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  #1  
Old 05-09-2013, 04:54 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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DIY: iPod Retrofit w/ MMI FaceLift for 2002+ e65

DIY: iPod Retrofit w/ MMI FaceLift for 2002+ e65

Thanks to PAPER for pointing me in the right direction and for his time, consideration, and patience via multiple PMs.

Background
I've been looking into MP3 capability for my 2004 e65 since 2007. I stopped looking after 2008 to focus on modding my 335i. Now that it's sold, I am turning back my attention to the e65. I did a search and seems great progress has been made between 2010 and 2012. Bimmerfest is a great source of information, although the information is a bit "hide & seek"--no real part numbers provided, vague references, and etc which is why I'm making this thread as a compilation of info I've researched here and some info I've gathered from previous projects.

Retrofitting is a great passion of mine, you can see my exhaustive list of retrofits for my 335i here.


Overview

Parts
  1. Facelift ("FL") MMI. The MMI is the multimedia interface, the navigation screen. Facelift MMI pertains to MMIs with a production date of 03/05 or later (source), as those screens allow for text display, among other features. From what I've read on Bimmerfest, most members recommend getting a 2006 production date MMI, which is a sure shot, but I got an MMI with production date of 31/05, which means it was produced week 31 of 2005, and thus I was hoping it was an early production 2006 car. I was wrong. I flashed the unit with WinKFP and it was still C02 and a far cry from the C04 I needed. I ended up forking over $600 for a 50/06 MMI, also from eBay. The 2005 MMI was much, much faster than my 2004 MMI, but that was it, no new features. I've documented the WinKFP portion at the very end for the curious. If you have a C03, I am fairly certain there is a good chance you can successfully program to C04 with WinKFP. Give it a go and let me know.
  2. BMW iPod Retrofit Kit. I've read different recommendations on Bimmerfest but there is basically only one MOST iPod retrofit kit out there. The part# is 65-11-0-439-429, superceding the older 65-11-0-439-425, which would also work just fine.
  3. Dash Cover. Here is a part# that can help you search: 51457005852. I got mine here. You can get it from EAS also here.
Coding
You will need to learn how to code. I made a Coding DIY thread back in January 2011 here. It needs updating but it'll get you basics for what you need to do here. Remember to back up your .trc files. Remember coding will never "brick" your car, as opposed to programming, of which you should be very careful. You can always reset by coding the car in Expert Profile or using the semi-controversial blank .MAN approach.

Step 1 - Pre-Coding
Back up your original MMI trc as referenced here.

Step 2 - Remove Dash & Install FL MMI
  1. You can follow the OEM procedure here
  2. Or this YouTube video is great
  3. Or fellow Bimmerfest member's guide here

Pics from my Installation...I needed T-10/T-15/Phillips bits/and 8mm for the bolt on the side












Step 3 - Install iPod Retrofit
Follow MOPAULY's guide here.

PICS:




Step 4 - Reassemble Dash
Refer to Step 2

Step 5 - Post-Coding
Reference post by Jml6278 here. It's the second to last post on the page. Also reference this thread.
Quick Summary:
  1. EDIT VO to #0904; add +IPOD; remove CDC; FA_WRITE with NCSExpert
  2. FSWPSW Profile: Read new MMIGT module, compare to old MMIGT trc file, and edit accordingly. Rename .TRC to .MAN, load up the .MAN file and SG_CODIEREN
  3. Since the donor MMI will have a different VIN, you can change it by FA_WRITE. Although it will work fine if you skip this step. Reference this post if you need help. It's step 3 & 4, but obviously use module MMIGT instead of FRM.
  4. Ipod will work at this point, but will be CD1/CD2/ETC
  5. Expert Profile - SG_CODIEREN the MMIGT
  6. FSWPSW Profile: the IPOD_ADD should now show up. IPOD_ADD set to AKTIV
  7. Expert Profile - SG_CODIEREN the MMIGT

PICS:

Pre-FL MMI shows MMI_E65_C02 - both my 04 and 31/05 MMIs showed this. Even after WinKFP flashing, it was still C02 so it's not just a matter of updating firmware, there are significant hardware differences.


Add #0904 to Vehicle Code


FA_WRITE


FL MMI


IPOD_ADD (after SG_CODIEREN w/ EXPERT PROFILE...IPOD_ADD will show up in TRC automatically)


After IPOD_ADD


After IPOD_ADD


What a mess


MMI_E65_C04 finally...







MY WinKFP Efforts - Lesson Learned

For the Curious:

Go the ZUSB from INPA


Compiled Assembly Line through WinKFP and ran it


Preliminary Pass


Flashing...it took 22 minutes..fuggit I risked it all by keeping the engine running while flashing...which is a huge no-no


Whew...finished OK


But still C02...fail
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Last edited by AoshichanX; 05-09-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2013, 05:13 PM
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PAPER PAPER is offline
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Very Nice write Up . don't forget to add IPOD to
your V.O.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:59 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Thanks Paper! Made the corrections.

I also wanted to add that I first read this post by AceFX and got really excited. I read more and more of his posts and a pattern emerged: he was very vague about a lot of things and it was very frustrating reading his vague inferences and sketchy descriptions. Plus his "How-To" videos only show the end result and it never provides any meaningful instruction.

Anyway with reference the AceFX's post linked above and quoted below, the iPod retrofit was not plug and play, contrary to what he had written, at least for me. I tried it both on my 2004 MMI and the 2005 MMI and it would not work. I did all the coding and it still didn't work.








Quote:
Originally Posted by AceFX View Post
YES....
See my post on the successful interior facelift upgrade. It was too easy and worked a treat. There is no need to buy mob ridge or anything like that and no programming is necessary. You remove the CD Changer in your dash and throw it in the bin or sell it on eBay, then, connect the iPOD unit into exactly the same connector as the CD Changer was in, zip tie it down. Purchase the replacement dash trim which does not have the opening in it for the CD Changer. Turn your car on, wait a few minutes whilst the MMI discovers the iPOD interface and then it all works fine. If you have the pre facelift Mmi you won't get all the text and song lists etc, but, if you do what I did, and buy the facelift MMI and fir that in, you get all the text, song lists etc and you control it all from your iDrive. I did no programming. The only thing that you may need to do is the next time your at BMW, ask them to include the iPOD retrofit on your cars order on the MOST. It doesn't stop it from working, it just stops future programming updates because the MOST hasn't been "officially" told it is there.
This was the same when I upgraded my NAV unit to the facelift NAV unit. It worked straight away but hadn't been "officially" added to the MOST network, so when I was at the BMW dealer getting a new fuel pressure sensor fitted, they "officially" added the NAV to the MOST network. The BMW service manager says, all they are doing is "officially" adding it to the cars order, the MOST network so when they go to updates in the future, the program won't hang because it has encountered an unknown device on the MOST network.
So in summary, the genuine BMW iPod retrofit is a straight plug and play, no NCS, no coding, no nothing, and if you have the facelift MMI you will get full song text and lists etc. If you have the pre-facelift screen, you ant see the song text but you can still control your iPod......................... sorry if you spent money on a Mobridge.......
Read Paper's post att eh start of this thread and what he saw and was explained to him is true.... I have done it myself.

And by the way, if you don't have the CD Changer in your dash, you can still do this iPOD retrofit. With the retrofit kit you purchase this adapter cable, Cable adapter 61120412795 $38.25, and all will be well..... again commiseration's if your bought a Mobridge.....

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  #4  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:03 AM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Arghhh, I think I may have returned that 2005 MMI too soon. I was just thinking about it. I took a look at my 2004 MMI as well as some 2002 MMIs on eBay.

2002 MMIs - HW 00
2004 MMI - HW 02
2005 MMI - HW 03
2007 MMI - HW 03

So if HW stands for hardware version, then that 2005 MMI had the same hardware as the 2007 MMI.

If I had still had the 2005 MMI I would get the ZUSB info from the 2007 MMI with INPA, swap it out, and flash it onto the 2005 MMI with WinKFP.

Sigh, I could have saved $400 since I bought the 2005 for $200. Oh well can't win them all.
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2013, 11:29 AM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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Thank you very much for all your work in putting together this post.

I am going to install the adapter in a 2008 750i next week and have a question about file structure. Does the software provide a flat or nested structure? Flat would be: Playlists --> tracks (songs). Nested would be: Playlists --> Albums --> tracks (songs). I ask because the first versions of the Ipod adapter around 2006 were flat structures and many people complained about the problem of organizing 10,000 tracks of music (and were using playlists to help with this). One of your screen shots, however, shows the option to select tracks or "folders" which suggests the addition of a nested structure. If i knew about this now, it would help me set up the Ipod for next week.

Also, how is the scrolling speed in long lists of tracks? Early on people thought it was too slow, about two per second.

Many thanks again,
Wally
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:32 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Hey Wally,

I believe it is nested. Also, the iPod adapter is the same and hasn't changed. Rather the software needs to be updated. I think you were referring to the CD1/CD2/CD3/CD4/CD5/CD6 old school iPod menu.

I'm not sure if you've ever had an e90, but this is the same scrolling speed as a 2007-2008 e90 and also in the same manner: it's pretty fast but hampered by the haptic feedback.

Ofc the 2009+ CIC is really fast with no slow down, but at least for me, the e65 iPod adapter was just fine. Moving back to select different playlists you may need to wait a second or two, but once you are in it's quite breezy in selecting different tracks.

Unfortunately I have sold this vehicle so I cannot do further testing but please let me know if you require any further assistance. I will help as much as I can.







Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyO View Post
Thank you very much for all your work in putting together this post.

I am going to install the adapter in a 2008 750i next week and have a question about file structure. Does the software provide a flat or nested structure? Flat would be: Playlists --> tracks (songs). Nested would be: Playlists --> Albums --> tracks (songs). I ask because the first versions of the Ipod adapter around 2006 were flat structures and many people complained about the problem of organizing 10,000 tracks of music (and were using playlists to help with this). One of your screen shots, however, shows the option to select tracks or "folders" which suggests the addition of a nested structure. If i knew about this now, it would help me set up the Ipod for next week.

Also, how is the scrolling speed in long lists of tracks? Early on people thought it was too slow, about two per second.

Many thanks again,
Wally
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:50 PM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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Thanks so much--this sounds like a big improvement over what I read about it in 2006, which was the CD1- CD2, etc. arrangement. I'm also glad to hear about the scrolling speed because apparently it was very slow at the beginning. I'm used to scrolling the phone book (about 600 entries with no alpha select) and it's tolerable. The dealer will be updating the software to, I'm assuming, the latest version. I'll make a post after I get the unit on the chance that it will be useful to others. I bought this car new and have only about 23,000 miles on it, so I'm going to be keeping it for a while. I've driven the newer cars, and the entire nav system in much better, but not worth 100k for sure. My thanks again, Wally.

Last edited by WallyO; 08-21-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-21-2013, 01:57 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyO View Post
Thanks so much--this sounds like a big improvement over what I read about it in 2006, which was the CD1- CD2, etc. arrangement. I'm also glad to hear about the scrolling speed because apparently it was very slow at the beginning. I'm used to scrolling the phone book (about 600 entries with no alpha select) and it's tolerable. The dealer will be updating the software to, I'm assuming, the latest version. I'll make a post after I get the unit on the chance that it will be useful to others. I bought this car new and have only about 23,000 miles on it, so I'm going to be keeping it for a while. I've driven the newer cars, and the entire nav system in much better, but not worth 100k for sure. My thanks again, Wally.
Hey Wally,

Your car is a 2008 so your software doesn't need to be updated; rather your system just need be "coded" to properly recognize the iPod retrofit.

But if you are paying your Dealer to install everything that's fine, just make sure they don't charge you more than 1 hour for the programming or whatever they call it.

Realistically it's only a 10 minute process. I have an old Windows XP laptop so 3-5 minutes to fully boot up, 1-2 minutes to take cable out connect cable to car, 30 seconds to load up NCSExpert, load Expert Profile, find the module, then press the "sg_codieren" button. All done

I had a 2004 745i so I had to do much more work.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2013, 02:24 PM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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I can't thank you enough for being so helpful. Yes, they plan to code it and they've quoted me 1 to 1.5 hours for the whole install, including the coding. It's Sonnen BMW in San Rafael, CA and they've been excellent in terms of workmanship and very fair about everything.

I have one last question if you're able to answer it. At the top level (Playlists/Artisits/Genres, etc.) do you remember if "Composers" one of the options? This would only show if you had it turned on in iTunes. That would help me organize the iPod ahead of time. I've got a 64 gb G5 with about 600 albums, about half classical, on it. The encoding is AAC VBR 500.

Best,
Wally
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:49 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Hey Wally,

No problem. 1-1.5 hours is a great deal considering they are tearing apart the dash.

Yes, I believe Composers are one of the options iirc. However, I'd like to impart some quick tips because you seem to be going down a similar path of sorting as I had done. I like to browse my music by albums. Unfortunately in using the iPod I have to deal with iTunes. Now, iTunes is very finicky with how albums are grouped. Having your MP3s showing the same album name is not enough. They will not be grouped together properly. What you have to do is highlight all the songs, right click and make sure the "part of a compilation" is selected as detailed in this support thread: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1468.

Now that is a huge hassle for me to have to do this for all my albums. I know you are mentioning the Composer specifically but you may run into similar issues.

I didn't want to go to the Playlist method, but so far it's just been much easier to group songs together. I group songs I want then use MP3Tag to make a playlist. Then drag and drop the playlist to iTunes and sync.

Also, I haven't tested AAC, but some of the higher vbr MP3s didn't have the best of times in my 745i, some screeching and skipping involved.






Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyO View Post
I can't thank you enough for being so helpful. Yes, they plan to code it and they've quoted me 1 to 1.5 hours for the whole install, including the coding. It's Sonnen BMW in San Rafael, CA and they've been excellent in terms of workmanship and very fair about everything.

I have one last question if you're able to answer it. At the top level (Playlists/Artisits/Genres, etc.) do you remember if "Composers" one of the options? This would only show if you had it turned on in iTunes. That would help me organize the iPod ahead of time. I've got a 64 gb G5 with about 600 albums, about half classical, on it. The encoding is AAC VBR 500.

Best,
Wally
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2013, 08:06 PM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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Thank you again!

Yes, iTunes is a very problematic program, and I have it contained within a VM on a Win8 64 bit computer because it is also badly behaved in terms of OS corruption on PCs in my experience.

I also own a new VW that has built in iPod connectivity and I already have one iPod in that car. The car displays things exactly as they are displayed on the iPod itself. For the popular music I scroll the Artist category and within an artist the albums are displayed alphabetically and the songs in original album order. On the classical music, I have entered a composer for each album and in the car I use the composer list, then select the album, and the tracks are in album order. So on this car at least, this approach both by Artist and Composer seems to work.

The BMW might handle this differently. It was in anticipation of the BMW that I even got into playlists, but I hope I do not have to use them. Playlists don't seems to recognize albums at all, just tracks. Albums or artists entered into a play list seem to just be tracks with no album infrastructure. But they seem to list in album order automatically and in album track order (i.e. with the order they were in on the album) if when the playlist is created you specify Album order rather than the default Manual order.

The Album display for me would be very difficult to use: 632 albums many of them with identical or similar names ("Piano Concerto No. 2," etc.). But I'm going to look at the link you gave me. I have seen iTunes split albums into multiple albums when all the data in the control-i menu is not identical and I've had to learn to be very careful about that.

On the conversion, I use WMA lossless files in the house and the iTunes material is a conversion of those files. I think the AAC VBR 500 files are 80% or more of the originals and in a noisy car (even the BMW) are more than good enough.

I'll look at your link now. I also had a look at your Porsche mods and it's a beautiful car. I've thought often of a Porsche, but I've had only SAABs, MBs and BMWs. Don't ask me why because Porsches are wonderful, and I definitely have a German car thing. This includes the surprisingly excellent VW Golf TDI with a twin-clutch transmission. I'm having a love affair with that BMW though. I think it's an amazing piece of engineering and, with the sports suspension, active anti-roll, and Pilot Sport tires, a lot of fun to drive.

Best wishes,
Wally
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:01 AM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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For those who are interested in putting in the iPod adapter themselves, or just interested in accessing the CD changer, I've attached as a PDF the factory instructions for trim removal. The factory instructions refer back and forth to the separate tasks, and I've placed them in the order they must be done.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CD Changer Removal.pdf (3.20 MB, 74 views)
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:33 PM
AoshichanX AoshichanX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyO View Post
Thank you again!

Yes, iTunes is a very problematic program, and I have it contained within a VM on a Win8 64 bit computer because it is also badly behaved in terms of OS corruption on PCs in my experience.

I also own a new VW that has built in iPod connectivity and I already have one iPod in that car. The car displays things exactly as they are displayed on the iPod itself. For the popular music I scroll the Artist category and within an artist the albums are displayed alphabetically and the songs in original album order. On the classical music, I have entered a composer for each album and in the car I use the composer list, then select the album, and the tracks are in album order. So on this car at least, this approach both by Artist and Composer seems to work.

The BMW might handle this differently. It was in anticipation of the BMW that I even got into playlists, but I hope I do not have to use them. Playlists don't seems to recognize albums at all, just tracks. Albums or artists entered into a play list seem to just be tracks with no album infrastructure. But they seem to list in album order automatically and in album track order (i.e. with the order they were in on the album) if when the playlist is created you specify Album order rather than the default Manual order.

The Album display for me would be very difficult to use: 632 albums many of them with identical or similar names ("Piano Concerto No. 2," etc.). But I'm going to look at the link you gave me. I have seen iTunes split albums into multiple albums when all the data in the control-i menu is not identical and I've had to learn to be very careful about that.

On the conversion, I use WMA lossless files in the house and the iTunes material is a conversion of those files. I think the AAC VBR 500 files are 80% or more of the originals and in a noisy car (even the BMW) are more than good enough.

I'll look at your link now. I also had a look at your Porsche mods and it's a beautiful car. I've thought often of a Porsche, but I've had only SAABs, MBs and BMWs. Don't ask me why because Porsches are wonderful, and I definitely have a German car thing. This includes the surprisingly excellent VW Golf TDI with a twin-clutch transmission. I'm having a love affair with that BMW though. I think it's an amazing piece of engineering and, with the sports suspension, active anti-roll, and Pilot Sport tires, a lot of fun to drive.

Best wishes,
Wally
The VW system sounds more intuitive than the BMW haha. Thanks for the kind words RE the Porsche. It was actually a last minute decision. The monthly turned out to be exactly same as the current M3 (it's a lease, M3 residual was 63% and Porsche was 77%) so decided to try something new!






Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyO View Post
For those who are interested in putting in the iPod adapter themselves, or just interested in accessing the CD changer, I've attached as a PDF the factory instructions for trim removal. The factory instructions refer back and forth to the separate tasks, and I've placed them in the order they must be done.
Thanks Wally! Kindly let us know how everything goes!!
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:35 PM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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I'll report back. The dealer is supposed to put the iPod adapter in this coming Thursday, the 29th. I'm going to have to use the installation to figure out how to configure the iPod (playlists vs. this and that). There isn't much in the BMW that *is* intuitive, which I imagine you already noticed. Keep the Porsche jewel out of the mud! Best, Wally

Last edited by WallyO; 08-23-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:08 PM
WallyO WallyO is offline
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Now have a complete installation

I thought I'd post a follow up for those who are interested in the latest E65/E66 iPod integration as of September 2013.

I had my excellent dealer, Sonnen in San Rafael, CA, do the work. The parts included the interface; screwed, rigid mounting bracket (which replaces the felt and nylon tie arrangement originally provided); and the dashboard trim without CD changer slot and button. The parts total was 450.20. The labor was $420 (at the very high rates we have in CA) but this seemed quite reasonable to me. For me, $870 is a bargain to be able to drive around with 600+ CDs ripped at VBR 500%. They run in the range of 300-450 kbps. The sound through the Logic 7 system is excellent.

The BMW software interface is acceptable but certainly not excellent in terms of controlling the iPod data. I say this as someone who listens mostly to classical music, not "songs." In the main Entertainment menu, the iPod is still shown as "CDC." At the top level of CDC, the choices are Playlist, Artist, Albums Genres and Songs. The only sub level to each of these is just a list of all the tracks in that category. This is not a good system for classical music where one listens to Beethoven > Symphony # 7 > Track one, two, three, four, all in correct order. The system is really set up for someone who listens to popular songs which don't have to be in any particular order and might even be 'shuffled." (I believe that in this installation, shuffling shuffles everything on the iPod, not just tracks within the selected playlist. This seems like an error to me.)

For the classical music I've had to create playlists to access the music in reasonable-length lists (Playlist > Tracks). The material is listed in album order (as specified on the iPod itself, see below), but albums themselves are not shown on the BMW. To help this problem, I've written the first track of each album beginning with an * and in all CAPS. This makes it easy to pick out each album while scrolling.

The Playlists are things like Bach Solo Keyboard, Bach Miscellaneous, Beethoven Violin Sonatas, Beethoven String Quartets, etc. The Artist, Albums, Genres and Songs are not usable with this kind of music. The iPod itself, a 64gb Gen. 5, provides a Composer category (Composer > Album > Track) that makes it much easier to access classical music. The BMW software lacks this. When the playlists are created in iTunes, you have to specify that they are in "album order." Other options are things like alphabetical which would be useless with classical music.

The scrolling is speed-controllable with the I-Drive controller and functions from one line at a time to extremely fast. Long list aren't much of a problem. Altogether, the control software is adequate but not up to contemporary standards.

I hope this information is helpful.

Wally
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:33 AM
Obioban Obioban is offline
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Mein Auto: M3
I'll shortly be adding the BMW iPod interface to a 2009 e91 without iDrive (wife's new car).

Do you happen to know what coding changes I should make for just the iPod interface for a non iDrive car?

Thanks!
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Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2003 TiAg M5, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car _____Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell
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