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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #26  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:46 PM
ard ard is online now
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I had a 2010 that I lemoned for PRECISELY the reasons they are doing this recall. I - and my tech with whom I spoke today- are convinced it is one of the data points that they used for this recall design. So I know there are issues with the cars.

Actually quite like Mroaadster2000 describes... but I got mine lemoned, didn't whine or wring my hands and wish BMW gave me better service. Just made them do it, nothing personal, no anger- done. New 2012 here.


This is NOT an issue in 2012s. It was addressed. there may be other issues with the 2012, but not this.

People that are not technical, nor particularly linear thinkers, crack me up. A single recall notice and they've decided the car is no longer a keeper? Great. Have a good life. Given the 8 year 80k warranty on this aspect of a car, it is the last thing that worries me. it is an emissions fault- this will NOT slip by... Other things worry me long term- but NOT a recall notice and not emissions.

This whole gas versus diesel thing is absolutely juvenile. There is a twit here that stirred it up for no good reason..don't be drawn into it, there is no end, just stupidity.

You buy a diesel or gas because you like it- NOT because one has higher reliability, or better gas mileage. It is a personal decision with no right answer...christ, you guys should argue blonds versus brunettes

A

PS 32k miles on my 'lemon' 2010...and I was NEVER stranded. Started and drove without fail. Middle of New Mexico and the CEL comes on and you tow it 300 miles? Why? Annoying? Yes. Stranded? No.
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  #27  
Old 05-16-2012, 10:41 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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I am going to stay out of making statements that are nothing more than personal opinions.

Here are the *facts* as it pertains to *my* MY2011 X5d.
  • I bought this car because I like diesels. My plans are to keep it for about 8-10 years and/or ~225K miles. Mine is a purchase, not a lease.
  • I now have over 34K miles, NEVER been stranded either away from home or in my garage. I did not hesitate to drive this car deep into the Death Valley area. Will do it again - yes even after this recall notice
  • So far two sensors, one EGR heat exchanger and one rear cam cable have been replaced. For all of them I got a loaner (note my service dealer and sales dealer are different) . . . all but in one case I got the car back within 24 hours. One took 7 days, part had to come from Germany.
  • Yes I got the recall notice couple of days back, scanned it and emailed it to my SA, Kevin T along with a list of days that are convenient for me to drop the car. Kevin got back within the hour of me sending the email, he picked the first date that was good for me and has booked a loaner for me. My *guess* they will install the new parts and have the car back to me within 24 hours.

My *guess* - the basic engine and car are just fine, when BMW tried to make this diesel 50-state compliant, they layered it with a bunch of sensors, electronics, etc . . . and these are not holding up that well. My guess - MY2012 should have fewer emission related problems.

Finally, I bought this car for the way it drives, not necessarily for some perceived extreme reliability. (My wife's Lexus convertible had its valve stem seals replaced at 52K miles - in Lexus' defense, they covered the $4,800 cost even though the car was way past factory warranty time-wise.)

I will quit buying a BMW when BMWs quit driving like they do.

Last edited by RPsX5d; 05-17-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2012, 12:25 AM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
This whole gas versus diesel thing is absolutely juvenile. There is a twit here that stirred it up for no good reason..don't be drawn into it, there is no end, just stupidity.

You buy a diesel or gas because you like it- NOT because one has higher reliability, or better gas mileage. It is a personal decision with no right answer...christ, you guys should argue blonds versus brunettes

A

PS 32k miles on my 'lemon' 2010...and I was NEVER stranded. Started and drove without fail. Middle of New Mexico and the CEL comes on and you tow it 300 miles? Why? Annoying? Yes. Stranded? No.
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:07 AM
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I have a March 2011 build vehicle, what is so different from the 2012 builds that were manufactured in 2011 ? I would assume by that time frame the bugs in the emission system would have been worked out, did BMW just mail the letter out to anyone with a 2009-2011 or was it vin specific, I have an appointment this Monday, for all I know I could be informed that I already have the latest and greatest especially since my EGR cooler was just replaced 3 weeks ago, I do realize that their are the other components involved so we shall see.
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2012, 05:16 AM
MRoaadster2000 MRoaadster2000 is offline
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Great discussion and perspective from some others who have had issues with this vehicle. I agree that BMW has an outstanding reputation for building rock solid engines and drive train components. What has me doubting my purchase is the lack of good communication about known issues with this car and what they are going to do to make it right. If these are issues are all emissions related then one has time ( under warranty) to find if the fix will work. For me this is not a matter of money it is a matter of trust and piece of mind in the vehicle that I am driving.

If I was convinced that this fix will solve the problem, I would keep tHis car, as planned, when I bought it. Your perspectives and input are appreciated.
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:10 AM
jashearer jashearer is offline
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I'm not sure I would say communication has not been good, you got a recall letter, and it had much more information in it then I've seen from other manufacturers I've received recalls from (cough GM cough).

With a widespread recall like this, they want to be 110% sure they have everything fully understood and have a plan in place to rectify it, nothing more embarassing or brand hurting then releasing a bunch of recalls related to the same issue because you can't get it fixed right the first time.

As ard said, you should have time under the emission warranty to evaluate this issue further to see if its rectified or not. They have Euro 6 emissions approaching (2014) that are very similar to our current standards, and the volume they sell in Europe will mean that in order to avoid costly mistakes they have a very heavily vested interest in getting it fixed right and fixed very soon so they can iron out any remaining bugs.

If the worrying is keeping you up all night by all means dump it, there are a lot of things worth losing sleep over at night, but a vehicle is definitely not one of them.

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  #32  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ductman View Post
I have a March 2011 build vehicle, what is so different from the 2012 builds that were manufactured in 2011 ? I would assume by that time frame the bugs in the emission system would have been worked out, did BMW just mail the letter out to anyone with a 2009-2011 or was it vin specific, I have an appointment this Monday, for all I know I could be informed that I already have the latest and greatest especially since my EGR cooler was just replaced 3 weeks ago, I do realize that their are the other components involved so we shall see.
I also have a late production MY11 (April) and most of the MY12 changes got rolled into the diesels, such as the LED Coronas, etc.

I think BMW just sent out a mass recall, which deals with all diesels that aren't MY12.
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:07 AM
MRoaadster2000 MRoaadster2000 is offline
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Cool

Kind of funny, but my idea of good communication isn't to be better than GM. Question is are the 2012's ok or are they next? Not trying to raise a stir, but without more info it is difficult to know. My experience with engineering design problems on previous cars has not been good. Sometimes the design is fundamentally flawed and the fixes just kick the can down the road far enough that a major model recall is avoided, only to have the problem reaccur beyond the warrantee period.

After reading all of your input I am going to stick this out for awhile and see how it goes. Thanks again for your views, it has helped. By the way my friend who had a rod come through the side of his block,seconds after getting a "check engine" light ,suspects that there was an injector that dumped fuel in the cylinder causing hydro lock . Emissions related? Luckily his car was still under warranty and he still had a really tough time with BMW corporate.

May the car gods be with us.
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:38 AM
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There's some serious venting going on in this thread.

There's nothing wrong or "sketchy" about the reliability of the X5d. So let's not spread misinformation. Overall the diesel is quite reliable. And if you think the X5M or X5 gas engines don't have recalls, then I can email them to you.

I agree with Ard in that the letter is a poor attempt at explaining the situation.

The recall is meant to address a situation which, under certain driving conditions (I read this to mean more stop and go type driving) for X5d's and 335d's produced from January 2010 to March 2011, the high pressure EGR valve may have some excessive soot buildup. This in turn will affect the emissions performance of the valve and then may lead to a service engine light coming on. BMW developed a new EGR valve to rectify this possible situation and will also re-program the DDE to "optimize this improved emissions monitoring component."

The engine will not blow up.

Do you want to know more about the design of the EGR or is this enough to calm some of us down?
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:08 AM
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chip4 chip4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
BMW developed a new EGR valve to rectify this possible situation and will also re-program the DDE to "optimize this improved emissions monitoring component."
The engine will not blow up.
Do you want to know more about the design of the EGR or is this enough to calm some of us down?
Thanks Jim for answering some of my questions instead of the personal attacks and arrogant attitudes on this thread.
Do you have a PN of new design EGR?
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  #36  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:22 AM
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Thanks Jim for answering some of my questions instead of the personal attacks and arrogant attitudes on this thread.
Do you have a PN of new design EGR?
11 71 8 517 217 or 11 71 8 512 526

217 is a current part while 526 is not yet in the system.
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  #37  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:24 AM
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Looks like I didn't get the Emission's Recall. The dealer scanned my key and there were no open recalls for my VIN.



BMW dealer called me out of the blue for this recall and the number on this recall is completely different.

I'm a late production MY11, so maybe the recalls were fixed?
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  #38  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Looks like I didn't get the Emission's Recall. The dealer scanned my key and there were no open recalls for my VIN.

BMW dealer called me out of the blue for this recall and the number on this recall is completely different.

I'm a late production MY11, so maybe the recalls were fixed?
X5d's and 335d's produced from January 2010 to March 2011.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:17 AM
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ductman ductman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
11 71 8 517 217 or 11 71 8 512 526

217 is a current part while 526 is not yet in the system.
I just had mine replaced due to leaking, March 2011 Build, Part number does not match with any of those, will they replace it again, also Auto Union shows a temp sensor replaced?

Here is my copy showing the part number.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bmw cooler.pdf (32.9 KB, 107 views)
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
11 71 8 517 217 or 11 71 8 512 526

217 is a current part while 526 is not yet in the system.
Thanks. They replaced my EGR cooler with: 11 71 7 812 513, Recall says they will replace (f required) one or more of the components.

AutoUnion: they replaced my charge air temp sensor too when my EGR cooler failed. -same PN as you listed I received no official notice.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:26 AM
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ductman ductman is offline
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Thanks. They replaced my EGR cooler with: 11 71 7 812 513, Recall says they will replace (f required) one or more of the components.

AutoUnion: they replaced my charge air temp sensor too when my EGR cooler failed. -same PN as you listed I received no official notice.
THat is the same part number that was replaced on mine back in April, the charge air temp sensor was never replaced on mine though, I have an appointment on Monday, curious what my key will read at that point.
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:47 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
. . . There's nothing wrong or "sketchy" about the reliability of the X5d. So let's not spread misinformation. Overall the diesel is quite reliable. . . .

I agree with Ard in that the letter is a poor attempt at explaining the situation.

The recall is meant to address a situation which, under certain driving conditions (I read this to mean more stop and go type driving) for X5d's and 335d's produced from January 2010 to March 2011, the high pressure EGR valve may have some excessive soot buildup. This in turn will affect the emissions performance of the valve and then may lead to a service engine light coming on. BMW developed a new EGR valve to rectify this possible situation and will also re-program the DDE to "optimize this improved emissions monitoring component." . . .

Do you want to know more about the design of the EGR or is this enough to calm some of us down?
I was going to PM you for more info - just to satisfy my curiosity, then came across the attached article from another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Looks like I didn't get the Emission's Recall. The dealer scanned my key and there were no open recalls for my VIN.



BMW dealer called me out of the blue for this recall and the number on this recall is completely different.

I'm a late production MY11, so maybe the recalls were fixed?
The charge air temperature sensor you indicate was also replaced on my 2011MY X5d (June 2010 build). Here is my history:
  • At 15,330 miles, CEL came on, Dealer replaced "charge-air temperature sensor", P/N 1 13-62-7-812-741
  • At 31,976 miles, dealer replaced the same "charge-air temp sensor", SA told me BMW wanted them to do it, P/N was different 1 13-62-8-519-444 - the same # you quote.
    In addition Dealer also replaced "exhaust cooler", P/N 1 11-71-7-812-513 . . . to address the occasional diesel smell I got inside the cabin under hard acceleration (>3,500 rpm).
  • At 33,846 miles, another CEL, Dealer replaced the oxygen sensor, P/N 1 13-62-7-801-158. BMW fault code was 447B. DIAGCODE: D1170-0000000V-11-001

I wonder whether all of these issues are related . . . and more importantly whether this emissions recall will fix them once and for all. My thinking - I am not a mechanic - the emissions system was not running properly, as a result some of these parts were getting "overloaded" and they failed. Again, just guessing here.

ard/others who have extensive experience dealing with emissions issues - do you see a connection here . . . and do you expect the current emissions repair (as described in the attached article) is a permanent solution?

PS: Not sure how I should be reading this: BMWUSA => Owners => Recall. Do all these recalls apply to my 2011MY X5? Any way to cross-verify using VIN? Will these recalls show when my SA scans my key FOB? I admit BMW website is not the best place for accurate info . . .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW Emissions Recall.pdf (100.2 KB, 88 views)

Last edited by RPsX5d; 05-17-2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason: additional info
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  #43  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:33 AM
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I wonder whether all of these issues are related . . . and more importantly whether this emissions recall will fix them once and for all. My thinking - I am not a mechanic - the emissions system was not running properly, as a result some of these parts were getting "overloaded" and they failed. Again, just guessing here.

ard/others who have extensive experience dealing with emissions issues - do you see a connection here . . . and do you expect the current emissions repair (as described in the attached article) is a permanent solution?

PS: Not sure how I should be reading this: BMWUSA => Owners => Recall. Do all these recalls apply to my 2011MY X5? Any way to cross-verify using VIN? Will these recalls show when my SA scans my key FOB? I admit BMW website is not the best place for accurate info . . .[/QUOTE]

What are the last seven of your vin?
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  #44  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ductman View Post
I just had mine replaced due to leaking, March 2011 Build, Part number does not match with any of those, will they replace it again, also Auto Union shows a temp sensor replaced?

Here is my copy showing the part number.
EGR cooler is not the same as EGR valve.
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  #45  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:07 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
. . . I wonder whether all of these issues are related . . . and more importantly whether this emissions recall will fix them once and for all. My thinking - I am not a mechanic - the emissions system was not running properly, as a result some of these parts were getting "overloaded" and they failed. Again, just guessing here.

ard/others who have extensive experience dealing with emissions issues - do you see a connection here . . . and do you expect the current emissions repair (as described in the attached article) is a permanent solution?


What are the last seven of your vin?
Thanks Jim E.

After I return home I will PM you the last 7 digits of my VIN #. Please post your response on this thread so others can see it too.

Thanks again.
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  #46  
Old 05-17-2012, 04:25 PM
BOMOW BOMOW is offline
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AutoGuide.com

"BMW has announced a recall of 24,340 vehicles in the U.S. that are equipped with diesel engines.

Model year 2009-2011 X5 xDrive 50i, X6 xDrive 50i and 3-series diesel models are affected by the recall. The company says that certain components, such as the SCR catalyst, DEF mixer and EGR valve may overstate the vehicles mileage, causing emission standards to be exceeded which makes the cars service engine light come one."

HybridCars.com

"The majority of potentially faulty vehicles are 3-series models about 21,600 of them, and the remainder is comprised of 2,740 X5 XDrive and X6 XDrive 50i vehicles from the 2011 and 2012 models years."
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  #47  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
Thanks Jim E.

After I return home I will PM you the last 7 digits of my VIN #. Please post your response on this thread so others can see it too.

Thanks again.
Ok according to your vin, you have an open campaign for M57 US Replacing EGR valve. Specifically, your X5 is subject to recall 11E-A03.

Your X5 was manufactured on 6/2010 so it falls within the January 2010 to March 2011 timeframe in the recall. The stars are aligned.

Your X5 was also part of the "Replace Charge Air Temperature Sensor" service action (SI B13 04 11) which appears to have been done according to your receipt. This service action covered M57Y diesel engine which were produced from 1/22/2008 to 4/31/2011. If your X5 falls within this date and you are not sure if it was handled, just look at your b-pillar label for code number 600. if 600 is punched out, it's been taken care of. If not, or there is no label, then the dealer will have to look it up in their system.

Last edited by Jim E.; 05-17-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:02 PM
georgejm georgejm is offline
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Some ou you guys need to up your meds a bit. So the big fear is your engine light may come on if you don't have these gizmos replaced at your next oil change. The ones freaking out really needs a Lexus (wife has a LS460). Come on man calm down and think, everyone has recalls and the jealous gasser in here who secretly wants a diesel is an idiot too just trying to get you worked up and you falling for it. Yep, I want to be around you when you get a flat just to sell tickets to the comedy show. Some of you crack me up, 35,000 mi stock tires and it AND IT HAS BEEN BULLETPROOF. For the love of god develop a backbone.
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  #49  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:17 PM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Originally Posted by BOMOW View Post
"BMW has announced a recall of 24,340 vehicles in the U.S. that are equipped with diesel engines.

Model year 2009-2011 X5 xDrive 50i, X6 xDrive 50i and 3-series diesel models are affected by the recall.

"The majority of potentially faulty vehicles are 3-series models about 21,600 of them, and the remainder is comprised of 2,740 X5 XDrive and X6 XDrive 50i vehicles from the 2011 and 2012 models years."
50i is a diesel engine??
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  #50  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:35 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
I wonder whether all of these issues are related . . . and more importantly whether this emissions recall will fix them once and for all. My thinking - I am not a mechanic - the emissions system was not running properly, as a result some of these parts were getting "overloaded" and they failed. Again, just guessing here.

ard/others who have extensive experience dealing with emissions issues - do you see a connection here . . . and do you expect the current emissions repair (as described in the attached article) is a permanent solution??
I've lived much of this issue in my 2010..not all, but a lot. Charge temp sensors (twice) reprogramming, intercooler R&R, SCR Catalysis (2x) O2 sensors...

BMW was chasing the root cause for quite some time...problem was it was manifesting after time and driving conditions got it to a certain point- and then the DDE would 'trap' things it saw as 'errors'...all kinds of things could cause this. I do NOT think they were having emissions failures- but rather 'out of process control' readings that tripped errors. You don't get into this with a press release- you just say 'emissions could increase and the CEL could come on'.

However, I do think ALL this is related- EGR, SCR cats, O2 sensors, airflow, charge air temp, intake temp sensor, software, etc, etc...all of it around the whole control and balance (and testing/checking) that goes into the emissions control.

Recalls are very expensive, and BMW surely has spent $$$ to try and make this a global fix. But until we know WHAT they are replacing (ie someone snags the SB) we dont know. It could be architected such that if you have had the prior EGR campaign, you only need X and if not you need X+Y...

I think I said earlier, the BEST issue to have in a car- as a consumer- is one that affects emissions.... nothing like having big government on your side.

I would not be at all surprised if BMW has to expand the parts covered in their California and Federal Warranties. There are rules that dictate what must be listed, and if someone at CARB or EPA wants to dig (or gets an on-point analysis/inquiry from a consumer) who knows what might occur.

A
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