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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2012, 06:57 PM
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kashrahman kashrahman is offline
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Advice - 528i or hybrid?

So wife loves her 535 GT xdrive, but is averaging 19 mpg. This is mostly city driving/driving style. We took a weekend trip, almost all highway, at 75-80 mph and got 28 mpg.

Anyhow, thinking ahead a few years from now, I know that wife will want something that is similar to what she has now BUT spends less at the pump. Given that her normal driving has quite a bit of stop and go, city traffic and she's not exactly a gentle driver AND still wants something that has "oomph" when she hits the pedal, I'm thinking she might actually love the 5 hybrid. Something with nice torque, and improves her city-heavy mpg. Or I could just get the 528 and teach her how to use sport mode. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2012, 07:00 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Hybrid is the best choice for stop and go. All the standing at lights. Accelerating from a stop, etc. It all benefits stop start and electric motors.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:06 AM
rhird rhird is offline
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I drove the 528 a few weeks ago and like everyone says it is very responsive. Really need to try it to believe it. Having said that I would love to drive the 5 hybrid before deciding
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  #4  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:15 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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your wife's driving habits sound exactly like mine. 19 MPG and tons of stop and go (although mine is worse, since i have a lighter sedan and no xdrive). Stop / Start makes a difference, a big difference. So does not having to run the engine when you want to move forward 20' in a line of traffic. Thats where the hybrid shines....can sit in traffic without bothering the engine and still keep you cool and all the toys running.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:01 AM
Art234 Art234 is offline
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There are a number of hybrid systems. I would thoroughly drive the hybrid when it becomes available. We also have a Lexus hybrid SUV and it gets amazing mileage for a 5k pound vehicle. I average 28-29 mpg in mixed driving, around 29-30 on the highway (more if I stay below 75), and 32-33 in stop and go. You will have to get used to the engine starting and stopping alot as the battery depletes and recharges, but it is not that difficult.

That said, hybrids require a different driving style, which after having a hybrid for 6 years now(this is our 2nd), my wife still hasn't figured out..her averages are a couple of mpg lower to be honest.

In comparison, my 535i x drive averages 23-24 in mixed driving, and as much as 31-32 on the highway.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Art234 View Post
There are a number of hybrid systems. I would thoroughly drive the hybrid when it becomes available. We also have a Lexus hybrid SUV and it gets amazing mileage for a 5k pound vehicle. I average 28-29 mpg in mixed driving, around 29-30 on the highway (more if I stay below 75), and 32-33 in stop and go. You will have to get used to the engine starting and stopping alot as the battery depletes and recharges, but it is not that difficult.

That said, hybrids require a different driving style, which after having a hybrid for 6 years now(this is our 2nd), my wife still hasn't figured out..her averages are a couple of mpg lower to be honest.

In comparison, my 535i x drive averages 23-24 in mixed driving, and as much as 31-32 on the highway.
Your Lexus hybrid uses Toyota's hybrid synergy drive, which is much different than the system in the BMW (and Infiniti, Audi, Porsche, Hyundai) in which the car uses a standard transmission with the motor sandwiched between and separated by a clutch.

They hybrid synergy drive has a planetary gear set which creates a quasi CVT effect.

The systems with the transmissions are much closer to standard cars in terms of driving, at the expense of a couple of MPG's.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:24 AM
zoombie99 zoombie99 is offline
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Isn't the GT getting a new engine this summer?
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:01 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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If you want trunk space avoid the hybrid. The battery eats up a huge part of the trunk
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
If you want trunk space avoid the hybrid. The battery eats up a huge part of the trunk
This. People need to look at this. I saw the 5AH at an auto show and it was tiny.

Honestly, if I was going hybrid, I'd go with the Lexus GS450h because it was designed from the ground up to have a Hybrid variant.

The 5 series implementation seems like an afterthought
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:58 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This. People need to look at this. I saw the 5AH at an auto show and it was tiny.

Honestly, if I was going hybrid, I'd go with the Lexus GS450h because it was designed from the ground up to have a Hybrid variant.

The 5 series implementation seems like an afterthought
The Lexus is the most practical hybrid, the BMW is probably a better driver's car. and Infiniti M Hybrid is the fastest hybrid.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:59 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This. People need to look at this. I saw the 5AH at an auto show and it was tiny.

Honestly, if I was going hybrid, I'd go with the Lexus GS450h because it was designed from the ground up to have a Hybrid variant.

The 5 series implementation seems like an afterthought
The F30 has no trunk intrusion. The platform was designed with battery space.
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The F30 has no trunk intrusion. The platform was designed with battery space.


That is pretty fantastic
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post


That is pretty fantastic
And the same power train as the Active 5, with less weight and a smaller platform. If you want a performance hybrid and don't NEED a 5, the F30 is where it's at. It will have a much more usable trunk than the F10 (haven't seen it) and the M35 (total joke, seen it in person).
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
And the same power train as the Active 5, with less weight and a smaller platform. If you want a performance hybrid and don't NEED a 5, the F30 is where it's at. It will have a much more usable trunk than the F10 (haven't seen it) and the M35 (total joke, seen it in person).
I'm really intrigued by the 3AH now actually. If BMW never brings a 320d, I could see myself in a 3AH, if the EPA numbers back it up
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:52 PM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This. People need to look at this. I saw the 5AH at an auto show and it was tiny.

Honestly, if I was going hybrid, I'd go with the Lexus GS450h because it was designed from the ground up to have a Hybrid variant.

The 5 series implementation seems like an afterthought
Yes I also saw the 5AH at the NY Auto show and was floored by the lack of trunk space. A nonstarter in a family sized car. Nice that BMW did not make the same mistake with the F30 active hybrid
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I'm really intrigued by the 3AH now actually. If BMW never brings a 320d, I could see myself in a 3AH, if the EPA numbers back it up
Hybrid MPG isn't a great benchmark. Hybrid is best in total stop and go and waiting. If you drive in those situations, you know it and will better the rated MPG.

I am also intrigued by this car. Truly a have your cake and eat it too vehicle.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:10 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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German makes great diesels, but a hybrid?????? I would stick to the Japanese.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:22 AM
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kashrahman kashrahman is offline
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thanks for the feedback everyone! Didn't know the F30 hybrid still had trunk space, but the wife likes 5/7 sized cars. I think the trunk space will be a major issue for her, but the only large hybrid vehicles that have trunk space that I can think of are the RX and tahoe/escalade hybrids. (the escape is too small for her). I personally like the idea of getting a diesel, but I think she will best benefit from a hybrid. She was complaining earlier about her 535 GT not having enough oomph, so I showed her the sport button (we have comfort, normal, sport, and sport+). Now she says she drives it in sport mode all the time!!

She did test drive an RX before getting the GT and I think the RX hybrid was a close second choice, but in the end she wanted to stick with something that was familiar (her third BMW, knows the idrive, etc) and prefer to stay with our BMW dealer (good experience, who picks up our car for service, etc) rather than switch to a non-BMW (take time off to take car in for service, etc). Next time around I'll show her the RX hybrid again but I think we'll end up with the 5 hybrid . . .
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:14 AM
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German makes great diesels, but a hybrid?????? I would stick to the Japanese.
We wouldn't be arguing between these cars, if BMW just brought the 535d. Guess they don't care enough about the US market
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:23 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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We wouldn't be arguing between these cars, if BMW just brought the 535d. Guess they don't care enough about the US market
As much as we like diesel engine here in this forum, most Americans still havenít warm up to the idea of a diesel yet. If one do the math, a hybrid just doesnít make sense, it takes years and years to break even on the hybrid's premium price. Frankly, I think itís more of an image thing for some people who do not want to be seen in a dirty diesel and rather be seen in a fashionable green hybrid. Somehow, they think they are doing their part in helping the environment
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:41 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
As much as we like diesel engine here in this forum, most Americans still havenít warm up to the idea of a diesel yet. If one do the math, a hybrid just doesnít make sense, it takes years and years to break even on the hybrid's premium price. Frankly, I think itís more of an image thing for some people who do not want to be seen in a dirty diesel and rather be seen in a fashionable green hybrid. Somehow, they think they are doing their part in helping the environment
Some points to ponder.

1) THe premium for the hybrid isn't as much as people make it out to be. THe starting MSRP is $8k more, but that includes about $5k of standard equipment on the 5AH not on the 5, so it's really about $3k, in the range of the diesel's price delta (based on the X5).

2) Diesel gains most of its efficiency on the highway. Hybrid gains most in the city. Depending on your driving habits, you may see significant fuel benefits from one, not the other.

3) Diesel tends to be as expensive as super, if not more. It does drop down in the summer, but overall it's equal at best.

4) Yes, there is an "image" thing. But based on my driving, the hybrid would be a better choice if I was trying to save as much fuel.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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