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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #201  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:18 AM
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Flyingman Flyingman is offline
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I'm laughing because I had my Dodge Intrepid worked on there in Houston back in 2006 to have the front struts replaced plus to replace my SCR and O2 sensors (vehicle had been out of the country for many years). It was done at a Meineke.

After they finished they said I had to drive my car over to another shop to have the front end realigned, and as I drove out of their lot, turned right and my steering wheel just spun hard right and I hit the curb because the alignment was so completely off!

Had to have my front rim repaired as well!

Talk about Powder Monkeys.
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  #202  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:22 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dThree35 View Post
Snipe you are much more care free and worry free than I. Your blood pressure must be fantastic!

I will spend extra for alignment by dealer I imagine. In my mind it gives me comfort knowing that the dealer spider monkey last aligned a BMW before working on my car. Is this a guarantee of competence? Sadly, far from it. Probably just a placebo. Its just that I have such low expectations from anyone these days with regard to competence that I don't want to risk it.
My experience has taught me that the grease monkey at a dealership is no more better than the grease monkeys at other places. You get your rare exceptions and those tend to not last at the dealerships for too long because they tend to be the guys who open up their own shops too. I have had more damages done to my BMW at BMW dealerships than any where else but simple fact exists I have had zero damages any where else but the BMW dealers broke an interior light lens(the whole piece in the front that holds the map lights), they hooked up a sensor backwards, they scratched the paint, failed to install wheel weights for balancing, and they left it parked under a tree that dropped a berry on it that ate into the paint. So yeah I will trust a guy who probably does nothing but alignments on all sorts of cars all day long for 5 days a week over a guy at the BMW dealership who probably is expected to be a jack of all trades and does many different job duties all day long for 5 days a week.

But as far as alignments go, this is not rocket science at all, I bet anyone on here could do a fair enough job in an afternoon out in their driveway with some string. Especially when talking about a car that has not recently had any major suspension changes or been in a big wreck or old enough to have majorly worn suspension parts to then try to compensate for. Chances are it maybe needs a slight adjustment to toe, caster and/or camber
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  #203  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:06 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is online now
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Well I spoke to the SA and gave them the info provided by boomer, thanks amigo. im scheduled for next thursday and I also mentioned the recall on the AC belt (which BTW I also need the Campaing number, someone please provide me this) to which he was not aware of, remember we have few DIESELS here in Puerto Rico so I beleive this attest to be true of not knowing enough. I called my hookup and he said to let him know the job order number so that may not void my warranty since im flashed by RENNtech. Anyway, once I have it done I will fly to Orlando and then go to or fly to Miami and have my cousin take me to Lake Park or drive from Orlando with my son. Will keep you posted amigos
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  #204  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:03 PM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
Well I spoke to the SA and gave them the info provided by boomer, thanks amigo. im scheduled for next thursday and I also mentioned the recall on the AC belt (which BTW I also need the Campaing number, someone please provide me this) to which he was not aware of, remember we have few DIESELS here in Puerto Rico so I beleive this attest to be true of not knowing enough. I called my hookup and he said to let him know the job order number so that may not void my warranty since im flashed by RENNtech. Anyway, once I have it done I will fly to Orlando and then go to or fly to Miami and have my cousin take me to Lake Park or drive from Orlando with my son. Will keep you posted amigos
This may help on the belt:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=537260&page=7

"On my work order it references SIB 64 08 11 regarding the belt."

A couple observations on change in behavior following the recall/reprogramming...

1. The EGR % as measured on my Android Torque App shows much lower utilization of EGR until the engine is above ~140 F. This is a good thing in my opinion. It also seems to cycle the EGR more, meaning that with a fully warmed up engine the EGR doesn't stay at ~94% nearly constantly for constant low load conditions.

2. My computer predicted mpg's for my normal route to work are showing at least 10% lower than before. Not sure if this is due to the car re-learning, if a the reprogramming changed something in the algorithm for calculated mpg's, or if the car's mpg's will actually decrease based on the new software. Will be tracking hand calculated #'s to see how they match up.
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  #205  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Hey all, does anyone here feel their milage has dropped about 10% (2 - 3 mpg) since the recall fix and reprograming? I have only been getting 26 mpg running same daily routine (against traffic constant @ 75 mph). I'm unsure if it is because AC has been on since it is getting warmer lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
2. My computer predicted mpg's for my normal route to work are showing at least 10% lower than before. Not sure if this is due to the car re-learning, if a the reprogramming changed something in the algorithm for calculated mpg's, or if the car's mpg's will actually decrease based on the new software. Will be tracking hand calculated #'s to see how they match up.

@TDIwyse

I concur. I'm constantly losing 3 mpg since the EGR replacement and reprograming.
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  #206  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:54 PM
tol4o tol4o is offline
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What causes the mpg drop?
Why the same models BMWs in Europe have much better fuel economy?
BMW has to offer a 4 cyl diesels in US without the complicated DPF and DEF systems that hogs the mpg /similar to VW 2.0L TDI/
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  #207  
Old 05-31-2012, 04:36 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
What causes the mpg drop?
Why the same models BMWs in Europe have much better fuel economy?
BMW has to offer a 4 cyl diesels in US without the complicated DPF and DEF systems that hogs the mpg /similar to VW 2.0L TDI/
Often Europe MPG is stated as higher becasue they are using a 4 liter gallon.

DEF should have no impact on MPG at all. DPF has a small impact when regenerating and is also used in Europe as well (if I'm not mistaken).

Just had the recall done a week ago. I did get the worst MPG ever indicated since but that was on short trips with heavy AC usage which may not be unexpected. I have noticed that on the highway with light AC use it's worth about 1 MPG. Until I can repeat a long trip, I will not be able to tell for sure.

Also has anyone confirmed this is an actual drop or just OBC indicated? My OBC MPG was reading 5% low before the recall.
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  #208  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:20 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is online now
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WTF so this recall is hindering mileage performance, I had read that many had improved mileage and Performance than before, Im confused. @TDIwyse gracias for info
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  #209  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:30 AM
tol4o tol4o is offline
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I believe the AC has a very little impact on a 3L diesel engine with that much torque. I personally don't feel much difference in the power between AC on or off.

It's different with the gas engines because of the crankshaft low torque. Everyone knows that when the AC is on, the AC belt impacts directly the crankshaft. The engine needs much more gas pumped in order to keep that crankshaft rotating at proper speed.
In the gas cars, the transmission converts the high rpm and low torque crankshaft to higher /artificial/ torque moving power to the wheels. Works as reductor
In the diesels, the power comes directly from the crankshaft itself so the AC belt has very little impact
Hope you got my point

Miles per imperial gallon is used in UK only
I was talking about the rest of the countries where they use L/100km
If you go to bmw.de and check the models specs you will see the difference
Last week I was able to hit 29mpg on 100% highway with AC on driving with 60-65 mpg which is not bad. That's why I am a little concerned about this recall and the ECU re-programing

The worst mpg we ever had 17mpg city driving, that was during the coldest winter days
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  #210  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:33 AM
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3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
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I'm willing to bet that the alleged drop in mpg is due to what statisticans call unobserved heterogeneity. That is some unobserved (or unmodeled) factor or set of factors creating a spurious correlation between two variables (EGR recall and mpg). Most likely it is the rising temps and use of AC as has been mentioned above.
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  #211  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:45 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
Last week I was able to hit 29mpg on 100% highway with AC on driving with 60-65 mpg which is not bad. That's why I am a little concerned about this recall and the ECU re-programing

The worst mpg we ever had 17mpg city driving, that was during the coldest winter days
Hmm. I've broken 40 MPG on the highway (350 mile trip) with the AC on (but was not very hot). Of course this was pre-recall. Also I do NOT have sports package with 18" wheels.

Can't really tell anything from 1/2 tank of fuel, will not be able to asses any change for a while, so not getting into the hysteria (yet).
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  #212  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:44 AM
DC-IT DC-IT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
What causes the mpg drop?
Why the same models BMWs in Europe have much better fuel economy?
BMW has to offer a 4 cyl diesels in US without the complicated DPF and DEF systems that hogs the mpg /similar to VW 2.0L TDI/
My Jetta TDI doesn't have the DEF but the new Passat TDI with the same 2.0L needs the DEF 'cos of the larger vehicle size.

But the Passat TDI is able to get better FE than the Jetta TDI! Go figure!

If VW introduce a Passat TDI Wagon I'll be very interested in getting one.
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  #213  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:49 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
Why the same models BMWs in Europe have much better fuel economy?
BMW has to offer a 4 cyl diesels in US without the complicated DPF and DEF systems that hogs the mpg /similar to VW 2.0L TDI/
EU regs have not yet (2014 phase-in) had to have the SCR system on their cars.
The VW gets by without a DEF (it definitely has the DPF) because it's light - unlike the 3-series - and the pollutants are limited to grams per mile. Since it's lighter it gets better mileage.
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  #214  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:53 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
I believe the AC has a very little impact on a 3L diesel engine with that much torque. I personally don't feel much difference in the power between AC on or off.

It's different with the gas engines because of the crankshaft low torque. Everyone knows that when the AC is on, the AC belt impacts directly the crankshaft. The engine needs much more gas pumped in order to keep that crankshaft rotating at proper speed.
In the gas cars, the transmission converts the high rpm and low torque crankshaft to higher /artificial/ torque moving power to the wheels. Works as reductor
In the diesels, the power comes directly from the crankshaft itself so the AC belt has very little impact
Hope you got my point
No, I don't. The A/C compressor isn't free, its not a perpetual-motion machine.
The same amount of HP is taken - from either the diesel crank or gas crank - under similar conditions. Diesel mileage with a/c on goes down, simple as that.

Don't know why you think that gas engines "slow down" with it on, my son's 335i certainly doesn't.
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  #215  
Old 05-31-2012, 07:39 AM
tol4o tol4o is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
No, I don't. The A/C compressor isn't free, its not a perpetual-motion machine.
The same amount of HP is taken - from either the diesel crank or gas crank - under similar conditions. Diesel mileage with a/c on goes down, simple as that.

Don't know why you think that gas engines "slow down" with it on, my son's 335i certainly doesn't.
I know the AC is not free and there are always HPs taken off. What I meant is that the AC belt has less impact on the diesel engine than on the gasoline
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  #216  
Old 05-31-2012, 07:50 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
I know the AC is not free and there are always HPs taken off. What I meant is that the AC belt has less impact on the diesel engine than on the gasoline
Yes and no. The AC compressor on the diesel is geared (belted) up more than on the gas engine due to lower operating RPMs. The pulley on the crank of the diesel is larger in diameter than the gas engine. As indicated I saw a 1 MPG decrease on the highway with light AC load (compared to no AC and windows closed). On a very hot day expect it will be 2-3.
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  #217  
Old 05-31-2012, 08:01 AM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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Took a trip to Chicago area this morning. Filled up last night to get a fresh baseline for trip. ~250 mls. Rain for 1/2 of the drive and ~15mph headwind for all of it. ~50F for temps. Mostly 70-75 mph. Indicated mpg's were 34.5 and hand calculated was 37.5 mpg's. This is the largest % difference between hand calculated and computer indicated I've ever measured (spreadsheet has every fillup and tracks hand calc vs indicated). Will keep tracking to see if it comes back inline. But 37.5 for these conditions seems to be about what I would've expected before the recall. So I'm not sure yet what to think of the impact to mpg's . . . just trying to shed some data on the situation but I might have muddied the waters more.
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  #218  
Old 05-31-2012, 09:57 AM
bmwBill001 bmwBill001 is offline
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My Post EGR Recall Mileage

I had my recall on May 22 at 40,785 miles. My mileage over the previous 10 re-fuelings has been 36.8 mpg. Since the recall, I've re-fueled twice, on 5/22 at 41,008 miles getting 37.1 mpg and 5/29 at 41,508 miles getting 35.8 mpg. I average over 3k miles per month of 90/10 hwy/suburban driving so will have a meaningful amount of miles to report on soon. By the way, I've averaged 36.31 mpg since the car was purchased on May 6, 2011.
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  #219  
Old 05-31-2012, 10:35 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Transmission adaptations lost due to re-programming

One thing that definitely is lost due to the re-programming is the transmission adaptations. Those adaptations have a significant affect on mileage (think DS vs. D mode). I've noted that the default on my car is more similar to DS than it was before - shifting at higher revs.
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  #220  
Old 05-31-2012, 02:21 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by DC-IT View Post
But the Passat TDI is able to get better FE than the Jetta TDI! Go figure!
.
I do not know if this is true but from what I have read that is because of less soot burn offs needed when DEF is used. I read that on some 18 wheeler explanation that was trying to make DEF sound appealing. It made me leave thinking that sounds like both the DPF and DEF need to leave for even better fuel economy.
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  #221  
Old 05-31-2012, 02:25 PM
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^ it is true. Passat TDI also has a higher EPA rating I think.

It has to do with the AdBlue system.
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  #222  
Old 05-31-2012, 02:42 PM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I do not know if this is true but from what I have read that is because of less soot burn offs needed when DEF is used. I read that on some 18 wheeler explanation that was trying to make DEF sound appealing. It made me leave thinking that sounds like both the DPF and DEF need to leave for even better fuel economy.
DEF is injected downstream of the Particle filter so cannot see it having any impact on regen cycles. The passat probably gets better mileage due to gearing, tranmsission and possibly aerodynamics.
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  #223  
Old 05-31-2012, 02:58 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by KeithS View Post
DEF is injected downstream of the Particle filter so cannot see it having any impact on regen cycles. The passat probably gets better mileage due to gearing, tranmsission and possibly aerodynamics.
For the Passat specifically I have read many things that say it gets better economy than the Jetta because of the use of DEF. Now whether that has anything to do with the reasons I saw stated for 18 wheelers is certainly debatedable.
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  #224  
Old 05-31-2012, 03:01 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Just google "will DEF improve fuel economy" and you will get a number of hits claiming around a 4% increase by using it. I'd not be surprised if they are biased reasons though.
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  #225  
Old 05-31-2012, 03:04 PM
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rmorin49 rmorin49 is online now
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My d was returned today to my home, washed and repaired. The following items were replaced:

EGR VAVE
O RING
RUBBER SEAL

Also replaced the AC compressor ribbed V belt.
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