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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:08 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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BMW diesel car sales disappoint in U.S. according to CEO

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-ceo-...ies-in-us.html

I searched for this and did not find it so if it has been posted already forgive me.
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:03 PM
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stevehecht stevehecht is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyspumoni View Post
http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-ceo-...ies-in-us.html

I searched for this and did not find it so if it has been posted already forgive me.
These cars have been on the market here for less than a year. I think the problem with the 535 is that the chassis doesn't get great reviews to begin with. I have yet to meet someone who knew that the 328d or 535d were even available. Most people know nothing unless they're told by the CA or a friend or family member. That's why more advertising is crucial.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:23 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Marketing apparently didn't the memo that US buyers aren't so quick to accept the badging nonsense.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:30 PM
Hangman4358 Hangman4358 is offline
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Marketing didn't get the memo to market the cars period. I have yet to see an advertisement for a diesel bmw anywhere except looking for it on youtube.

My CA said there were two types of people who look at the diesels on his lot. People who know they want a diesel and dealership employees who want to check out this strange car they have.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:50 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Originally Posted by Hangman4358 View Post
Marketing didn't get the memo to market the cars period. I have yet to see an advertisement for a diesel bmw anywhere except looking for it on youtube.

My CA said there were two types of people who look at the diesels on his lot. People who know they want a diesel and dealership employees who want to check out this strange car they have.
I saw a few a couple of months ago on TV, but TBH BMW advertising isn't always model specific but about the brand.

FWIW I bet 335i sales aren't that great either. 435i will be so-so.
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:40 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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Here's another press tidbit that I found interesting:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobi...tml/?a=viewall

Top 20 fastest diesel cars. 328d is amongst them of course. WJS says 0-60 of 7.4 which is a bit more specific that "around 7 seconds" which is what all the reviews say. Still - in very good company. Looks like those cross-shopping diesels may soon be comparing the 328d to the VW GTD.
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2014, 05:27 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyspumoni View Post
Here's another press tidbit that I found interesting:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobi...tml/?a=viewall

Top 20 fastest diesel cars. 328d is amongst them of course. WJS says 0-60 of 7.4 which is a bit more specific that "around 7 seconds" which is what all the reviews say. Still - in very good company. Looks like those cross-shopping diesels may soon be comparing the 328d to the VW GTD.
If they're going to list cars not available in the US, they should have mentioned the 325d and 335d.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2014, 05:34 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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Yeah - I hadn't thought about that. Adding the 225d would have made sense as well (0-62 time of 6.1s) Good catch. Pretty much my dream BMW: fleet, small, with low CO2 output.

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/pe...25d_coupe.html
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:16 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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BMW started marketing the e90 335d in its last year, and that was for a few months. The commercial first showed a Volvo with lots of toxic looking smoke coming out of it. Should've fired the ad agency.

Reminds me of the poor marketing of the 318ti which wasn't even available on dealer lots. Then they said they were "disappointed" with the sales.

PL
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:32 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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I too was surprised how poorly supported the 335d was in terms of marketing and remain puzzled why BMW would not support their diesel line-up more fully. With 425 ft lbs of torque any dunderhead could've come up with a better ad than what was portrayed. Heck, the 328d gets great mileage and good efficiency (CO2 emitted). Who buys it? People who want to actually drive something that feels more like a luxury car than an appliance, which is what for example the Prius is. And no toxic battery. C'mon BMW - get with the advertising program.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:16 PM
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stevehecht stevehecht is online now
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I saw a very good 328d ad online the other day. It starts with a Smart going down the road and the voice-over says, "38 miles per gallon is not bad..."--and then a the front end of a 328d zooms into the foreground, passing by and hiding the Smart--"...until you see what 45 miles per gallon can feel like." The screen goes to black for a moment and then it shows "BMW 328d" and "45 mpg" with it in big letters. It took under ten seconds but definitely made its point. Looks, power, BMW...and 45 mpg.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:01 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
BMW started marketing the e90 335d in its last year, and that was for a few months. The commercial first showed a Volvo with lots of toxic looking smoke coming out of it. Should've fired the ad agency.

Reminds me of the poor marketing of the 318ti which wasn't even available on dealer lots. Then they said they were "disappointed" with the sales.

PL
Wasn't it a super bowl ad?
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Wasn't it a super bowl ad?
Could have been, but it was used at other times also.
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2014, 02:48 AM
glangford glangford is offline
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I saw a few adds when I bought mine last oct, but haven't seen one since.
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2014 328d.
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:58 AM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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I have ever been of the opinion that BMW's sedan diesel offerings were an effort to raise CAFE numbers, given marketing efforts most charitably described as anemic, but the CEO sounds genuinely disappointed and surprised by weak diesel sedan sales. Could be teutonic hubris I suppose, but you would've thought they would have learned their lesson with the 335d. Folks like me who bought them have been passionate, as are apparently those who have invested in the 328d. I can count on no fingers the number of times even savvy car people showed the least familiarity with the 335d - heck, even BMW guys were clueless. Yet they seem to know all about VW's diesel offerings. This screams "marketing blunder" to me.

Worse to me is BMW's strategy of investing in both diesels and electronic vehicles. Lithium is incredibly toxic, rare, and inequitably distributed geographically. So BMW decides to follow the crowd, eh, paradoxically undercutting the money they have already invested in clean diesel.


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  #16  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:27 AM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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IDK why all these odd diesel news threads are coming up, but here's another one to share. I happen to disagree with this one, since the author is comparing two cars being driven as extreme speeds, but it does give perhaps some insight, however misguided, to the rant against diesel.

jalopnik.com/diesel-might-be-economical-but-gas-is-just-so-much-mor-1590351825




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  #17  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:06 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles . Let's face it, most of these cars are leased (therefore shackled by low mileage contracts) and without the help of the eco credit the gas version is cheaper.
I suspect they will be very popular on the CPO lot where the road warriors shop for their "new to them" BMW's.

Edit so I can rant about BMW corporate greed and the manual numbers comment:
The main reason BMW started bringing diesels was to help them meet their CAFE numbers. If BMW does not significantly decrease their average MPG numbers, big fines are to be paid. Knowing this, why is BMW being greedy and still charging extra for the equivalent diesel powertrain in the US? They are trying to benefit on both front and back ends of the deal. This guy is crying, but BMW is selling more cars than ever, so they need those CAFE numbers to go down. Solutions is simple: equalize the MSRP / lease deal to make the diesel value prop better to the average person shopping for a new BMW and diesel sales numbers will increase. Everyone wins.

On the manuals: I love driving a car with a manual transmission. I have special ordered several cars so I could have them so equipped. The fact of the matter is that BMW is offering it on fewer and fewer models. Over the past few years, I have only needed to replace vehicles with AWD. To get a manual transmission BMW limits me to the 335i sedan which is too small for my needs. A 535i/d xdrive with a manual would be just right, especially as a wagon but that configuration died years ago.
We are going to be replacing the MINI in a year or so. It's my partner's car and he is eyeing a 2 series convertible. I am really concerned that this model will follow the same path as the 4 series convertible which is not offered with a manual - absolutely pathetic. Not to mention trying to test drive one. Again, the BMW dude is implying that manual sales are dismal and we're supposed to feel blessed for whatever few models they still offer yet sorry about poor BMW not selling enough of them. There is no question that fewer and fewer people look for a manual transmission, but making them available on all the 2/3/4 series models and most 5 series would help keep several people on this forum loyal to the brand. I know BMW has to certifying each version and that costs them money, but last time I checked, their profits looked pretty darn good.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:43 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles ..
I don't know how many miles, or what you pay per gallon, but my 335d has already saved me around $4,000 in the 82K miles I've driven it. And currently, diesel is $0.25 cheaper than premium up here in Seattle, so the savings is increasing...
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:58 PM
Jamolay Jamolay is offline
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If saving money was the main issue, I would have bought a cheaper car. Any savings of a few grand on fuel is more than offset by the cost of the car. However, the diesel pollutes less and doesn't have the environmental concern of a large lithium battery.
The 328xd is the highest mileage AWD car made, so I was willing to pay a premium to get the highest mileage AWD car currently made and in the process get a higher end, sportier car than I usually get.

This may be the problem for BMW advertising. I may be a pretty small demographic as sport car enthusiast is going to sacrifice fuel efficiency for power and handling, the luxury and SUV crowds for something higher end and bigger and the cost conscious for something much cheaper than a BMW.

The few, the proud, the not worth advertising to.


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  #20  
Old 07-04-2014, 01:55 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles.
This argument seems to never go away.

From Fuelly:

2014 328i: 27.0 mpg
2014 328d: 37.2 mpg
2011 335D: 30.5 mpg

From AAA:

Average cost of fuel over past year:

...................Regular.Mid...Premium.Diesel
Current Avg. $3.663 $3.848 $4.018 $3.901
Yesterday Avg. $3.667 $3.852 $4.021 $3.902
Week Ago Avg. $3.684 $3.866 $4.036 $3.905
Month Ago Avg. $3.663 $3.850 $4.020 $3.916
Year Ago Avg. $3.477 $3.658 $3.822 $3.817
---------------------------------------------------------------
Average: $3.631 $3.815 $3.983 $3.888

Cost of fuel for 50,000 miles = (50,000 miles) x ($/gal)/(miles/gal)

2014 328i: (50,000 miles)x($3.983/gal)/(27.0 miles/gal) = $7,375.93
2014 328d: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(37.2 miles/gal) = $5,225.81
2011 335D: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(30.5 miles/gal) = $6,373.77

So it takes significantly less than 50,000 miles to break even for a 328i vs. 328d since the difference in price is $1300 while fuel savings by using diesel is $2,150.12.

To break even: # of miles = ($1200)/[($3.983/gal)/(27.0 mpg)-($3.888/gal)/(37.2 mpg)] = 27,905.43 miles

Don't forget that the gasoline BMW's use premium.

The advantage of longevity, resale value, extended range, and carbon emissions is not even taken into account yet.

PL
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Last edited by Pierre Louis; 07-04-2014 at 02:14 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-04-2014, 03:15 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
This argument seems to never go away.

From Fuelly:

2014 328i: 27.0 mpg
2014 328d: 37.2 mpg
2011 335D: 30.5 mpg

From AAA:

Average cost of fuel over past year:

...................Regular.Mid...Premium.Diesel
Current Avg. $3.663 $3.848 $4.018 $3.901
Yesterday Avg. $3.667 $3.852 $4.021 $3.902
Week Ago Avg. $3.684 $3.866 $4.036 $3.905
Month Ago Avg. $3.663 $3.850 $4.020 $3.916
Year Ago Avg. $3.477 $3.658 $3.822 $3.817
---------------------------------------------------------------
Average: $3.631 $3.815 $3.983 $3.888

Cost of fuel for 50,000 miles = (50,000 miles) x ($/gal)/(miles/gal)

2014 328i: (50,000 miles)x($3.983/gal)/(27.0 miles/gal) = $7,375.93
2014 328d: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(37.2 miles/gal) = $5,225.81
2011 335D: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(30.5 miles/gal) = $6,373.77

So it takes significantly less than 50,000 miles to break even for a 328i vs. 328d since the difference in price is $1300 while fuel savings by using diesel is $2,150.12.

To break even: # of miles = ($1200)/[($3.983/gal)/(27.0 mpg)-($3.888/gal)/(37.2 mpg)] = 27,905.43 miles

Don't forget that the gasoline BMW's use premium.

The advantage of longevity, resale value, extended range, and carbon emissions is not even taken into account yet.

PL
I believe that the context was a typical low mileage lease.

You'd need the MF and residual
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:21 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
This argument seems to never go away.

From Fuelly:

2014 328i: 27.0 mpg
2014 328d: 37.2 mpg
2011 335D: 30.5 mpg

From AAA:

Average cost of fuel over past year:

...................Regular.Mid...Premium.Diesel
Current Avg. $3.663 $3.848 $4.018 $3.901
Yesterday Avg. $3.667 $3.852 $4.021 $3.902
Week Ago Avg. $3.684 $3.866 $4.036 $3.905
Month Ago Avg. $3.663 $3.850 $4.020 $3.916
Year Ago Avg. $3.477 $3.658 $3.822 $3.817
---------------------------------------------------------------
Average: $3.631 $3.815 $3.983 $3.888

Cost of fuel for 50,000 miles = (50,000 miles) x ($/gal)/(miles/gal)

2014 328i: (50,000 miles)x($3.983/gal)/(27.0 miles/gal) = $7,375.93
2014 328d: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(37.2 miles/gal) = $5,225.81
2011 335D: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(30.5 miles/gal) = $6,373.77

So it takes significantly less than 50,000 miles to break even for a 328i vs. 328d since the difference in price is $1300 while fuel savings by using diesel is $2,150.12.

To break even: # of miles = ($1200)/[($3.983/gal)/(27.0 mpg)-($3.888/gal)/(37.2 mpg)] = 27,905.43 miles

Don't forget that the gasoline BMW's use premium.

The advantage of longevity, resale value, extended range, and carbon emissions is not even taken into account yet.

PL
You don't have to convince me or anyone who hangs in this corner of Bimmerfest. My point was that most people lease and don't look any further than the monthly payment.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2014, 03:31 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Yeah, for enthusiasts, the availability of a manual transmission and perhaps the lower price of a 320i may make a difference.

A 2011 335d used, same mileage and options, seems to be about $900 less in resale value compared to a similar 335i.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:08 PM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Originally Posted by tonyspumoni View Post
I too was surprised how poorly supported the 335d was in terms of marketing and remain puzzled why BMW would not support their diesel line-up more fully. With 425 ft lbs of torque any dunderhead could've come up with a better ad than what was portrayed. Heck, the 328d gets great mileage and good efficiency (CO2 emitted). Who buys it? People who want to actually drive something that feels more like a luxury car than an appliance, which is what for example the Prius is. And no toxic battery. C'mon BMW - get with the advertising program.
I'm beginning to think BMW probably didn't market it heavily, because they knew the 335d was a crappy car. Reading all the issues around the 50k-60k with the emissions components, I'm seriously thinking BMW knew it had a crappy design (like the def tank refill locations and two def tanks) for its US diesels running off of crappy US diesel versus the standard premium diesel in Europe. More of my psychosis is telling me this is reinforced by the fact BMW had a gap between the end of 335d and the new diesel models. i would say BMW lost its earlier adopter fans because of this...it at least lost this fan and soon to be ex-335d owner. I won't buy another BMW diesel, because of having to replace just about the entire emissions system at only 54k miles on my 2010 335d.
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:39 PM
tonyspumoni tonyspumoni is online now
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Wow imtjm. I had never thought that through. Kinda makes sense. My DEF sensor/regulator thingy - s&&t IDK what it is really called - went at 65k and the entire DEF tank had to be replaced becausd BMW thought that embedding a $100 gizmo inside a $2000 honkin big take was a good idea. Fortuntely - warranty covered it - either powertrain plus or the California emissions.

Your view is a little to conspiracy-theorist/lone gunman for me to wholeheartedly embrace but you make a damn fine point. Stories of folks driving their Camry's 200k miles without changing he freakin oil are commonplace. Tales of 335d's lasting 100k without major problems are rare indeed and if I were one of the BMW engineers on that adaptation team I would feel like I deserved having my nuts squeezed.


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