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E63 / E64 6 Series (2003 - 2013)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:48 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Fails to start sometimes.

Hello everyone, thanks in advance for any help, comments and or suggestions. My 650 has had an issue where she often times just won't start.

I can drive my car sometimes for weeks and no issues, then get in and she just won't start. She will not try and turn over at all, just nothing. If I get out of the car, step away at a distance where the key and bluetooth communications can no longer take place, then come back and get in she will often start right up. Sometimes she is more stubborn and I may have to do this a few times, sometimes rotating the steering wheel a little to see if it may be something in the steering coulmn. i typically start the car with out inserting the key. I have not noticed this making any difference in starting when this problem occurs. she seems to start whenever she wants, grin.

Any Ideas? It is getting very frustrating and it seems to be occuring 2-3 times a week now.

thanks
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:37 PM
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msa9167 msa9167 is offline
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Can it be the battery in the fob is going bad? I just replace mine the battery in the fob is a 2032 paid about
$4 for 2 Duracell at Walgreen's. Also I think that if your car doesn't have the comfort access option then you can't replace the battery in the fob.

Also you should place the key inside the ignition every now and then to charge the 2nd battery in the fob.

Last edited by msa9167; 06-11-2012 at 07:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:49 PM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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mas9167,

Thanks fo the reply. I don't know if it's that simple but I will so try it. I know when I first got the car I did pu a new battery in it. I can't inpoint if it did this while the battery was new or not. I also did not know that there was second battery in the FOB that needed charging. I typically never use the key in the slot. Thanks for the education.
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:26 PM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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I had recently coded a battery change and update of the type and amp hour values. I was unsure those setting were properly recorded, but luckily they were. I was also able to update some other modules(i.e. HUD to display turn signals) so the coding aspect is working.

I have a new battery for my key FOB, but I have not tried it just yet. Here are the messages I found in DIS since I last cleared out the errors using quick erase about a week ago.

CAN FFFF: CANSYS Communication Fault
TCU-A391 TCU Main Telephone Aerial fail
IHKA-9C54 IHKA: AUC Sensor no signal [Fault currently present]
DSC-5F76 DSC Engine Management
EGS-51A7 Transmission Control No Message
CAS-A0B4 CAS: Engine Start Starter Operation

These are the ones that are present or were present briefly in the last week. See picture as well.

Hopefully this gives someone a better idea of the problem I am having.

Thanks again everyone.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:48 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Just an update. I added a new battery to my spare key and have been using it instead of the one I was using. I am also inserting the key everytime as well. The car has not had the starting issues since. It has only been one day though. fingers are crossed.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2012, 07:44 AM
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msa9167 msa9167 is offline
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Hope it solves your problem!
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:18 PM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Well, She died on me at a Drive up window today, and then would not start. I pushed her to a parking spot tried again with out any luck. I locked her up walked about 50 yards away, turned off blue tooth on my phone walked back and she started right up. WTF? Seriously I would love to know what is going on. I am scheduled to get the Battery cable Recall done tomorrow I hope this actually is my problem, and I don't have to chase this ghost down forever.
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:29 PM
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msa9167 msa9167 is offline
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Wonder if your alternator or battery is going. Looking at your screen shot you have a bunch of random errors.
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:44 PM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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I had a multitude of errors driving down the road one day and had seen that this was common to the battery going bad. It did that a few more times then I started putting it on a battery tender and it seemed happy. I used that method to keep her happy for a bout a week, then bought a new battery from BMW ($279). They also wanted $279. to code it to my car. I went with coding it myself, good thing the last time they changed the battery, apparently they set it to 110ah Lead Acid type battery when it should have been 90ah AGM. That part is correct now, and I registered the battery change as well. I hope it's not the alternator, I recently replaced that stupid o-ring behind it and I really don't want to take that thing out again, grin.
Thank you for your suggestions and continued help on this.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2012, 03:37 PM
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TxTaz TxTaz is offline
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I don't have any issues but I'm going to replace the alternator regulator just because these cars are soooooooo touchy when it comes to electrical.
I have found that keeping the car on a tender over night once a week has prevented any errors lights being thrown. I had tons before changing the battery and putting it on a tender each week.
I also installed a cTek battery indicator LED which is handy. It has the charge plug oon it as well.
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  #11  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:57 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Yes the Electrical System seems to be VERY sensetive on these babies.

Just an update. NO Starting issues since I took the car in to BMW to have the Battery Cable Harness Recall done. While they were doing that I had them do a Diagnostic on the system as well. They came back with some errors I had not seen yet. VANOS #2 Exhaust seemd to be having some issues. Odd that I had not seen this error yet. They stated it could be a pinched or crossed wire causing issues. I had done some work around that area and thought maybe I screwed up putting them back in. I removed the inlet and the Exhaust on the 5-8 Cylinder side and swaped the Solenoids themselves, checked the wiring and it looked good. (my thought process was if they are more than just a solenoid and actually provide identification and feedback to the CAS system then maybe I swapped them when I originally put the car back together) I started the car back up and all seemed to be running fine. I ran DIS and it showed the errors the dealer had, and stated fault not currently present. I drove the car throughout the day and at one point she started having issues at accelerating in first gear from 800-2000 RPM's. It was kind o fa sputter and move forward and then just start moving fine. She did this till I eventually turned her off. This morning I hook her up to DIS and run through everything. I had an AUC sensor error(4.98V at sensor instead of 5V), no biggie, a telematics(phone). I then went to quick delete and all cleared out. NO ISSUES whatsoever in DIS at this point. I plugged the car into my battery tender after the initial read, I believe that is why everything cleared out. I am starting to think the battery cable harness issue was causing many more problems than it shoudl have. I also am starting to think it could have something to do with my alternator. After I take her off the Battery Tender, she runs like a dream for that first and second run. She had in the past had issues on small trips or any more than 2 trips between charges. I'm going to let her get happy on the Battery Tender then see how she does the rest of the week without it.

I'll update again later. I really hope this thread helps someone else later down the line.

Last edited by houbmw-cm; 06-18-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:27 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Just an Update:

Since I had the Battery harness cable Recall completed, I have not had an issue with my car starting at all. I can not completely attribute it to that though. I also have not had the problem starting the car since I disabled bluetooth. I can not begin to think why that would matter, but my car did flake out a number of times with my phone, and would often continue trying to connect after the car was turned off on many occasions.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:40 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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There was a post a while back about Bluetooth & the car connecting to it. If the key & cell phone (activated) is within 25 feet of the car, the car will not go to sleep & drain the battery. The car will continue to communicate causing problems. I had some issues with this, that liked to have driven me crazy searching for the source of the problem. My battery finally was replaced last week, so a weak battery will add to the problem.

After changing my battery last week, I put a charge on it for just a few hours. I thought this would be enough being brand new. My airbag sensor in the passenger side front seat, kept indicating a problem. I cleared it 2 more times, & finally decided it might be bad. I remember a recall for this issue, but the recall ended on the 06 model. I asked the dealer to try & get me some goodwill, to be covered under recall. He told me to bring it in, & they would have to read it with a BMW system to go any further. I decided to charge the battery again just for the heck of it. It took 12 hours to get a complete charge. After removing the charger, I reran DIS to remove the code. To be on the safe side, I set up a test plan to look further. I read all the explanations, and worked thru the test. At the end of the test, the airbag code went away. I was really shocked that this 1 code would not clear with a new battery.

You learn something everyday with these cars. Comprehending how you learned it, is the hard part!

Sometimes you got to hope for the best!
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2012, 09:26 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Agreed. I remember a post regarding a wife leaving her purse in the car with the key, and the car eating te battery. The bluetooth thing just seems crazy. It is sad that a new phone could alter the way your car acts. I have not had an issue one since the Battery Harness Recall and turning off bluetooth. fingers crossed. I'm going to avoid the checking to see if the bluetooth was the problem or not, grin. Clearing out all the codes was a bit odd, It seemed I would clear some then new ones would pop up. Everything is clear, and I want her to stay that way.

Here is to hoping for the best! GRIN
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:47 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houbmw-cm View Post
Agreed. I remember a post regarding a wife leaving her purse in the car with the key, and the car eating te battery. The bluetooth thing just seems crazy. It is sad that a new phone could alter the way your car acts. I have not had an issue one since the Battery Harness Recall and turning off bluetooth. fingers crossed. I'm going to avoid the checking to see if the bluetooth was the problem or not, grin. Clearing out all the codes was a bit odd, It seemed I would clear some then new ones would pop up. Everything is clear, and I want her to stay that way.

Here is to hoping for the best! GRIN
I had the same symptoms before changing the battery, it seems that the car was playing games with my mind!

I like a good fight!
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:29 PM
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roseng roseng is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houbmw-cm View Post
Agreed. I remember a post regarding a wife leaving her purse in the car with the key, and the car eating te battery. The bluetooth thing just seems crazy. It is sad that a new phone could alter the way your car acts. I have not had an issue one since the Battery Harness Recall and turning off bluetooth. fingers crossed. I'm going to avoid the checking to see if the bluetooth was the problem or not, grin. Clearing out all the codes was a bit odd, It seemed I would clear some then new ones would pop up. Everything is clear, and I want her to stay that way.

Here is to hoping for the best! GRIN
Yea that was my post. When the SA at the dealer told me that I was blown away. This was on my 06 530i. These things have a mind of their own. They just let us think we are driving them but apparently they have their own agenda.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2012, 04:16 PM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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She Started failing to start again. My transmission is acting worse and worse as well. Aghhhh. She hasn't failed to start in the last few days, but she did it about 5 - 7 times over the course of 3 days last week. I've about lost my mind over this.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2012, 07:57 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Update:
The Fail to start is still happening. I did some research on what could possibly prevent her from starting and would be related to the steering column. the Switch assembly around the Steering column has quite a few compoents in it. After reviewing the wiring Diagrams, came across what looks like the most possible area for failure, a toroidal coil in the switch assemply area. i say area, because I'm not exactly sure where the damn thing is in there, but believe it is the most likely candidate. The image on the wiring diagrams shows it to be just behind where the steering wheel heater would be. I pulled the steering wheel off and the swicth assembly off, took it all apart and cleaned the alignment disk, becasue I was there, and could not find anything resembling a Toroidal Coil. i put her back together and then cleared out the Air Bag Failure faults and she did great for a day, then failed to start again. Anyone have any clues. These cars offer a multitude of failure points in the start circuit. I believe it is confined to something in the Steering column, because of the symptoms can be cleared out by adjusting the steering wheel. The last few times here is what I have done to get her to start. Rotated wheels completely in both directions, still no start. Tap lower left potion of steering wheel switch assembly, and she starts after a few taps. The most recent. I yanked the wheel back and forth. Armed the car. Sat and waited for a minute, disarmed car, opened door, pressed start, she started right up as if nothing was ever wrong. When she fails to start there is an engaging noise that sounds like the starter is trying to energize, but then clicks as if nothing there. i believe this is where the Toroidal coil is failing to hold the circuit closed for the started to fully engage.

Last edited by houbmw-cm; 08-06-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:10 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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UPDATE: Ok, So I finally replaced the Steering Column Assembly switch in my car. $500.00 for the part then paid BMW Dealer 262.00 to code it to the car as this is the unit that houses DTS and DSC and needs to have the Steering angle sensor aligned. I was thrilled for the first 7 days, no issues what so ever. I felt great about my car and confident that she would start without issues. She proved me wrong on that last night. She failed to start a couple of times and then just flat out refused for about 30 minutes. She eventually started. I'm seriously at a loss on this issue. This repair at BMW is 1200-1500, as is just about anything that can be causing this issue, but I'm not sure I have the patience to continually replace every damn component in the car until she works right. Hope this helps someone avoid the same costs i'm going through.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2012, 08:14 AM
tampamark tampamark is online now
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That really blows.

In a simpler car I would be looking at three things, the ignition (start) switch, the starter solenoid, and the starter. In this over-complicated advanced electronic BMW system I don't have a clue! Your frustration is well justified.

Last edited by tampamark; 08-25-2012 at 08:15 AM.
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  #21  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:44 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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Thanks! Yes it does blow. I almost just want a damn ford. Yeah Voltage is good, the alternator is doing fine. The Starter fires off just fine when the power actually gets to it. The Cars ignition system comes on line. It goes to engage the starter and it seems like the holding relay fails to sustain the closed circuit. There is a Toroidal Coil somewhere in the steering column. I have yet to actually find it and I've torn it apart a few times. i'm going to have to either A. Get rid f her, or B. Tear her apart finding this gremlin, essentially making her a money pit. I love this car! yet she is killing me.

Thanks for the sympathy, grin.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2012, 09:00 AM
batshone batshone is offline
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Hi everyone,

Have the same problem with my 645, when trying to start the engine, everything turns on (lights, stereo, signals, horn), but at the last switch, the engine won't start AT ALL, sometimes i hear a quick "Tick" sound coming from the engine when turning the switch, but that is it! Sometimes i have to wait 5 min, 30 min, or more! Now it's happening every couple of days.

Couple of weeks ago I waited around 3 days until it started.

Sent it to the BMW agency were they told me that it is a problem with sth called the "CAS", in which they change a part costing 1000$ - changing the keys with this process.
They said the battery is fine and they even charged it!

I received the car after 6 days,, everything was fine for the first 3 days until again it wouldn't start in the morning!

The agency said they did not record any other error while diagnosing the car.

Now it is clear that they have no clue as to where the problem is.

I am going mad as I feel I spent 1000$ down the drain!!!

Any specific idea what can be the problem?!

HELP before I start thinking of selling it as I cannot rely on it any more..

Thanks!!!
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  #23  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:46 AM
houbmw-cm houbmw-cm is offline
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This problem drives me crazy. I completely understand your frustration. I'm starting to believe, or convince myself, that it is a combination of several issues. Mine did it to me again last night. I popped the hood and tapped the area where i believe the micro filter goes on the passnger side. close the hood and she started just fine. I believe my problem had to do with the Steering column assembly switch (Steering angle sensor, SZL). there is another electronic module that is housed in the area below the microfilter area that I plan to replace next. I believe it is around 150.00 and does not require coding, so it should be pretty simple to pull out plug in and hope that it resolves my issues. i'll replace it next week, and let you know. Something else that may help is the battery harness cable recall seemed to lessen my issues considerably. Have you taken your car in for the Battery Harness Recall yet? It's a recall so it's a free repair. Mine worked great for about a month after that. Like I said combination of several things. yeah that's the ticket, grin. Good luck.
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2012, 05:59 AM
batshone batshone is offline
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Re: houbmw-cm

Hi houbmw-cm,

Strangely, the BMW agency didn't mention anything related to the Battery cable harness recall!

Will give them a buzz next week to schedule for a battery harness replacement,, if this didn't work too,, I'll change the battery.. if no change after all of this, I'll simply sell the car!!

I should be able to finalize this at the end of September & will post my updates immediatly..

cheers!!
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:49 AM
Turbo_525 Turbo_525 is offline
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Wow - houbmw you have quite the electrical knowlege, patience and persistance to do as much work on this car yourself!

I don't have a 6 - and probably won't however it's amazing to me that such a new (to me) car would have this much in terms of electrical gremilns surfacing. I sold a Volvo 850 turbo once due to a somewhat similar issue of "flaky" electrical issues. It only failed to crank 3 times, but once at a stoplight set off the alarm, flashed all the lights, and disable the engine starting! It was entertaining for other drivers to see me get out - re-lock and then un-lock the car - jump back in, start up (it did, thank goodness) and take off!

Wasn't long after that that I sold that car. Hope you find the issue and can rectify it!
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