead. I know with all of this computer controlled stuff, that will put me out of business. The hope is that the X5 and 535 will continue long term with diesel offereings and the community will become more educated and we will be able to diagnose the problems and address them without getting into "throwing parts at it" mode like DC is experiencing. I bet long term (3 or 4 yrs down the road) we will be able to buy injectors more cheaply and change them out ourselves (at least those of my mechanic ability or better).

@snipe (if he is still around?), anyone changing their own powerstroke injectors yet?
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:52 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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Thanks BB.

The $10,000 to $15,000 repairs sound like dealer Christmas gifts from BMW under the extended warranty banner to me. In "real life" the heads and intake manifolds don't need replacing. This forum is the first place I've heard of such a thing. But time will tell.... BMW is not without fault here either and VW has had its issues with a small but significant percentage of failed HPFP's requiring a lot of engine work too, all under dealer supervision.

But my point is that most if not all of these things will likely appear outside of the usual extended warranty period, so buyers of used 335d's will bear the benefits and drawbacks of devalued resale IF the problems become common enough, which we don't really know. I expect such cars to require $2000 maintenance and repair a year anyway. Keeping it longer saves on resale value loss that occurs early in the ownership experience, so pick your poison.

Cheers.

PL
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:00 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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Mercedes has a strong record in replacing defective fuel injectors

I have personal experience with a 1986 260E where Mercedes just replaced all the injectors found to have problems from the supplier.

Here is an article about recent high pressure injectors found to be defective and how they went about fixing it. Interestingly in the UK: http://www.carsuk.net/mercedes-bluee...ctor-problems/

Hopefully, BMW has "fixed" it with their latest EGR software update, which my dealer has done for my late build 2011 335d. Hopefully.

PL
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:20 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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It must be very frustrating to go through the repairs and have the car not functioning only to find that its not properly done and see how much it would have cost had the manufacturer not warranted the work. This reminds me of the trouble manufacturers had with cars during the 1970's and early 1980's when government mandated pollution controls were also forced upon us and cars became complex and difficult to service. Some were even unrepairable!

Its clear BMW is pushing the envelope with our cars a bit and that diesel is particularly hard hit by bias at the highest levels of media and government, but direct injected gasoline cars are not far behind with problems, it seems, of carbon build up and high pressure fuel pumps.

Seems the new Mazda 6 diesel will come to North America without a DPF or urea injection, through lower compression ratios. Go figure!

PL
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:31 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
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At 58K miles, I plan to drive it till the wheels fall off. With all the popping and clunking in the steering rack at low speeds, that may literally be sooner than I think.

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  #11  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:44 PM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Thanks BB.

The $10,000 to $15,000 repairs sound like dealer Christmas gifts from BMW under the extended warranty banner to me. In "real life" the heads and intake manifolds don't need replacing. This forum is the first place I've heard of such a thing. But time will tell.... BMW is not without fault here either and VW has had its issues with a small but significant percentage of failed HPFP's requiring a lot of engine work too, all under dealer supervision.

But my point is that most if not all of these things will likely appear outside of the usual extended warranty period, so buyers of used 335d's will bear the benefits and drawbacks of devalued resale IF the problems become common enough, which we don't really know. I expect such cars to require $2000 maintenance and repair a year anyway. Keeping it longer saves on resale value loss that occurs early in the ownership experience, so pick your poison.

Cheers.

PL
Few things in here. Yes, the 10k-15k prices is a bit of a present for the dealership. I am sure they love getting that.

But assuming that 'most if not all of these things will likely appear outside of the usual extended warranty' is not a certainty, so it is a little presumptuous to say that, considering there is no data supporting it.

$2k a year maintenance, yes, definitely accepted. That is the price to pay for a car like this. I don't think that is what we are talking about for the most part here though. (Even if it was, that would add up fast within the extended warranty period). That is, unless you meant 2k/year after 100k miles.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:13 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyD View Post
Few things in here. Yes, the 10k-15k prices is a bit of a present for the dealership. I am sure they love getting that.

But assuming that 'most if not all of these things will likely appear outside of the usual extended warranty' is not a certainty, so it is a little presumptuous to say that, considering there is no data supporting it.

$2k a year maintenance, yes, definitely accepted. That is the price to pay for a car like this. I don't think that is what we are talking about for the most part here though. (Even if it was, that would add up fast within the extended warranty period). That is, unless you meant 2k/year after 100k miles.
I too enjoy having data but alas 'tis mostly from experience, as implied.

We shall see and roll the dice one way or another!

PL
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:17 PM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
I too enjoy having data but alas 'tis mostly from experience, as implied.

We shall see and roll the dice one way or another!

PL
Oh definitely....we will have the data eventually. Hopefully it shows this issue has been resolved for most D owners.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:57 PM
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I traded mine before the warranty expired. Cost of extended warranty was excessive, around $3500, and it did not cover everything. Great car, but injector and other related issues were to costly to take a chance without a warranty as it was my daily driver.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:29 PM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
I traded mine before the warranty expired. Cost of extended warranty was excessive, around $3500, and it did not cover everything. Great car, but injector and other related issues were to costly to take a chance without a warranty as it was my daily driver.
I debated back and forth also at the time. I ended up getting the Platinum Warranty for around 2800 bucks and it covered pretty much everything (what did you believe it didn't cover other than maintenance?). So far so good at 60k miles.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:03 PM
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I rolled the dice and went with the Platinum Extended Warranty and Mainetance, so now have 6years/100k miles, which should give me about three (3) more years the way I drive.

At 50,100 miles I went in for scheduled service and I had a code on my DEF Heater, which required a replacement of the transfer pump assembly as the heater is integral. I'm sure that would have cost me at least $600 or more, but then again I live in South Florida so could have just chosen not to fix that feature.

54k now and running like a charm. My MPG has ticked up a notch, but just slightly.

I think it is clear that the majority of D owners are without major issues, and maybe only some 5% of us are even on this website?????

Ask me again in 50k more!
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2013, 05:00 AM
KarlB KarlB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
So paying upwards of $3000 for coverage up to 100,000 miles doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.

PL
6yr 100k gold was little over 2200.00 just FYI
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2013, 08:37 AM
DC-IT DC-IT is online now
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Re: Have you/Do you plan to keep your 335d out of warranty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
sound words Pierre. I have always been a gearhead. I know with all of this computer controlled stuff, that will put me out of business. The hope is that the X5 and 535 will continue long term with diesel offereings and the community will become more educated and we will be able to diagnose the problems and address them without getting into "throwing parts at it" mode like DC is experiencing. I bet long term (3 or 4 yrs down the road) we will be able to buy injectors more cheaply and change them out ourselves (at least those of my mechanic ability or better).

@snipe (if he is still around?), anyone changing their own powerstroke injectors yet?
Actually my dealer only changed those parts (injector/intake manifold/DDE) and clean out the carbon buildup at the instruction of BMW. BMW supplied all the parts on goodwill and I pay for the labour.

The first SES scan showed injector # 4 was leaking and BMW said to replace it.
The second SES (occurred the same day I got my D back after driving 60 km) resulted in the dealer opening out the cylinder head to find serious carbon buildup. To fix this BMW authorized the replacement of the clogged intake manifold and associated parts and had the cylinder head cleaned out of carbon buildup.
The third SES appeared after I get it back and drove it for 100 km and they couldn't figure out what could be causing the SES.
I printed out a post from this forum which stated that the DDE could be the cause and had to be replaced. I gave that to the SA and he discussed with BMW who then authorized the replacement of the DDE.

If after all these attempts the SES continues I don't know what next?
Maybe tell the SA to remove the led bulb so NO SES will lit up ever again!lol.

@PierreLouis: my D is stock no mods, I drive 80/20 highway/city and over 250 km/day and often drive it like I store it so I don't understand why the carbon buildup still happened. I mostly use Shell/Esso/Pietro Canada Diesel.




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Old 05-01-2013, 03:12 PM
ronbros ronbros is offline
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improve performance& MPG, 2010 X35d

what would be the best route to improve perofrmance and hopefully better MPG?

2010 X35d, i guess two ways , not voiding warrenty, or complete void of warrenty.

i need some perspective on this car.

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:06 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-IT View Post
Actually my dealer only changed those parts (injector/intake manifold/DDE) and clean out the carbon buildup at the instruction of BMW. BMW supplied all the parts on goodwill and I pay for the labour.

The first SES scan showed injector # 4 was leaking and BMW said to replace it.
The second SES (occurred the same day I got my D back after driving 60 km) resulted in the dealer opening out the cylinder head to find serious carbon buildup. To fix this BMW authorized the replacement of the clogged intake manifold and associated parts and had the cylinder head cleaned out of carbon buildup.
The third SES appeared after I get it back and drove it for 100 km and they couldn't figure out what could be causing the SES.
I printed out a post from this forum which stated that the DDE could be the cause and had to be replaced. I gave that to the SA and he discussed with BMW who then authorized the replacement of the DDE.

If after all these attempts the SES continues I don't know what next?
Maybe tell the SA to remove the led bulb so NO SES will lit up ever again!lol.

@PierreLouis: my D is stock no mods, I drive 80/20 highway/city and over 250 km/day and often drive it like I store it so I don't understand why the carbon buildup still happened. I mostly use Shell/Esso/Pietro Canada Diesel.

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Thanks for the info DC-IT

Wonder why they just don't clean the intake manifold.

Does Canada have mostly winterized diesel? Heard jokes about Wisconsin having 4 seasons: June, July, August, and Winter, ha ha.

My last diesel before the 335d was the 2005 E320 CDI and it didn't really like Shell diesel, which sometimes was labeled as having biodiesel in it. It liked Chevron which I use primarily, Texaco/Chevron to be exact. Occasionally when traveling I put in other brands including BP, Mobil, Esso (they call the diesel Esso, not Exxon here) and Hess. No aftermarket additive. Mostly non-winterized fuel.

It seems common for all fuel injected motors to require a new injector after 80-120,000 miles periodically. Bad batches occur on occasion in reports. BMW engines are particularly higher in output and have twin turbo's so may be a bit more prone to problems, dunno.

Driving styles vary enough that people complain of stuff like throttle lag and manual transmission dislike some feel peculiar to their diesels which I don't. My CDI and now the d are hot rods, more like the old burbly V8's of yore where the way to drive it wasn't to wind the motor to high revs but to enjoy the torque!

So with my Bavarian mechanic, driving style, picky fuel purchases, warmer climate, finicky maintenance, I might just get away with fewer problems, as in the past. Or not.

Best.

PL
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:36 AM
DC-IT DC-IT is online now
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Re: Have you/Do you plan to keep your 335d out of warranty?

We have Summer and Winter blend Diesel here.
Shell has V-Power (Premium) as well.

My concern is that Indy shops here in Toronto dont have the tools nor testing equipment to work on our D. I approached two shops that claimed to specialized in M-B and BMW but they both said they've no expertise with our D and don't have the tools to work on the injectors.

Thus only the BMW dealers can repair our D!

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Old 05-02-2013, 04:43 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-IT View Post
We have Summer and Winter blend Diesel here.
Shell has V-Power (Premium) as well.

My concern is that Indy shops here in Toronto dont have the tools nor testing equipment to work on our D. I approached two shops that claimed to specialized in M-B and BMW but they both said they've no expertise with our D and don't have the tools to work on the injectors.

Thus only the BMW dealers can repair our D!

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You have a choice? I doubt it. Most of the year you might have winter blend I surmise.

There is a dealer in Charleston that sells/sold a lot of diesels, and I have mechanics that have all the equipment - that is an excuse I've heard when they don't want to bother before, by the way, on Mercedes senso-tronic brakes for example. It helps having a real German mechanic that likes diesels, so I sympathize.

But dealers do get quite a bit of competition around here, and are roundly criticized if they don't do well. Could be the market. I thought Canada has more diesels, but perhaps not rear wheel drive hot rod types! My experience is that dealer sales and service varies quite a bit, and perhaps only one out of four dealers are "good enough."

PL
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  #23  
Old 05-03-2013, 04:40 PM
Mungo So Cal Mungo So Cal is offline
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Just sold mine, nearing the end of warranty. Car was great to me, but reading what others have been through, just didn't want to accept any risk. Also, I have steadily evolved to desiring a leasing relationship with BMW and having a new vehicle every few years that has the latest features. I have a 328 that is close to delivery. A bit more modest than my D, but I am sure it will meet my needs.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:35 PM
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I just finished my lease and ended up buying it back. There are no other cars on the market right now that I can see as a replacement. Hearing the stories here did scare me, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed because mine has been mostly trouble free this past 50kms.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 147
Mein Auto: X5 35D
100,000 on my 2010 335D now. I decided to roll the dice and opt out of any extended warranty. Driven it from mile 1 and know its been driven hard but taken care of. Had some issues early on (SES lights on ABS/Brakes, DEF and IPod integration no longer working with the radio) but it has been problem free the last 50,000 miles. If it detonates tomorrow, I'll learn my lesson and not buy BMW again. If it goes to 200,000 or more without a hiccup, BMW will get my business again. Usually sell my cars at 100,000 but I don't see anything on the market that I feel is a better option for performance/fuel consumption ratio.
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Vehicle History:
BMW 335D
VW Touareg V10 TDI
Hummer H3
Audi S4
Audi A8
Toyota 4 Runner
Nissan 300ZX Turbo
Mercedes 300E
GMC Jimmy
Triumph TR6
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