Infiniti trimming G line

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...gines-for-2013

Since the G25 will be gone, it opens up a the market a little bit for the 328. I found it harder to parse the G37 cutbacks, and can't tell if it will have any impact on the 335 market.

Edit: fixed thread title

Originally Posted by Squidget

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...gines-for-2013

Since the G25 will be gone, it opens up a the market a little bit for the 328. I found it harder to parse the G37 cutbacks, and can't tell if it will have any impact on the 335 market.

Thanks for the article. Interesting since my last car was a G35 and I really liked that car.

PLEASE, PLEASE, get it correct though. It's spelled Infiniti. This mistake happens much too much....

Originally Posted by mossman35

Thanks for the article. Interesting since my last car was a G35 and I really liked that car.

PLEASE, PLEASE, get it correct though. It's spelled Infiniti. This mistake happens much too much....

Oh wow. I never realized it spelled that way. THanks for correcting.

Originally Posted by Squidget

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...gines-for-2013

Since the G25 will be gone, it opens up a the market a little bit for the 328. I found it harder to parse the G37 cutbacks, and can't tell if it will have any impact on the 335 market.

The G25 was never aimed at the 3-series which, even in a basic form, was priced in an entirely different market. The natural competition for this car was the IS250 and the TSX.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

The G25 was never aimed at the 3-series which, even in a basic form, was priced in an entirely different market. The natural competition for this car was the IS250 and the TSX.

So that would seem to indicate that the TSX and IS250 aren't competitors to the 328??? No way..... Do you actually think BMW is that far above the others? BMW clearly has it's advantages but they are still competitors. People are still going to cross shop them.

I like my car, and I clearly see the the benefit over the G35 (my last car) but no way I would say the G37 doesn't compare to the 335i and the same for G25 and 328.

I always thought the G25 was a stupid idea. The car is too big and heavy for a smaller V6. Also, the G25 wasn't cheap enough (compared to the G37).

Having said this, if I was looking at a 328 auto (E92) there is no way I would choose it over a G37. Not even close. There is no way the BMW name or slightly better handling would overcome the increased power, cheaper price (with more options) and far superior auto transmission of the G37.

If I wanted a manual with AWD the 328 has a huge advantage.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

The G25 was never aimed at the 3-series which, even in a basic form, was priced in an entirely different market. The natural competition for this car was the IS250 and the TSX.

Car and Driver and other magazines don't agree with you either..


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...g-sedan-review

From article linked above:

Top Competitors>

Acura TSX
Mercedes-Benz C-class
Cadillac CTS sedan
Audi A4 sedan
BMW 3-series sedan

Who buys a $61k Infiniti vert?

Originally Posted by mossman35

So that would seem to indicate that the TSX and IS250 aren't competitors to the 328??? No way..... Do you actually think BMW is that far above the others? BMW clearly has it's advantages but they are still competitors. People are still going to cross shop them.

I was talking mostly about price. In the Acura line, the TL competes more firmly in price with the 3-series.

I do also believe the 3-series is far superior to those two vehicle in terms of dynamics, but that is another issue.

Originally Posted by mossman35

I like my car, and I clearly see the the benefit over the G35 (my last car) but no way I would say the G37 doesn't compare to the 335i and the same for G25 and 328.

I don't think the market segments match 1 for 1. The G37 is priced like a 328i, but offers performance at the level of the 335i

Originally Posted by mossman35

I always thought the G25 was a stupid idea. The car is too big and heavy for a smaller V6. Also, the G25 wasn't cheap enough (compared to the G37).

Totally agree. But, again, I think that Infiniti wanted to go head-to-head with sport sedans in the $30,000 range - like the TSX. The idea is to hook owners in at that range and then let them progress up the model line over time.

Originally Posted by mossman35

Having said this, if I was looking at a 328 auto (E92) there is no way I would choose it over a G37. Not even close. There is no way the BMW name or slightly better handling would overcome the increased power, cheaper price (with more options) and far superior auto transmission of the G37.

If I wanted a manual with AWD the 328 has a huge advantage.

In general, I view the G37 as a better value than the E9x. I wanted a wagon though. I did look at the EX35, but the tiny cargo capacity and lousy rear visibility made it a no go.

For the most part, I think the G37 offers comparable handling, much better acceleration, and better reliability. There are aspects of the E9x I like a lot better, but I can totally understand the popularity of the G.



My sister had a G35 by the way, and hated the transmission.

Originally Posted by mossman35

Car and Driver and other magazines don't agree with you either..


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...g-sedan-review

From article linked above:

Top Competitors>

Acura TSX
Mercedes-Benz C-class
Cadillac CTS sedan
Audi A4 sedan
BMW 3-series sedan

Is this supposed to impress me?

If 5% of E9x owners cross-shopped the G25, I would be shocked. And, blurbs in magazines don't change that.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Is this supposed to impress me?

If 5% of E9x owners cross-shopped the G25, I would be shocked. And, blurbs in magazines don't change that.

So you don't think 5% of E9x owners shopped the IS250? Did they cross shop the TSX or the TL?

Let me guess, they went straight to the BMW dealer and picked their options...

I think people do cross shop the cars. I believe they cross shop a fully loaded TSX, IS250 against a stripped 328. I can't tell you how many fully stripped 328s I see. Certain people just want the name, but others want the features and cant' afford a fully optioned 3 series.

Not trying to impress you in the least. Just showing proof that what I said isn't some off the wall idea...... You will believe what you want.

I still say the 3 series compares with the IS250 and TSX (especially 328). The Tl is closer to the 3series and 5 series. Not every car company make cars that compare 1 to 1. I agree, Acura is sized somewhat differently.

If I simply used price as the only variable, then I would agree with you. The problem with the 3 series (and other BMW's) is that the price has a huge range depending on how it's configured. The range is not as large on other brands. Price, or should I say paying a premium doesn't change size comparison, fuel economy, features... etc.

Although I think many people do cross-shop among 328, C250, IS250 and G25, it is still misleading for the car mags to compare them directly. A 328i should be compared to C300, IS350 and G37. If BMW should start to sell 318i...

The fact many opted for a fully loaded TSX rather a striped 328i, just proves the two are not comparable.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Although I think many people do cross-shop among 328, C250, IS250 and G25, it is still misleading for the car mags to compare them directly. A 328i should be compared to C300, IS350 and G37. If BMW should start to sell 318i...

The fact many opted for a fully loaded TSX rather a striped 328i, just proves the two are not comparable.

So car mags shouldn't do the very comparisons that you readily admit "many" (I would say "most") consumers themselves are doing? That is absurd.

Seriously how many is350, C350 and 335i do you see on the road relative to the is250, C300(now the C250), and the 328i?

Originally Posted by dtc100

The fact many opted for a fully loaded TSX rather a striped 328i, just proves the two are not comparable.

No it just proves that different consumers have different preferences in car attributes and will make different choices given what's available on the market. It doesn't change the fact that most people buying a TSX and a 328i will cross shop and compare the two and therefore it is fair to compare the two in test comparisons.

The G25 was hampered by not offering enough features like Nav . Its a premium brand but was a stripper of a car.
The G37 is priced with the 328, offered 335 levels of performance but car and driver consistanly picked the 328 over the G37 in terms of driving dynamics, engine and the like.
I think the G is the better looker, but not as refined as the 3. Certanly has a great price point.
The IS250 and 300 ... I would like to drive them. The IS300 is a real screamer. I love our Lexus GX470, but I am guessnig the IS is a bit too isolating. I loved the 1st gen of that car.

When I bought my E93, I cross-shopped:

1. Lexus IS350C
2. Infiniti G37 Cabrio
2. Audi A4
3. Acura TL
4. Acura TSX
5. Mercedes C-class

Originally Posted by Thunder Dump

When I bought my E93, I cross-shopped:

1. Lexus IS350C
2. Infiniti G37 Cabrio
2. Audi A4
3. Acura TL
4. Acura TSX
5. Mercedes C-class

About right, differnt class but I'd throw in the Acura RL as well. I'm no enthusiast and see that I can get more of the bells whistles and lux in other places. Although I am biased towards German vehicles. My e90 will remain the 'fun' car.

I would also add the CTS as a class competitor. Although the TL and CTS are closer in size to a 5'ver.

Originally Posted by mossman35

Acura TSX

The TSX is (was?) the Honda Accord that the Rest of the World that doesn't super-size it's soft drinks and need the extra buttspace gets.

I had an '04 TSX -- and it was the most reliable car I've ever owned.

Originally Posted by Majikthese42

The TSX is (was?) the Honda Accord that the Rest of the World that doesn't super-size it's soft drinks and need the extra buttspace gets.

I had an '04 TSX -- and it was the most reliable car I've ever owned.

I already knew that the TSX was the European Accord. It was very well known.

What's your point though?? I am not knocking the TSX or TL at all.

Acura's are by far more reliable than BMW and I think most would agree. My parents have a 07 TL (before they got ugly). I drive it from time to time and it's not a bad car. People have different expectations and budgets for cars. So be it.......

I often poke fun at myself for paying as much as I do for a car. At the end of the day all cars serve as transportation.

I have no regrets though!! To each their own.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

So car mags shouldn't do the very comparisons that you readily admit "many" (I would say "most") consumers themselves are doing? That is absurd.

Seriously how many is350, C350 and 335i do you see on the road relative to the is250, C300(now the C250), and the 328i?

My point was, the consumers who ultimately bought G25, C250, IS250, or TSK loaded, rather than a stripped 3, are the ones who are not 3 series targeted demographics. The fact some of them might have cross-shopped all of them does not mean they are all aimed at them.

I test drove a 5 series during my cross-shopping, and quickly realized it was not aimed at me. Heck I even tested a Porsche, knowing it was not for me.

The C300, G37 and IS350 are more direct competitors to the 3 series, the fact some of them are scarce on the road proves that BMW does it right with the 3 series.

Otherwise a lot of people driving C250, IS250 and TSK around, would have you conclude the 3 series has failed to compete with them.

Originally Posted by 07335i_sport

I would also add the CTS as a class competitor. Although the TL and CTS are closer in size to a 5'ver.

The upcoming ATS will be a true 3 competitor, which demonstrates that CTS is not a direct competitor, even though some people might have cross-shopped between the two.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

No it just proves that different consumers have different preferences in car attributes and will make different choices given what's available on the market. It doesn't change the fact that most people buying a TSX and a 328i will cross shop and compare the two and therefore it is fair to compare the two in test comparisons.

To some extent, this is a silly conversation. Its about what we perceive as being at the same level in the marketplace. And, I'm not sure that there is a definitive answer there.

Still, I seriously doubt that "most people" who plunk down $45,000 on a BMW 3-series also considered a 4-cyl $30,000 FWD TSX. Those are entirely different market segments. I know enough 3-series owners, and have read enough posters on this board, to be fairly confident that this simply is not the case.

I really have no problem with comparing the two in test comparisons. The main point though, we were talking about is what compares with what in terms of market sphere.

Roughly speaking, the TL/G37/3-series/A4/IS are all in the same market place.

The G25/TSX/A4 FWD and maybe IS250 are in different place in the market.

And, to get to the original point, I'm willing to bet that less than 4 or 5 out of every 100 BMW owners seriously considered a G25.

I don't think those on this forum are representative of BMW owners in general at all.

$45k for a 328i is a very well loaded E90 or F30. I didn't even pay that for my 335d with ZSP, Nav, Apps, Assist/ipod, Paddles. Most 328i are selling for below or around $40k.

I agree it is a bit of a silly conversation, but I have no problem with car mags doing 95% of the comparos they do. I tend to check out a pretty wide swath of cars when I'm on the market. Acura is weird in that they Have been successful in keeping down the pricing of the TSX. It used to be much closer to the base 3 series.

I don't have any data to support this supposition but I would bet that the base Infiniti, Acura TSX, Lexus IS250, MB c250, are much more heavily tilted towards female buyers than the G37, V6 TSX, is350, C350. I bet this is also true for the 328i vs 335i but I bet that the gender difference isn't as big with the 328i as it is with those others.

I'm surprised to see people say they do cross shopping in this segment. I figured once you got to $40+k cars, you kind of know what you want and you go buy it. By cross shopping, I assume that involves going to the dealer and test driving the car. I find visiting car dealers to be a not a lot of fun so I try to minimize that experience.

I considered some other cars before I bought my 328. By this I mean I went on the website, used the configurator, and perhaps checked local inventories. Ultimately I eliminated all of them for various reasons before I even sat in them. The biggest reason was pretty much this: If I am going to spend $40k or so on a car and I want a 3-Series, why don't I just buy a 3-Series?

Originally Posted by hellosopo

I'm surprised to see people say they do cross shopping in this segment. I figured once you got to $40+k cars, you kind of know what you want and you go buy it. By cross shopping, I assume that involves going to the dealer and test driving the car. I find visiting car dealers to be a not a lot of fun so I try to minimize that experience.

I considered some other cars before I bought my 328. By this I mean I went on the website, used the configurator, and perhaps checked local inventories. Ultimately I eliminated all of them for various reasons before I even sat in them. The biggest reason was pretty much this: If I am going to spend $40k or so on a car and I want a 3-Series, why don't I just buy a 3-Series?

There are a lot of great cars in this segment, and I always have a car crush on Infiniti vehicles. So, I test drove a lot of vehicles.