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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:19 AM
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Head 2 Head - F30 335i Against Audi S4 - Can the BMW Hold Onto its Reign?

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On this episode of Head 2 Head, Carlos Lago pits the new 2012 BMW 335i against it's natural rival from Ingolstadt - the 2012 Audi S4. The 3 Series has long enjoyed its reputation as the benchmark of European sports sedans. But does the more powerful S4 finally have what it takes to end BMW's reign?
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:25 AM
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Carlos needs to have someone check the brakes on that BMW. 60-0 in 131 feet? doesn't sound right.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:36 AM
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I am not too sure why they always compare the new F30 with all season tires, to other brands with standard performance tires. The tires make significant contribution to the "spreadsheet" results.

Having said that, I wasn't surprised that the S4 in its standard form is a more fun and better driver's car, it was built that way. It should be compared to a 335i with m sport and other performance add-ons.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:13 AM
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You can't compare an Audi to a BMW. An Audi isn't a luxury car.

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Old 06-18-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You can't compare an Audi to a BMW. An Audi isn't a luxury car.

BJ
Have you ever seen that Lexus commercial comparing the 3 series to the A4 and C-class and the ES350. They eliminated the 3 series immediately saying that the 3 series is not even consider a luxury sedan.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:34 AM
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Have you ever seen that Lexus commercial comparing the 3 series to the A4 and C-class and the ES350. They eliminated the 3 series immediately saying that the 3 series is not even consider a luxury sedan.
I see a pattern here, if you can't compete, just disqualify your competitor so there is no need to compare.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:22 PM
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Have you ever seen that Lexus commercial comparing the 3 series to the A4 and C-class and the ES350. They eliminated the 3 series immediately saying that the 3 series is not even consider a luxury sedan.
There is a class of automobile called the Wannabe Rebadges of which Audi, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, and Infiniti belong. No surprise that they try to align themselves with the likes of BMW and Mercedes Benz in their advertising, helps their brand strategy in which Mr. & Mrs. Camry blow the Christmas bonus on a Lexus as if it now means they can hob-knob with BMW onwers.

BJ
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:24 PM
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I see a pattern here, if you can't compete, just disqualify your competitor so there is no need to compare.
Cheez Whiz goes out of its way to act like it's a "real" cheese, makes the poor people feel special.

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Old 06-18-2012, 01:05 PM
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I see a pattern here, if you can't compete, just disqualify your competitor so there is no need to compare.
I am amazed at the amount of BMW fanboys in here, its probably higher than any brand I have seen. I guess that really say something about BMW as a brand, to be able to get people to following blindly without questions, almost like a cult
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:25 PM
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Ignoring the all season versus summer tire issue (which I feel is a valid issue), I agree with the results.

I think the electric power steering in the 335i removes a lot of the steering feel compared with the S4. When I had a 2012 528i loaner, the steering most of the time wasn't an issue, but when pushed the feel wasn't there. Normally I can feel how fast I'm turning based on feedback in the wheel, but with the electric system, I couldn't feel the speed in the wheel.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:52 PM
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I completely disagree with BoltjaM3s !!!

AUDI is a premium/luxury brand, as much as Lexus is, as much as Infiniti, as much as Acura ... and Cadillac...

AUDI is a luxury brand, period.

"The X Men" please dont confused one member for the entire group.


In this case, the Audi deserve its stronghold !
Great review by Carlos.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WaxComb View Post
Ignoring the all season versus summer tire issue (which I feel is a valid issue), I agree with the results.

I think the electric power steering in the 335i removes a lot of the steering feel compared with the S4. When I had a 2012 528i loaner, the steering most of the time wasn't an issue, but when pushed the feel wasn't there. Normally I can feel how fast I'm turning based on feedback in the wheel, but with the electric system, I couldn't feel the speed in the wheel.
Personally I don't have an issue with the review, except for braking. 131 feet is waaay out there even with all season tires. In addition, I would have loved for them to test the 335i with the adaptive suspension and variable steering because then you have the sport + and this is what convinced me to get this type of setup, better feel.

BMW really should have upped the HP and torque we all know that the N55 is really not stressed at all with the 9lbs of boost right now. I know they will do it in a year or so but I think they missed out not coming with at least 330HP and 340lbs of torque setup.
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:01 PM
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I am amazed at the amount of BMW fanboys in here, its probably higher than any brand I have seen. I guess that really say something about BMW as a brand, to be able to get people to following blindly without questions, almost like a cult
You mean your surprised that there are BMW fanboys in a BMW forum?

pretty naive if you ask me, go check out an audi or mercedes forum
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  #14  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:20 PM
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You mean your surprised that there are BMW fanboys in a BMW forum?

pretty naive if you ask me, go check out an audi or mercedes forum
No, I am not surprised that there are BMW fanboys in a BMW forum, but I am surprise at the number of them. Audi forums have their share of fanboys as well, but they are not as loyal, Mercedes forums are pretty boring
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:25 PM
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Personally I don't have an issue with the review, except for braking. 131 feet is waaay out there even with all season tires. In addition, I would have loved for them to test the 335i with the adaptive suspension and variable steering because then you have the sport + and this is what convinced me to get this type of setup, better feel.

BMW really should have upped the HP and torque we all know that the N55 is really not stressed at all with the 9lbs of boost right now. I know they will do it in a year or so but I think they missed out not coming with at least 330HP and 340lbs of torque setup.
And tires. All 335s should have performance tires standard, if nothing else the comparos will be less embarrassing. You can have as much power as you put out, and better suspension, but if the tires can not handle it, they are useless.

Last edited by dtc100; 06-18-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:32 PM
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Did S4 slow down? I remember 0-60 was 4.5 second, but now listed as 4.9. If that's the case, I think F30 can even beat it unofficially.

http://models.audiusa.com/s4-sedan/d...specifications
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:37 PM
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It is hob nob, not hob knob.

We who achieved the status of the hoi polloi, know that.

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Old 06-18-2012, 04:53 PM
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I assume the S4 would beat down the F30 just based on the fact the S4 comes with real tires, not eco-crazy low resistance prius-thin tires like the F30 carries standard.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:57 PM
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It is hob nob, not hob knob.

We who achieved the status of the hoi polloi, know that.

+1

BMW drivers are poster children for the hoi polloi.


1 Hoi is the Greek word for the, and the phrase hoi polloi means 'the many.' This has led some traditionalists to insist that hoi polloi should not be used in English with the, since that would be to state the word the twice. But, once established in English, expressions such as hoi polloi are typically treated as fixed units and are subject to the rules and conventions of English. Evidence shows that use with the has now become an accepted part of standard English usage: they kept to themselves, away from the hoi polloi (rather than . . . away from hoi polloi). 2 Hoi polloi is sometimes used incorrectly to mean 'upper class'-that is, the exact opposite of its normal meaning. It seems likely that the confusion arose by association with the similar-sounding but otherwise unrelated word hoity-toity.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I am not too sure why they always compare the new F30 with all season tires, to other brands with standard performance tires. The tires make significant contribution to the "spreadsheet" results.

Having said that, I wasn't surprised that the S4 in its standard form is a more fun and better driver's car, it was built that way. It should be compared to a 335i with m sport and other performance add-ons.
I don't think the tires would have made much difference in the final outcome. The way I read it is that the major contributing factors in winning the contest was (1) steering, and (2) Open vs. Sport Diff.

I don't understand your logic of asking them to compare a factory car to a modded car. While the M-Performance parts are designed and made by BMW, they are not part of the car originally made at the factory. Where do we stop? Let them compete with Dinan parts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You can't compare an Audi to a BMW. An Audi isn't a luxury car.

BJ
Say what? I've heard all sorts of arguments, but this one takes the cake...

Look up "fanboi" and your statement is the definition.


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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
I assume the S4 would beat down the F30 just based on the fact the S4 comes with real tires, not eco-crazy low resistance prius-thin tires like the F30 carries standard.
And don't forget the RFT aspect. However, as I stated above, the tire had little to do with numb steering feel or the hyperactive traction control or the open diff. Even with a proper set of summer tires, I don't think the results would have been different.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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I think the S4 is a fine car, and I think its been beat on enough for me to avoid that , but it should also be noted if the "S-Line" is considered their M/AMG division equivalent, should that really be going up against what I would consider a base sedan? I mean it would make me feel better that a non-M base car can compete with another's sport division.

Last edited by SuperTerp; 06-18-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DrivenByF30 View Post
I completely disagree with BoltjaM3s !!!

AUDI is a premium/luxury brand, as much as Lexus is, as much as Infiniti, as much as Acura ... and Cadillac...

AUDI is a luxury brand, period.
You see someone pull up to the country club in a BMW, you go "Ooh, that guy has made it, lucky bastard!"

You see someone pull up to the Target in an Audi, you go "I see someone's Volkswagen dealer has upsold him $50 a month to the rebadged Jetta."

BJ
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:50 PM
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Say what? I've heard all sorts of arguments, but this one takes the cake..

Look up "fanboi" and your statement is the definition.
No one ever says "Oooh, I hate that guy. He drives and Audi." BMW, different story. They write movies about people like us and the cars we ride. Audi? Take a Jetta, throw on some badges, boom, there's your Audi.

Cadillac is a Chevy, not fooling anyone there either. Acura to Honda, it goes on and on. These wannabe "luxury" cars are engineered first and foremost as budget cars for Mr. & Mrs. $47,000 A Year. Then, as a secondary concept, they are re-badged into faux luxury cars for people who don't know any better.

Back when I was a young lad making no coin I drove a beater Honda, couldn't wait to afford an Acura. Driving in it, only took a few days to realize it was no BMW, made no heads turn, made no friends jealous. Instead of being viewed as Mr. Rich Guy, instead I was viewed as Mr. Frugal, got major props for not spending more to "get the BMW".

It's how it works in the real world. Visit it sometime.

BJ
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post

It is hob nob, not hob knob.

We who achieved the status of the hoi polloi, know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
+1

BMW drivers are poster children for the hoi polloi.
Sorry gentlemen, I gave my manservant the day off and he does my proofreading for me. Won't happen again, I assure you. He gets no more days off for the balance of the summer; even my socks were mismatched today, you have no idea how tough it was.

BJ
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:14 PM
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Cheez Whiz goes out of its way to act like it's a "real" cheese, makes the poor people feel special.

BJ
Isn't Cheez Whiz more expensive than real cheese?
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