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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:14 AM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Location: Folsom
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
I think I found the rear noise problem, WTF??



I finally got it on the lift. Ummm, Lets see:
2001 Z-3 3.0L 78k miles, one owner, this is/was my daily driver.
Over 30 years of working on cars and I've never seen a part like this fail. Any thoughts or help?
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:02 AM
2.3z3 2.3z3 is offline
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Ouch! What does the rear diff. hanger look like?
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:32 AM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Location: Folsom
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
I'm not sure, I didnt know what else to look for!! The front of the subrame is almost broken through as well!! Any pics I can referance?
What should I do?
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:32 AM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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And the trunk floor.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2012, 10:42 AM
2.3z3 2.3z3 is offline
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Search for BMW Z3 subframe failure and you will find more info than you want. Yours is one of the more severe ones I have seen. Randy Forbes name will come up as he has a kit designed to fix the problem once the damage is repaired. I see you are in Folsom try http://www.schatzandkrum.com/performance.html in Sacramento I know they have done a few cars.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2012, 12:30 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
Thanks!! I can do the repair, I've got a friend with a shop setup at home to work in his World Challenge Viper, I just can't believe it failed like that!!!
I've been reading the threads on it, going to talk to BMW tomorrow, I'm not happy with this at all, spending over 50k when all was said and done between the Nav and hardtop and all, just really disappointed with BMW right now!
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:04 PM
tohbi tohbi is offline
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testimony to the flexible flyer reputation.
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2012, 04:27 PM
nfunk nfunk is offline
1998 BMW Z3 2.8L
Location: New Orleans
 
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Is there any preventive maintenance that can prevent this from happening without costing an arm and a leg?

Last edited by nfunk; 05-22-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2012, 05:05 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Location: Folsom
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
Does anyone have the steps and or torque specs to remove and replace this?
Also looking for a link for the Ireland bushings
I'm waiting for a call back from BMW, but I'm not holding my breath!
I've located a couple sub frames and if I have to I figured I'd replace the bushing before I tore into the car
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:55 AM
Benjamin757 Benjamin757 is offline
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Location: Chesapeake, Va
 
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Mein Auto: 1998 BMW Z3 2.8
Put a jack under it and tig weld it back together. At least you kow it won't break in that same spot again!
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:54 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Lol, thanks Ben, just looked in the trunk, I can see one crack, I'll take a look at the other side when I can, know anyone who wants to buys a 3.0l, steel gray with a hardtop? What do you think??
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2012, 04:57 AM
Benjamin757 Benjamin757 is offline
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Location: Chesapeake, Va
 
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Mein Auto: 1998 BMW Z3 2.8
Talking

I'd do it for you if you were local. I got my z3 for 1500 bucks and have had to weld everything it seems. It's all coming together though.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:01 AM
Benjamin757 Benjamin757 is offline
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Mein Auto: 1998 BMW Z3 2.8
oh yeah and relying on bmw is like watching water boil on an airplane at high altitude. You wait and wait and get nothing.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:22 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrafixer View Post
Lol, thanks Ben, just looked in the trunk, I can see one crack, I'll take a look at the other side when I can, know anyone who wants to buys a 3.0l, steel gray with a hardtop? What do you think??
You'll take a bigger loss selling a broken car; you're better off to fix it and (either) enjoy it again, or sell it as a car that has been repaired. Frankly though, seeing the actual suspension carrier cracked like that is not common__yours is the only one I've ever heard about, and damage in that specific area of the car is my specialty.

This is more like what I'm used to seeing...



You can E-mail me if you have any questions, or if you're interested in reinforcing the trunkfloor & differential mount: erandyforbes@aol.com
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:06 PM
nfunk nfunk is offline
1998 BMW Z3 2.8L
Location: New Orleans
 
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First off, I love my '98 Z3 2.8L!

But I would love to see graphical finite element analysis of this subframe structural failure. I don't know how something could have gotten by the engineers at BMW. Having two Toyota (Highlander and a 4x4 pickup) and a Lexus, I see the Japanese engineering is ahead of the Germans.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
I was just having that conversation with someone about the japanese cars!
On Wed. In taking it to the dealership so they can take a look at it. Can't wait to see happens!
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:30 PM
Pima Roadster Pima Roadster is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 BMW Z3 3.0
Keep the forum posted as to the results of your time with the dealership. At worse, it will be worth a few chuckles but hopefully it will be constructive from the dollar side. Good luck!
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:37 PM
tohbi tohbi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfunk View Post
I see the Japanese engineering is ahead of the Germans.
dunno about that. there's pros and cons both ways. i've found nipponese cars difficult to work on at times but the transmissions shift sooooo smooth compared to, well, my z3.

otoh, i purely loooove this 6-banger engine but i like torque while japan seems to prefer hp up in the high rpm range.
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:25 PM
yellowjack yellowjack is offline
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I would think some engineer over in Germany be on the first airplan to look over the part and give you a new one. I can't be leave the dealer would give you a cold shoulder. I would love to put couple stain gauges with a DAQ data acquisition system to find out the strain levels around the lip.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:10 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
The dealer is good in Roseville here, the 800 number for BMW north America took 5 days to call back and tell me to take it to the dealership the analyze and send pics to see of they're going to offer some help. I sure hope so. If not I've got a graphics Pinter I can print some pics out and put them on the back of my truck with some verbiage on there and park it across from the dealership to see if that gets their attention!!
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:49 PM
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jsc jsc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfunk View Post
First off, I love my '98 Z3 2.8L!

But I would love to see graphical finite element analysis of this subframe structural failure. I don't know how something could have gotten by the engineers at BMW. Having two Toyota (Highlander and a 4x4 pickup) and a Lexus, I see the Japanese engineering is ahead of the Germans.
Both the first and second generation Pathfinders we had had cracked exhaust manifolds, seemed to be almost a service item on those vehicles, a very common problem that didn't seem to be fixed in 15 years. Honda never seems to be able to engineer ball joints that last very long and I haven't ever had a Japanese car that has properly engineered rebound damping from the factory
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2012, 06:26 AM
nfunk nfunk is offline
1998 BMW Z3 2.8L
Location: New Orleans
 
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Mein Auto: 1998 BMW Z3 2.8L
My 1984 4x4 Toyota pickup with 280,000 miles has been through hell and back and has the original engine, 4 speed transmission, cooling system. I did retrofit the AC system to R134 to be eco-friendly and replaced the shocks at 150,000 miles. Other than tires, pads, batteries everything is original. My 2002 Toyota Highlander has 175,000 miles and haven't touched anything on the truck except for replacing the battery. The Lexus has 35,000 miles and again in perfect condition. These vehicles doesn't any cracked frames, sliding seat problems, cooling problems when over 60,000 miles, no VANOS issues, etc. Maybe I am just lucking with my Japanese vehicles, but I have many friends that have similar reliability with Japanese cars.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Z3, I know it is a different beast than other vehicles and I expect different issues. I just think that some of these issues could have been caught in the initial design phase, i.e., subframe cracking, crappy seat bushings, crappy VANOS "O" rings, etc.

Is Japanese engineering better than Germany engineering? I don't know. I leave that question for everybody else to answer.

Nick
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  #23  
Old 06-09-2012, 01:52 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
I got a call from my service rep. He said BMW is offering 2,500 to help with the repairs, he's getting some estimates on Monday. We'll see how those go!
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  #24  
Old 06-09-2012, 06:14 PM
Pima Roadster Pima Roadster is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 BMW Z3 3.0
That is fantastic news. Considering the age of the car, it sounds as if BMW is trying to make it right. I am curious if it is truly BMW USA making the offer or whether it is actually the dealership. The point is really moot I suppose- at least you are to receive substantial financial assistance to correct the problem which never have occured. Keep us posted as to what the repairs will entail.

Last edited by Pima Roadster; 06-09-2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: spelling error
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  #25  
Old 06-09-2012, 08:17 PM
Cobrafixer Cobrafixer is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 Z3 3.0L Roaster
I can't wait for the estimate, I figured it would cost me around 1k to do it right, that's with poli bushings and Randy's kit and a used subframe. I'm going to sell the car once it's fixed. I'm just done with it, if I would have know about the issues they have I would have kept an eye out for it!
I'll update when I have more info and let everyone know, and I wanted to thank Randy for all the info!!
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