BMW Loyalists - what would make you switch brand?

So - basic assumption: You're a BMW loyalist. This means you're loyal to the brand, passionate even. You drive a BMW, have perhaps always driven BMWs, or at least in recent times OR this is your first BMW, but you're sold for life. When considering a new car, you automatically assume it will be a new BMW - you may think about other brands, but not seriously.

Basic Question: Given the above, and assuming we're talking about reality here, what would it take to make you switch brands?


For me - easy, I'm not loyal to any brand, so I don't fit the above profile. I have 5 different brands at home right now. I have brands I prefer, and brands I stay away from, but it varies depending on what I'm looking at - classic car versus work truck, for example. Luxury cars? I've only ever owned one - Mercedes - and as my recent 535i order would suggest, they didn't win me over. I tend to go by the car first, brand second.


How about you? How about you frothing BMW loyalists - what would it take for you to switch?

Kinda the same as you, I am looking at a 911 right now as BMW does make a nice two seater but nothing that can compare for that type. I love my 550 and would buy again for the type of auto it is

Not a loyalist, but BMW is on my list every time I buy a new car, provided they make the kind of car I am looking for. For instance, I am not going to buy a BMW to haul my boat, they just don't have anything that can equal a 1 ton truck (350/3500).

I will admit that I will give more consideration, all other things being equal, to vehicle brands that I have owned previously that have given me a good experience (BMW, Lexus, Ford) over brands I have no experience with. That said, if I have a bad experience with a brand, I will give it less consideration unless I have determined to my satisfaction that they have taken steps to remedy the problem. If I have a horrible experience with a brand...say a steering rack ripping off the frame when running down the highway, I will never consider them again. So, for me, I guess I am the opposite of the type the OP wants to hear from...I have a list of manufacturers that I won't buy from and it would take something pretty spectacular for me to consider them again.

I'm a non-denominational car purchaser. I buy whatever seems to be the best car for the money that is appealing to my eyes and psyche at the time of purchase. In the past I've owned MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Acura, Volvo. Came very close to pulling the trigger on an A6 this time but the general state of chaos over at the Audi dealerships and their unmotivated approach at sales really turned me off.

Not a loyalist.

When I am looking for new car, I have to take into consideration of:

1) price
2) styling
3) performance
4) who can offer me the highest trade in value of current car

If the above ends up being other brands, then it's also a great chance to experience it.

This is my first BMW (two months old now). While I don't fit the mold, I'll throw in my .02 worth.

The BMW is a fabulous car from the standpoint of just going down the road. Solid, quiet, effortless. Exceptionally comfortable and fantastic features. I have told people that the car feels like the $76,000 that it listed for.

But here is the negative. The car has quirks that I just don't get. Why does it seem like it's okay for "the ultimate driving machine" to have a hitch in its get-along when you pull away from a stop? Why do I have to push the start/stop button twice to turn it off (and don't forget you foot has to be off the gas for the second push or it will restart). Why do I have to pull the inside door handle twice to open the door? Why does BMW think we in the U.S. don't need to see our tire pressures? Why do I have to remember to put it back in sport mode every time I get back in the car (oops, stopped for gas, have to remember. Oops ran into the store to pick something up - have to remember....).

The problem is that the competition is getting a whole lot better, and they don't force you do get up in the morning and face Germany and salute before the car will start. BMW needs to understand that not everyone is going to blindly put up with their quirks and do things their way just to experience "the ultimate driving machine".

Yes, I love the car. But the problem with BMW's quirks is that you are reminded of them every time you get in the car and every time you get out of the car.

Originally Posted by jjsC6

This is my first BMW (two months old now). While I don't fit the mold, I'll throw in my .02 worth.

The BMW is a fabulous car from the standpoint of just going down the road. Solid, quiet, effortless. Exceptionally comfortable and fantastic features. I have told people that the car feels like the $76,000 that it listed for.

But here is the negative. The car has quirks that I just don't get. Why does it seem like it's okay for "the ultimate driving machine" to have a hitch in its get-along when you pull away from a stop? Why do I have to push the start/stop button twice to turn it off (and don't forget you foot has to be off the gas for the second push or it will restart). Why do I have to pull the inside door handle twice to open the door? Why does BMW think we in the U.S. don't need to see our tire pressures? Why do I have to remember to put it back in sport mode every time I get back in the car (oops, stopped for gas, have to remember. Oops ran into the store to pick something up - have to remember....).

The problem is that the competition is getting a whole lot better, and they don't force you do get up in the morning and face Germany and salute before the car will start. BMW needs to understand that not everyone is going to blindly put up with their quirks and do things their way just to experience "the ultimate driving machine".

Yes, I love the car. But the problem with BMW's quirks is that you are reminded of them every time you get in the car and every time you get out of the car.

The "quirks" you describe make perfect sense to me. But I'm part German. I don't "put up" with the "quirks". I understand the reasons behind them and appreciate their usefullness. Maybe I'm not the only one. Who knows for sure one way or the other?

I am a BMW loyalist and I am cross shopping brands right now. I generally stay within the BMW family unless BMW does not have a model that fits my needs. My current situation is that we want an SUV for travel purposes and the x5 is just not big enough. After having 3 x5's it is hard to spend 70k plus and still not have enough storage space to carry all of your stuff. I wish BMW made an x7, but they don't so I am shopping Range Rover Supercharged and MB GL550......

I guess I could be called a BMW Loyalist, having driven 4 different models over the past 12 years. Since I have been contemplating replacing my current 2008 BMW 528i as a daily driver I have been visiting dealerships and driving the models I have been considering for my next driver. The models I have considered are the 2012 BMW 535i, the 2012 BMW 528i, the Audi A-6, the 2012 Mercedes E-350 and the new 2013 Lexus GS350. Normally the BMW would be my first choice, however I have become very disappointed in the direction BMW has been going with the new models. The reasons I have decided not to buy another BMW as a replacement is because of 5 issues I have with the new models.
1. Run Flat tires. I hate them. I had to replace 2 within the 1st 6 months they were on my previous car. You can’t buy a BMW without them. If you suffer a massive blowout due to road debris you are out of luck without a spare. The wheels these tires are mounted on are highly subject to damage. (See the March issue of Car and Driver for their comments on their 2011 535i and the numerous problems they had with these tires and wheels).
2. The Hesitation Problem. This also drives me nuts. After test driving 2-535i’s (one with Sports Package and one without), a 328i, and a 528i, the throttle hesitation is just unacceptable. You mash on the gas and the car sits and thinks about what it’s going to do for a second or so, then it takes off. Not desirable for a premium automobile. Hopefully the new Global Update will improve that. So far, the results are mixed.
3. The loss of steering/road feel in the new models. This is a definite downgrade for “The Ultimate Driving Machine. There is very little road feel with the new steering system and several models I’ve driven have the pull to the right that many are complaining about. There seems to be no conclusive fix in sight. Hopefully, the new Global Update will have positive affect on this. Again, results seem to be mixed..
4. The inane charging system these cars have on them (Brake Regeneration or something like that) whereby the battery only charges with the foot off the gas pedal or the brakes engaged, necessitating using a Battery Tender to keep the battery charged if you aren’t driving 30 or more miles a day. Absolutely ridiculous engineering from a consumer’s viewpoint.
5. And last, the Stop/Start system. The 528i I drove “stumbled” every time it shut off, and “stumbled” again when it restarted after the brake was released. As one forum member put it, “If I wanted a golf cart, I would have bought a golf cart.” Thankfully this can be disabled by pressing another button each time you start the car. It should be optional to totally disable this ridiculous feature.

The next car considered was the Audi and I dismissed it simply because it did not appeal to me. I didn’t care for the exterior appearance, the interior, or the overall driving experience. I’m sure it’s a fine car but it’s just not my cup of tea.

As a past owner of a Mercedes, I was excited when the new models came out in 2012. When it appeared I didn’t see much difference. It is a tired and obsolete design badly in need of a re-design. The profile of the E-350 reminds me of a roller skate. I can’t get that image out of my mind. The cheap interior with its fake leather and its plastic seats was the ultimate turn-off. The performance of the E-Class comes in last of the cars I have considered…..by far. This car needs some serious up-grading and design changes to compete in the current luxury/performance car market. It sounds like the 2014 models will address these issues.

And lastly, the newly introduced Lexus GS350. A controversial design that you either like or don’t like. I like it. It is innovative and aggressive looking and the overall quality of Lexus has been at the top of every major quality poll for years. If you haven’t driven one, you’re missing a treat. The performance of the non-turbo 306 H.P. engine is remarkably responsive with an instantaneous, rapid acceleration missing in the turbo-charged cars mentioned above. . The 0-60 times are identical to the 535i and blow away the Mercedes E-350. (in the June Road and Track comparisons, the GS350 beat the 535i in performance and drivability. They called the GS350 “the new Ultimate Driving Machine.”) And the interior beats them all and has more features and amenities that you will find in any of the cars mentioned. The standard sound system is excellent with an upgrade available that should satisfy even the most demanding audiophile. And at a price that is about $10K less than a comparably optioned 535i, makes it a real value in today’s luxury car market.
These are only my opinions and everyone makes their own choice based on their own opinions. Some will have to have the Roundel on their hood, while others wouldn’t think of driving anything without the 3-pointed star on their hoods. I respect their opinions. I tried to make a choice that would meet my expectations for a new daily driver and have no desire to insult anyone else’s choice of “The Ultimate Driving Machine.” I will be keeping the old reliable ‘08 528i, but for now, the GS350 meets my expectations for a new daily driver.

I've considered others, such as lexus, mercedes, audi..For one reason or another, I've always come back to BMW

In the past 11 years Ive had
2001 740il
2003 x5
2005 540 m sport
2001 330xi (2 of these)
2005 325 xi
2008 M5
2008 335xi

and now the 2012 550xi m sport

(add 3 GMC avalanches, 1 2009 tsx acura to that list too)

I've had times I've sworn I wouldn't go back to bmw, but that usually wasn't because I didn't like the car. For me, I can't get the visceral feel with other brands. I almost purchased a 2012 mercedes amg c series. Roared, went fast, but didn't 'feel' like a controlled powerhouse as I have had with BMW. Lease payments were better (better residuals on the Mercedes), but once I saw the 550 xi land at the dealer, that was it, I was done and bought it then and there.

Audi dealer= bad dismissive experience just looking at cars. I guess I should not have wore jeans that day.

I simply cannot get the feel that I get with anything but a BMW. For now, don't see me switching. Now I'm looking at the new M6~and here I go again.

Originally Posted by richschneid

The "quirks" you describe make perfect sense to me. But I'm part German. I don't "put up" with the "quirks". I understand the reasons behind them and appreciate their usefullness. Maybe I'm not the only one. Who knows for sure one way or the other?

You appreciate the "usefulness" of having to select auto cut off OFF Every time you start the car again ? Of couse if you want your 60k plus car to shutter everytime you stop at a light because the engine shuts off you could just leave it alone. And you appreciate usefulness of having to select the sport model every time you start the car ?

This is my first BMW and I love it but there are definately things that are straight up LAME about the car. I would suggest to everyone they read the coding section of Forum. Guys are fixing these lame parts of the car and turning theirs into the car it should have been from the factory. You can easily have the car remember you selected auto shut off, all the disclaimers off, have the car remember the sport setting etc with a $10 cable a laptop and your time.

It's awesome having the car remember you don't like auto shut off and the last mode you selected (sport,etc). What BMW fails to understand is not everyone wants their default settings. I'm not going to blame them for all of the irritating disclaimers because that is America's fault. We are such a litigious country the lawyers convinced them they need to be there.

Overall I'm very glad I bought my first BMW and now that I fixed the lame parts of the car with a simple coding I really love it.

I am loyalist having owned 11 BMWs in the last 20 odd years. However I have wandered twice, while still having a BMW in the garage. I tried a MB E500 in 2003 and still have Jag XF Premium (2010). I have just bought a new 528i.

What made me go for another car? In a word aesthetics. BMW make the best driving machines available to someone like myself and once you have driven a BMW it is difficult to drive another make. However BMW do not make the most beautiful cars in the world - in my opinion anyway - (there are some notable exceptions like the Z4 Coupe which we own and which has had many an appreciative glance). They are handsome but not beautiful. Given that the choice of a car is as much an emotional choice as a rational one, every so often I have wanted to try something different and have been willing to compromise, to some extent, on the driving experience.

The XF Jag is possibly, in my opinion anyway, one of the best looking cars on the road in this segment. I can tell you that there have been more people come up to me and said what a beautiful looking car the XF is than they have ever said this about a BMW. This is not the sole criteria for car purchase and may or may not be important to you but occasionally it makes the difference in loving and hating a car.

The 528i in Space Grey with M Sport package, is a good looking vehicle but when I put it next to the Silver XF we own, there is no doubt which gets the attention and it is not the BMW. The BMW is a superb driving machine and is beautifully built. It appeals to the engineer in me. The Jag is raw emotion. It does not drive as well, but drives well enough, it is not as well made, but it is built well enough and it makes you feel good. The reason I came back to BMW, I want a drivers car that did not consume the fuel that the 5.0L 385 bhp engine in the Jag does. Jag do not have one, BMW do.

Originally Posted by richschneid

The "quirks" you describe make perfect sense to me. But I'm part German. I don't "put up" with the "quirks". I understand the reasons behind them and appreciate their usefullness. Maybe I'm not the only one. Who knows for sure one way or the other?

My last name starts with "Sch...." also, but I don't understand how anyone can say it makes sense to have to put the car back in the mode you like every time you get in the car, or that you cannot see the tire pressures (what's the downside to that one?) or that the car hesitates every time you pull away from a stop...?

With due respect, I don't think you understand the reasons behind the quirks so much as you defend them because you are so loyal to the brand.

Originally Posted by jjsC6

My last name starts with "Sch...." also, but I don't understand how anyone can say it makes sense to have to put the car back in the mode you like every time you get in the car, or that you cannot see the tire pressures (what's the downside to that one?) or that the car hesitates every time you pull away from a stop...?

With due respect, I don't think you understand the reasons behind the quirks so much as you defend them because you are so loyal to the brand.

I think Rich was talking about the other "quirks" you mentioned, which you ignored here.

1) Double push of OFF to stop car: compare with two position keyed ignition. One press/turn goes to accessory/radio readiness mode; 2nd push/turn shuts everything off. No big deal to me, I just press it twice without thinking about it. Granted, my previous E90 would shut down completely when holding the button for a second or two, but oh well...

2) Double pull of the door handle to open: I don't know about you, but I've driven German cars now since 1999. Don't most other cars still make you unlock the door first before you can open it? Maybe not. In any event, the first pull unlocks the door, the second pull opens it. I'm used to it, again no big deal. When I have passengers with me I just push the central unlock to avoid the confusion. Personally, I'm not sure I want my locked door to unlock with a single pull.

Quirks aside, I think I already made up my mind and my next car will be a Mercedes convertible, not sure which one, but I have a few years to make up my mind.

If some other car builder would just put the roundel on his build, I would consider buying it, even when it originated from Australia, Asia or America.
But I would never buy another Lada that is not coming from the original builder!!

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Quirks aside, I think I already made up my mind and my next car will be a Mercedes convertible, not sure which one, but I have a few years to make up my mind.

Have you taken a look at the new E convertible? It's really a C-Class underneath I believe. The initial ads were very enticing, but when I went to see it, well sort of another story. Tiny back seat as well.

Well, repackaging of the options on the '12 doesn't make me too happy, I hope they straighten this out by 2014, my target for replacing my '11. $2000 now for premium package, which since leather is now standard, I don't really need except the only way to get the garage door opener??? STUPID... Dropping the stand-alone anthracite headliner, not so much a show-stopper, but disappointing still the same.

Originally Posted by jjsC6

My last name starts with "Sch...." also, but I don't understand how anyone can say it makes sense to have to put the car back in the mode you like every time you get in the car, or that you cannot see the tire pressures (what's the downside to that one?) or that the car hesitates every time you pull away from a stop...?

With due respect, I don't think you understand the reasons behind the quirks so much as you defend them because you are so loyal to the brand.

I understand the reasons for the quirks. My car doesn't hesitate when pulling away from a stop. The sport mode cannot be default in order to avoid an EPA gas guzzler tax. The car will stay in either normal or comfort as the default mode. But the transmission part of the sport mode gives much worse gas mileage. I don't care about the tire pressures unless they are abnormal. The double push to stop the car allows me to turn off the engine in my garage and continue to listen to the end of a song on the radio by staying in accesory mode. The double pull on the door handle is so that you don't open a locked door without first unlocking it. If the door is not locked it will open with one pull. I always use the button on the dash to unlock the doors before I and my passengers get out.

This has nothing to do with brand loyality. The brand loyality comes from the fact that I think BMW makes the best cars for the money I spend. If I had different needs in a car I would buy a different brand of car.

Originally Posted by markl53

I think Rich was talking about the other "quirks" you mentioned, which you ignored here.

1) Double push of OFF to stop car: compare with two position keyed ignition. One press/turn goes to accessory/radio readiness mode; 2nd push/turn shuts everything off. No big deal to me, I just press it twice without thinking about it. Granted, my previous E90 would shut down completely when holding the button for a second or two, but oh well...

2) Double pull of the door handle to open: I don't know about you, but I've driven German cars now since 1999. Don't most other cars still make you unlock the door first before you can open it? Maybe not. In any event, the first pull unlocks the door, the second pull opens it. I'm used to it, again no big deal. When I have passengers with me I just push the central unlock to avoid the confusion. Personally, I'm not sure I want my locked door to unlock with a single pull.

Every car I have owned as long as I can remember the doors auto unlock when you either turn it off or put it in park. Double pushing would be easy if you didn't have to take your foot off the gas. Because of the idiotic push button "Park" setting, I live in fear that I don't have the car in park so I keep my foot on the brake when I turn it off (actually, I do that in all cars, but the park button does make me nervous as hell).

Originally Posted by richschneid

I understand the reasons for the quirks. My car doesn't hesitate when pulling away from a stop. The sport mode cannot be default in order to avoid an EPA gas guzzler tax. The car will stay in either normal or comfort as the default mode. But the transmission part of the sport mode gives much worse gas mileage. I don't care about the tire pressures unless they are abnormal. The double push to stop the car allows me to turn off the engine in my garage and continue to listen to the end of a song on the radio by staying in accesory mode. The double pull on the door handle is so that you don't open a locked door without first unlocking it. If the door is not locked it will open with one pull. I always use the button on the dash to unlock the doors before I and my passengers get out.

This has nothing to do with brand loyality. The brand loyality comes from the fact that I think BMW makes the best cars for the money I spend. If I had different needs in a car I would buy a different brand of car.

Rich, if the sport setting is only set for the suspension (as I have mine) then it makes no difference for your fuel mileage. BTW, the 2012 does not have a Normal & Comfort mode. It has Comfort, Sport, Sport + and Comfort +.

You say you don't care about tire pressure. True story - I have had happen to me in two other vehicles. I've gotten a low tire pressure warning and had no idea if they were flat or not. I got off the freeway (once in a not so nice area) to check my tires only to find out they had 30 lbs in them. On a Cadillac CTS I had the warning go off, but I was able to watch the pressure drop very quickly because it actually shows the pressure. I had enough information to make the right decision on what action to take. While run flats mitigate that issue, it is still worth knowing. Besides, I'd rather look at my pressures every time I drive the car rather than check them occasionally with a gauge - far less convenient and you let a little air out of the tires usually when you check them.

As to listening to the radio when you turn the engine off, GM figured this out years ago. When you open the doors the accessory mode goes off.

Double pull of the door latch I get, but there are other ways of addressing that that virtually every other manufacturer has figured out (see my answer above).

Guys you can just code out some of these issues yourself and it's not that hard. Believe me when I say I was scared to mess up the software in my first brand new BMW.

But it was really easy.

When you turn off the engine the doors can unlock so you don't have to double pump them.

You can stop having to disable auto stop every time you drive the car.

If you are too nervous to do it yourself there is going to be people in every big city soon who will code it for you for cheap. That way you can fix the things that piss you off and enjoy one bad ass car.

Originally Posted by markl53

Have you taken a look at the new E convertible? It's really a C-Class underneath I believe. The initial ads were very enticing, but when I went to see it, well sort of another story. Tiny back seat as well.

I didn't care for the E Class convertible either, but I mispoke when I said convertibles, I meant roadsters (2 seats). I can't figure out why manufacturers feel the need to put limited-use back seats in their cars.

Originally Posted by jjsC6

Every car I have owned as long as I can remember the doors auto unlock when you either turn it off or put it in park. Double pushing would be easy if you didn't have to take your foot off the gas. Because of the idiotic push button "Park" setting, I live in fear that I don't have the car in park so I keep my foot on the brake when I turn it off (actually, I do that in all cars, but the park button does make me nervous as hell).



Rich, if the sport setting is only set for the suspension (as I have mine) then it makes no difference for your fuel mileage. BTW, the 2012 does not have a Normal & Comfort mode. It has Comfort, Sport, Sport + and Comfort +.

You say you don't care about tire pressure. True story - I have had happen to me in two other vehicles. I've gotten a low tire pressure warning and had no idea if they were flat or not. I got off the freeway (once in a not so nice area) to check my tires only to find out they had 30 lbs in them. On a Cadillac CTS I had the warning go off, but I was able to watch the pressure drop very quickly because it actually shows the pressure. I had enough information to make the right decision on what action to take. While run flats mitigate that issue, it is still worth knowing. Besides, I'd rather look at my pressures every time I drive the car rather than check them occasionally with a gauge - far less convenient and you let a little air out of the tires usually when you check them.

As to listening to the radio when you turn the engine off, GM figured this out years ago. When you open the doors the accessory mode goes off.

Double pull of the door latch I get, but there are other ways of addressing that that virtually every other manufacturer has figured out (see my answer above).

I'm sorry these "quirks" bother you. They don't bother me, however. Suppose I want to leave the car in accessory mode and get out of the car and listen to the radio. I want the choice. I have no fear that when I push the "P" button that the car will not go into park. This is true even when the shift lever is to the left. When you push the "P" button the lever moves by itself back to the right, or normal, position simultaneously with putting the tranmission into park. I find this level of engineering to be astounding.

I have been driving with BMW designed tire pressure monitoring systems since my 650i in 2005 and have never had any problems with false alarms. The fact that you had a problem with a Cadillac system might be a good reason why you switched to BMW. And besides as you mentioned the BMW has RFTs.

From a post about the 2012 cars my understanding is that "comfort" is 2012 is the same as "normal" in the 2011, and "comfort plus" in the 2012 is the same as "comfort" in the 2011. You said you wanted the default to be "sport" in your car. Will your car allow you to have a default of "comfort plus". If so it is exactly the same as mine is except the words have changed not the systems.

I wonder what percentage of F10 owners are similarly bothered by these "quirks" to the same degree as you are. I find nothing wrong with them. In fact, I think they are well thought out by the BMW engineers and the quality of their thought processes actually adds to my "brand loyality" rather than detracts from it.

I do not want my doors to automatically unlock just because I turn off the engine. This is a safety feature when driving very expensive cars subject to car jacking. I unlock the doors with the button on the dash. The double action locks in the doors allow the passengers to exit the car even if I forget to unlock the doors with the button. The entire system makes absolutely perfect sense to me.

BTW, I usually drive my car in the normal or comfort suspension settings and constantly shift back and forth between normal and sport on the tranmission setting using the shift lever only. It all seems extremely well thought out and engineered. I do use the sport setting for the suspension on occasion and then use the shift lever to change the sport tranny settings from auto to manual depending on the conditions. It all seems very easy to me and saves the gas guzzler tax. I think the gas guzzler tax can be as much as $3000, but I'm not sure.

Where I do agree with you is that I think it should be possible to have the "sport suspension" setting available as the default mode while leaving the transmission default in normal. Of course, when I have the suspension set into sport mode I always concomittantly have the transmission in sport mode. So, being able to leave just the sport suspension without the sport tranmission setting as a default setting wouldn't make much sense to me since I always use the two together. My 650i "sport button" didn't have adjustable suspension it just changed the steering effort, throttle response, and shift points. But you always had to push it every time you started the car again.

So, my understanding of these "quirks" just adds to my brand loyality and does not occur because of my brand loyalty.

Thank lawyers (and the stupid people that did hire them in the first place) for all the "quirks" you guys complain about. I notice all "quirks" are mostly coming from NA. One common NA "quirk" that comes to my mind is the non closing windows/trunks through the remote.
As Griffin27 said, code your car. Something to think about, why the "quirks" are unquirkable through an enable/disable coding.

BMW is good value

Beyond that Porsche makes a good car