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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:44 PM
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I think the S4 is a fine car, and I think its been beat on enough for me to avoid that , but it should also be noted if the "S-Line" is considered their M/AMG division equivalent, should that really be going up against what I would consider a base sedan? I mean it would make me feel better that a non-M base car can compete with another's sport division.
Uh, the rs4 is the m equivalent. S is simply their level above the 2.0t.
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
No one ever says "Oooh, I hate that guy. He drives and Audi." BMW, different story. They write movies about people like us and the cars we ride. Audi? Take a Jetta, throw on some badges, boom, there's your Audi.


BJ
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  #28  
Old 06-18-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
I think the S4 is a fine car, and I think its been beat on enough for me to avoid that , but it should also be noted if the "S-Line" is considered their M/AMG division equivalent, should that really be going up against what I would consider a base sedan? I mean it would make me feel better that a non-M base car can compete with another's sport division.
I thought RS was considered M/AMG equivalent for Audi, not S.
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  #29  
Old 06-18-2012, 08:11 PM
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  #30  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:14 PM
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Isn't Cheez Whiz more expensive than real cheese?
Our boltjames are in mixed emotion these days, he is very proud to be ordering a new "real cheez" to replace his 2009 old cheez, unfortunately this activity also reminds him he could have ordered fresh cheez very 6 months, but to insist on the "real cheez" he had to eat old cheez.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2012, 03:48 AM
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I thought RS was considered M/AMG equivalent for Audi, not S.
How is that possible lmao, I see 2 cars with "R" shouldn't really count as a line if you've got two cars. R8 (which I wouldn't classify as really an Rline car) and TTRS.

10+ Amgs
6+ M4 for BMW

That is a what I'd consider a line. Now maybe they still sell RS cars overseas, but if it isn't where I'm driving I don't need to count it.

Last edited by SuperTerp; 06-19-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2012, 04:41 AM
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No, I am not surprised that there are BMW fanboys in a BMW forum, but I am surprise at the number of them. Audi forums have their share of fanboys as well, but they are not as loyal, Mercedes forums are pretty boring
Wonder what the reason would be for that?

I looked at and drove the S4 and A6 before my last trade and ended up sticking with BMW. Audi is getting close but they aren't quite there yet, still just a luxury VW as Lexus is just an upper end Toyota and Caddy a fancy Chevy. One of these days they may make it but not yet.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:17 AM
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I looked at and drove the S4 and A6 before my last trade and ended up sticking with BMW. Audi is getting close but they aren't quite there yet, still just a luxury VW as Lexus is just an upper end Toyota and Caddy a fancy Chevy. One of these days they may make it but not yet.
They will never make it.

No 15 year old is sitting in his mom's basement, staring at the ceiling, pondering his future, dreaming of a successful life, saying to himself "Someday, I'll be able to own an Audi".

It just isn't happening. Audi is a nice upgrade for a Volkswagen owner whose made a few bucks, nothing more. BMW is a status symbol for a Volkswagen owner who's made it.

BJ
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
They will never make it.

No 15 year old is sitting in his mom's basement, staring at the ceiling, pondering his future, dreaming of a successful life, saying to himself "Someday, I'll be able to own an Audi".

It just isn't happening. Audi is a nice upgrade for a Volkswagen owner whose made a few bucks, nothing more. BMW is a status symbol for a Volkswagen owner who's made it.

BJ
Congrats, I think you have really made it to the big time driving a 2009 BMW 328i.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
No one ever says "Oooh, I hate that guy. He drives and Audi." BMW, different story. They write movies about people like us and the cars we ride. Audi? Take a Jetta, throw on some badges, boom, there's your Audi.

Cadillac is a Chevy, not fooling anyone there either. Acura to Honda, it goes on and on. These wannabe "luxury" cars are engineered first and foremost as budget cars for Mr. & Mrs. $47,000 A Year. Then, as a secondary concept, they are re-badged into faux luxury cars for people who don't know any better.

Back when I was a young lad making no coin I drove a beater Honda, couldn't wait to afford an Acura. Driving in it, only took a few days to realize it was no BMW, made no heads turn, made no friends jealous. Instead of being viewed as Mr. Rich Guy, instead I was viewed as Mr. Frugal, got major props for not spending more to "get the BMW".

It's how it works in the real world. Visit it sometime.

BJ
You do realize BMW is "Germany's GM" right? A 318 four banger with cloth and stick certainly isn't a luxury car. Is it?
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  #36  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:50 AM
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Interesting video, and result.

What blows my mind is how close-minded some people can be. I'm a big fan of BMW, but I understand there are lots of other very good cars out there. To say your chosen car is the only good car is like saying your poop doesn't stink like everyone elses.

BMW has the advantage of being a privately owned company, and not part of a huge mega-conglomeration (not counting Mini and RR.) This gives them that "brand cachet" BJ is so focused on. However, and I think many would agree here, but BMW has been watering down their vehicles and brand lately in the pursuit of larger market share. Just look at this very comparison: it was stated multiple times how the 335i was more economical! The eco-tires, the efficient dynamics (including electric steering) and so-on. And that's why the 335i lost this comparo.

Just because Audi (and Lexus, Cadillac, etc.) are parts of larger brands does not make them less of a car. Does the fact that MB sells trucks and inexpensive compacts make them less luxury than BMW? Well, in the mind of narrow-sighted consumers it must. Why do you think MB does not sell those models in the US? In fact, I think Audi has an advantage here: They have more technical resources to rely upon, a larger source of funds, and perhaps most importantly, all those Jettas and Golfs to balance the CAFE numbers so they don't have to turn the 335i into a Prius.

I view BMW, MB and Audi on equal terms. Just as I'm sure a huge segment of consumers do. Lexus too, especially with the new GS beating the 5 Series in comparisons. Cadillac has been upping its game since GM realized they need to build good cars. And Acura and Infinity, Jaguar and Porsche and Fisker and some others are all playing in the same pool. Maybe some of those brands have qualities that I would never consider for myself. But they are there and people buy them. Regardless of what others may think (or not think) about them.

Honestly, if Audi didn't just ditch the Avant from the US market, it would be a very tough decision for me between an F31 and an A4 Avant.
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:03 AM
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Obsession is spot on....fanboys make me crazy.

BMW owners are pretty annoying....I have had 5 in a row...but man, they wonder why people hate them....usually the stereotype fits

BMW is clearly taking things in a different direction, and they cater to a more status oriented buyer, period. Those are facts. They are leaning more towards fuel economy and luxury and moving away from sport.

The last couple models have had numb steering, and the tires are awful. The horrible braking distance has been discussed, and its a real problem. BMW is spending tons of R&D on fuel economy, with start stop (that can stall), sh!tty eco tires, blah blah.

Their sales will continue to go up, they are marketing towards people who want BMWs for status, because they have leather seats etc.

Just recognize they are going in a slightly different direction, that's all.
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  #38  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:07 AM
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You do realize BMW is "Germany's GM" right? A 318 four banger with cloth and stick certainly isn't a luxury car. Is it?
Exactly. Only someone who has not been to Europe would consider BMW a "luxo" brand. News flash ... BMW is like GM in Europe, they build everything. Just look at some of the Welt delivery photos people post, see those crappy looking little weird hatch backs and stuff in the background? Those are the equivelants of the Pontiac Aztek that BMW builds for the Euro market.

Audi ONLY builds upscale cars. The lowest end Audi is something like a 1.3T A3 that sells for something like 30,000 euros. By comparison you have always been able to get a stripped down 3 series in europe that has cloth seats, AM radio, etc. LOL.

Audi are considered much more luxury in Europe than BMW. Only someone delusional is under the impression that round the world people think of Audi as nothing but a fancied up VW.

Last edited by voip-ninja; 06-19-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:11 AM
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Claiming that because BMW is not part of a larger car company means that they make superior or more presitigious products is simply narrow minded and ignorant. Most truly prestigious marques are part of larger companies including Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini (Volkswagen), Ferrari (Fiat).
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You see someone pull up to the country club in a BMW, you go "Ooh, that guy has made it, lucky bastard!"

You see someone pull up to the Target in an Audi, you go "I see someone's Volkswagen dealer has upsold him $50 a month to the rebadged Jetta."

BJ
Actually, we get much more "Oohs" and Ahhs pulling up to our country club in the Audi S4 than we do in either our M3, 335is or 535xi. I guess it's because BMWs around here are like a dime a dozen, whereas Audis look much more exclusive as there are far fewer on the road.

But, maybe you know better as you no doubt see many more cars pulling up to a country club than do I, since you're perhaps the one parking the cars?
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  #41  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:41 AM
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I think that the competition between the two companies is great, at least for the consumer. Audi and BMW will continue to produce great cars and each company will only make the other better. BMW has enjoyed its place atop the luxury sedan market for a very long time and Audi is now coming very close to matching BMW. Personally, when I compared the 3 series to the A4, the choice between the two were clear. However, I am happy that there were two viable options for me to select from and truthfully, I would have been happy with either one.
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:44 AM
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I don't like the way this thread has gone. you know why? because we now have BMW owners defending BMW as being the more luxurious and status conscious. Damn it where has the true reason for BMW ownership, driving the best all around sport sedan in the world gone? Out of the window and this is the reason why the F30 was geared more towards those people that like the status and luxury (not that its neither to me) than someone like me that just loves the way the thing can carve up mountain roads.
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  #43  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Audi are considered much more luxury in Europe than BMW.
And Buicks are big in China I guess I don't see the point to that.

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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
I don't like the way this thread has gone. you know why? because we now have BMW owners defending BMW as being the more luxurious and status conscious.
Exactly, it's totally on the individual to decide that. I don't bat an eye anymore seeing the Bentley GT's there are so many around. If you like your car be thankful you have enough cash to enjoy something you love 328 or m6.

Last edited by SuperTerp; 06-19-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
I think many would agree here, but BMW has been watering down their vehicles and brand lately in the pursuit of larger market share. Just look at this very comparison: it was stated multiple times how the 335i was more economical! The eco-tires, the efficient dynamics (including electric steering) and so-on. And that's why the 335i lost this comparo.
I can somewhat understand BMW's thinking and their new direction. For years, other car companies have been trying to take market share away from BMW by building sportier cars. I must say, a few of those car companies are very close or have succeeded. The market for a ultra sport sedan is a lot smaller than the market for a well compromise luxury sport sedan. Knowing this, BMW is trying to beat their competition at their own game, by building a well compromised design vehicle instead. Sure, they could have gone the other way and design cars that perform better than their competition and become even more hard core, but that will shrink their market even more, instead, they leave the true sport enthusiast with the M-class and some expensive performance options. It’s no doubt a win win situation for BMW as the sales numbers indicates.
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:00 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is online now
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I can somewhat understand BMW's thinking and their new direction. For years, other car companies have been trying to take market share away from BMW by building sportier cars. I must say, a few of those car companies are very close or have succeeded. The market for a ultra sport sedan is a lot smaller than the market for a well compromise luxury sport sedan. Knowing this, BMW is trying to beat their competition at their own game, by building a well compromised design vehicle instead. Sure, they could have gone the other way and design cars that perform better than their competition and become even more hard core, but that will shrink their market even more, instead, they leave the true sport enthusiast with the M-class and some expensive performance options. It's no doubt a win win situation for BMW as the sales numbers indicates.
The other problem is technology, it's far easier for companies to cram a suspension/car full of nannies, and appear too have amazing handling/ or an amazing product, where even 10 years ago it required far more "engineering" and R&D.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:01 AM
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And Buicks are big in China I guess I don't see the point to that.



.
The point is that it was indicated by someone else in this thread that Audi is not a luxury brand, which is a laughably absurd suggestion.
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  #47  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:04 AM
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The point is that it was indicated by someone else in this thread that Audi is not a luxury brand, which is a laughably absurd suggestion.
Gotcha , again totally subjective, delusional as it may seem lol…. I'd never consider Buick a lux-o brand, but PBS ran a whole segment on news hour, for China and I was shocked , not my taste, but who am I to wreck someone on a purchase they feel good about.
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:06 AM
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Gotcha , again totally subjective, delusional as it may seem lol… I'd never consider Buick a lux-o brand, but PBS ran a whole segment on news hour , not my taste, but who am I to wreck someone on a purchase they feel good about.
Well there are marquees where you can have that debate, or it might depend on the market (Pontiac in China, etc)... however, to suggest that ANY of the premium marquees like Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes are not luxury brand is patently ridiculous. They are luxe in ALL of the markets they sell in.
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  #49  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:22 AM
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You do realize BMW is "Germany's GM" right? A 318 four banger with cloth and stick certainly isn't a luxury car. Is it?
one man's country's trash is another man's country's treasure.
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:36 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Not to mention the fact that if you boil it down, there is no longer such a thing as a "Luxury Car", "Sports Car", "Family Car", etc. Everything built today by all the manufacturers have some blend of two or more of these "classes".

A modern BMW such as the 3 Series has perhaps a 45/35/20 blend of Luxury/Sports/Family in it. Even classic enthusiast BMWs like the E30 were not 100% of any class. Though perhaps it was more of a 20/60/20 blend.

Manufacturers will chase the money. And modern consumers seem more interested in throwing their money at luxury and prestige than sport and handling. Even your super and hyper cars have leather seats, doodads, and are drivable without bodily injury or risk of death.
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