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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:37 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
have you driven the s7?
Autounion sure hasn't and solstice doesn't have much work, just likes to belittle the F10

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
As usual we need to drive the car to know for sure but I'm not hopeful given the skidpad number that is very close to the F10.
And you are comparing the F10 on runflats, and the S6 on ...

Last edited by bm323; 05-11-2012 at 03:50 AM.
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  #52  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:49 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Seems to putting down near M5 numbers at a 550i-like pricepoint
"Seems"? The S6 won't be even near M5's smoke

For your viewing pleasure, M5 vs Panamera Turbo S http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kWNNV98ZjN4
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  #53  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:25 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Most M3 numbers I've seen are low 4 seconds not under and it weighs 700 pounds less than the S6. Either this car makes way more than 420 hp or something is wrong with these numbers.
i believe i have seen high 3s for M3 with DCT. not sure where
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  #54  
Old 05-11-2012, 06:26 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Isn't the weight difference 500 lbs and not 700? The S6 hp is more than likely underrated as most cars are nowadays. Keep in mind though that it's not only hp that matters in these runs, torque plays a role as well and the S6 dominates the M3 in this aspect.
Based on the sources I used (both are C and D), the C7 S6 weighs 4255 pounds and the M3 (in their comparo with the C63) weighs 3552 pounds.
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  #55  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:43 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
"Seems"? The S6 won't be even near M5's smoke

For your viewing pleasure, M5 vs Panamera Turbo S http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kWNNV98ZjN4
Holy crap the M5 ate up the Panny Turbo S.
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  #56  
Old 05-11-2012, 08:04 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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auto union may be a troll..


just sayin
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  #57  
Old 05-11-2012, 08:44 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Based on the sources I used (both are C and D), the C7 S6 weighs 4255 pounds and the M3 (in their comparo with the C63) weighs 3552 pounds.
Well the M3 is 3704 lbs as a coupe.
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  #58  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:20 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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auto union may be a troll..


just sayin
He's not a troll. He just has an unhealthy fantasy about VWs.

On any topic other than VWs, Autounion is a great forum member.

Anyway, this S6 seems like one of the better VWs. A great accomplishment for them. But certainly no M5, and I wouldn't choose it over a 550i either.
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  #59  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:27 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Most cars actually are not under (or over) rated today. Google "SAE certified horsepower". There are many factors that make up how fast a car is. Peak horsepower is but one of them. Actually, BMW has always been one of the best at getting the most out of the peak hp they put out.
Google dyno numbers for the N54,N55 and N63 and you find that the N54 gives about 330 hp ,the N55 about 320hp and the N63 close to 450hp at the crank with 15% drive train losses. Turbo engines are also notoriously uneven, some gives way more power than others of the same type.

The stock Audi S4 has been dyno'd to 330rwhp which with awd should put it over 400 hp. The new A6 3.0T at close to 300 rwhp or 350 plus at the crank. I doubt the new S6 will deviate from this pattern. It's likely underrated as well.
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  #60  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:34 AM
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its also 2 years late to the party.
I'd hardly call it late to the party. C7 A6 came out last summer and S6 is about to launch.
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  #61  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
auto union may be a troll..


just sayin
Just because you like anything with a roundel doesn't mean there can't be criticism for the brand...


I'm just not blindly enamored by the F10 like you are. BMW has gone from making the best car in its segment (E60) to possibly one of the worst. Lexus and Audi are all over BMW in this segment now (I can't believe I just put Lexus in the previous statement )
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  #62  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:50 AM
elitex elitex is offline
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He's not a troll. He just has an unhealthy fantasy about VWs.
Agreed, a little too much. I had a 2012 Audi, and trust me, they are not all that.
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  #63  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:52 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Just because you like anything with a roundel doesn't mean there can't be criticism for the brand...


I'm just not blindly enamored by the F10 like you are. BMW has gone from making the best car in its segment (E60) to possibly one of the worst. Lexus and Audi are all over BMW in this segment now (I can't believe I just put Lexus in the previous statement )
im not blindly enamored with my F10, hence my mods and numerous discussion points related to the differences between this car and the E60. now, i haven't driven the a6/7 either (the looks are a gating issue) but then again, neither have you. so i'm 1 for 2 in "knowledge of product" and you are battting .000

but at least i own one and have the ability to be much more subjective about it than a guy who is named after the company in which he professes to not be a troll for.

i believe disengenuous is the word
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  #64  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
im not blindly enamored with my F10, hence my mods and numerous discussion points related to the differences between this car and the E60. now, i haven't driven the a6/7 either (the looks are a gating issue) but then again, neither have you. so i'm 1 for 2 in "knowledge of product" and you are battting .000

but at least i own one and have the ability to be much more subjective about it than a guy who is named after the company in which he professes to not be a troll for.

i believe disengenuous is the word


I'd driven the A6/7 many many times. Not to mention, every variant of the F10 (except the M5 obviously)
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  #65  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:56 AM
elitex elitex is offline
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
im not blindly enamored with my F10, hence my mods and numerous discussion points related to the differences between this car and the E60. now, i haven't driven the a6/7 either (the looks are a gating issue) but then again, neither have you. so i'm 1 for 2 in "knowledge of product" and you are battting .000

but at least i own one and have the ability to be much more subjective about it than a guy who is named after the company in which he professes to not be a troll for.

i believe disengenuous is the word
Maybe an employee?
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  #66  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:58 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Holy crap the M5 ate up the Panny Turbo S.
Did you watch the second run? It was actually very close.
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  #67  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:58 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Well the M3 is 3704 lbs as a coupe.
It all depends on the test criteria. One may be a dry weight, the other full of fluids. As both weights I quoted are from Car and Driver tests, I assume the test criteria are the same. The M3 they tested was a coupe.
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  #68  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:00 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Just because you like anything with a roundel doesn't mean there can't be criticism for the brand...


I'm just not blindly enamored by the F10 like you are. BMW has gone from making the best car in its segment (E60) to possibly one of the worst. Lexus and Audi are all over BMW in this segment now (I can't believe I just put Lexus in the previous statement )
Best or worst is subjective. Which car has the highest sales volume? I don't know but I'd guess the 5 series outsells the Audi and the Lexus. If this is the case, I doubt BMW is crying in its beer.
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  #69  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:05 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Google dyno numbers for the N54,N55 and N63 and you find that the N54 gives about 330 hp ,the N55 about 320hp and the N63 close to 450hp at the crank with 15% drive train losses. Turbo engines are also notoriously uneven, some gives way more power than others of the same type.

The stock Audi S4 has been dyno'd to 330rwhp which with awd should put it over 400 hp. The new A6 3.0T at close to 300 rwhp or 350 plus at the crank. I doubt the new S6 will deviate from this pattern. It's likely underrated as well.
It would take a lot more than a quick google for me to put any credibility in dyno numbers. I have been around a lot of dyno runs and internet dynos. There is a lot to understanding dyno results and "losses" when trying to understand what they mean. Correction factors are also very important when looking at dyno results. I've seen the difference that 30-40 degrees temperature can make in how much hp and engine puts out. Also, using a 15% drivetrain loss is meaningless. It is what it is. In the Corvette world, that number was pretty close until the new SAE Certified rating system came out. Then the loss (on manuals) started looking more like 11%. But regardless of what it was on my Corvettes, there is no standard number you can arbitrarily apply - it just doesn't work that way.

I'm not saying that there not cars that do not meet the criteria of the SAE Certified standard - I don't know. But I am saying that I don't believe everything I read on the internet.
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Last edited by jjsC6; 05-11-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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  #70  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:33 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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I'd driven the A6/7 many many times. Not to mention, every variant of the F10 (except the M5 obviously)
i guess i should have said s7.
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  #71  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:27 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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There's no denying that Audi has given the S6 a formidable arsenal of dragstrip weaponary. A powerful highly tunable FI engine, awd and a DCT with launch control. BMW do currently not offer that combination in any sedan. I can see this becoming a favourite platform for dragstrip enthusiasts like dunderhi. Does it matter much to the rest of us, no probably not at all. Personally I couldn't care less if my car runs from 0-60 in 3.5s or 4.5s but I think it's rather petty to just dismiss the numbers as faulty and not give Audi some kudos for pushing the performance envelope. This will benefit all of you who are enarmoured with straight line performance. With the N63 BMW has the platform to respond if they choose. Depending how this plays out they could even feel the need to offer a DCT in a M performance version ( different from an M version. It's getting confusing with all the M types ) of the F10. And if they do that they could even offer a more performace oriented suspension. I love it when new cars of any make pushes the envelope and if they are better than my car even better, gives me a chance to trade up when it's time instead of risking to be dissapointed.

However, I'm not feeling the S6 at this moment, I don't like the styling and I'm highly skeptical about the athleticism of the chassi/suspension and precision and feedback in the steering after having driven the new A6 and S4.

Last edited by solstice; 05-11-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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  #72  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:33 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
There's no denying that Audi has given the S6 a formidable arsenal of dragstrip weaponary. A powerful highly tunable FI engine, awd and a DCT with launch control. BMW do currently not offer that combination in any sedan. I can see this becoming a favourite platform for dragstrip enthusiasts like dunderhi. Does it matter much to the rest of us, no probably not at all. Personally I couldn't care less if my car runs from 0-60 in 3.5s or 4.5s but I think it's rather petty to just dismiss the numbers as faulty and not give Audi some kudos for pushing the performance envelope. This will benefit all of you who are enarmoured with straight line performance. With the N63 BMW has the platform to respond if they choose. Depending how this plays out they could even feel the need to offer a DCT in a M performance version ( different from an M version. It's getting confusing with all the M types ) of the F10. And if they do that they could even offer a more performace oriented suspension. I love it when new cars of any make pushes the envelope and if they are better than my car even better, gives me a chance to trade up when it's time instead of risking to be dissapointed.

However, I'm not feeling the S6 at this moment, I don't like the styling and I'm highly skeptical about the athleticism of the chassi/suspension and precision and feedback in the steering after having driven the new A6 and S4.
I agree with you completely here. The current A6 with the 310 hp engine has run a 4.7 second 0-60 in tests I have read. I have no reason to doubt that with over 100 more hp that is is going to be very impressive if acceleration is important. I'm not going to lie, I love speed. But I have to love the overall car as well.
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  #73  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:08 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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I agree with you completely here. The current A6 with the 310 hp engine has run a 4.7 second 0-60 in tests I have read. I have no reason to doubt that with over 100 more hp that is is going to be very impressive if acceleration is important. I'm not going to lie, I love speed. But I have to love the overall car as well.
And those A6s numbers are without DCT and Launch control which probably can shave off
about 0.5s on it's own.
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  #74  
Old 05-11-2012, 01:23 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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unless otherwise proven to me, i think it nearly impossible for a car to go 0-60 in 3.7 with those specs.
I completely agree.

It must be incorrect.
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  #75  
Old 05-11-2012, 01:32 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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I agree with you completely here. The current A6 with the 310 hp engine has run a 4.7 second 0-60 in tests I have read. .
That was pretty much 1 test, from Motor Trend (it was 4.8).

Almost all others have been 5.1 to 5.3 seconds.
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