128i vs Toyota 86GTS or Subaru BRZ

OK... who has tested the new BRZ / 86GTS

how does this new coupe RWD from Japan stack up aginst the German RWD

86GTS : sold out and waiting list is getting very long daily

Originally Posted by SilverX3

OK... who has tested the new BRZ / 86GTS

how does this new coupe RWD from Japan stack up aginst the German RWD

86GTS : sold out and waiting list is getting very long daily

Have you tried the the BRZ, hows the demand on that car, they are very similar may not have as much of a wait time on it.

It's smaller, lighter (under 3000 lbs) with a 2000cc 4 cylinder and cheaper. It is supposed to be similarly quick (about 6 second 0-60 and sub 15 second quarter). The torque and hp peaks are so high I am guessing this is like driving a V-Tec and not like a bimmer 6 - very limited low end torque. 12.5 to one compression suggests premium gas is going to be REQUIRED (I usually use mid-grade in my 128i). So while it may be quick if you stay near redline I think it might feel underpowered in daily driving. Rear seat would be even less useful than a 128i.

If you can't afford the BMW this could be an option. If you can, I don't think you'd be happy with these alternatives.

Jim

I mean to take a test drive one of these days... see if the steering feel does it for me (as far as I am concerned, steering FEEL is the No. 1 factor when it comes to everyday driving).

I like my 128i but the steering feel leaves something to be desired. Specially when I compared it to the E90 3 series.

If the Toyobaru has a more communicative steering, that would be the car for me.

Originally Posted by jatbeni

I mean to take a test drive one of these days... see if the steering feel does it for me (as far as I am concerned, steering FEEL is the No. 1 factor when it comes to everyday driving).

I like my 128i but the steering feel leaves something to be desired. Specially when I compared it to the E90 3 series.

If the Toyobaru has a more communicative steering, that would be the car for me.

For my money the steering feel in my 135i is superb. There's always plenty of "chatter" from the tires that keep me up to date on what's going on at the wheels, and it hard corners it's easy to modulate. I have a suspicion that the lack of feel you're getting is more a function of the suspension and wheels (as I recall, the only differences between the two cars in that department). A good set of aftermarket wheels and skinnier rubber (preferably not run-flat!) might make a world of difference... but then so will some suspension mods.

A discussion about steering feel is always difficult to have, because it is such a subjective area... what one person likes can be so different than the next... Anyhow, to set a baseline for this discussion, I have a manual 128 with the sport package and I am on the summers right now. Without going too crazy with it, this is as good as it gets on a 128 from BMW.

So - I am not saying - it is completely lacking in the feel department... all I am saying is, I just PREFER (that being the key here) the e90 3 series. I think that BMW saved its best for its bread and butter model... So - the 128 is pretty darn good, but the e90 just felt better (even in the non-sport guise). And I still remember the older e36 that I drove many many years ago... (but I don't want to go there, because the experience was too far back in time, and memories can grow fonder with time, so...)

Anyway - I am also not asserting that your experience is to be discounted here. Steering feel is subjective after all.

All I am really saying is - driving from point A to point B, I would judge a car first and foremost based on steering feel, and for the most part, the performance numbers will not matter much (in this day and age, even a Camry can put out pretty reasonable numbers). And if the Toyobaru has that quality, that is the car for me (and based on what I have read, it does, and it is).

P.S. - For the most part, I reserve my biggest disappointment for the new 911 (without so much as going near it). For eons, I have read about how communicative a 911's steering was and how it even put a Ferrari to shame (and this was a Scuderia Ferrari engineer telling me - and he had driven both) - and then they go and put a Electric unit in that! Sure, it is faster than the previous one on a track... but who cares? I don't need to impress anyone... all I need is my car to put a smile on my face, whether I drive it slowly to the grocery store, or on a energetic drive to somewhere in the wee hours...

I don't know if it would help you but because the bimmer steering is electric, it can also be programmed. The 1M is a different program than a 128i. If you can code, you can switch your 128i to the 1M steering feel.

Jim

Originally Posted by JimD1

I don't know if it would help you but because the bimmer steering is electric, it can also be programmed. The 1M is a different program than a 128i. If you can code, you can switch your 128i to the 1M steering feel.

Jim

The 1M has hydraulic power steering, just like the 135i. There's been conflicting reports about the 128i and if it has electric or hydraulic, guess the easiest way is to pop the hood and check for the pump.

Originally Posted by ND40oz

The 1M has hydraulic power steering, just like the 135i. There's been conflicting reports about the 128i and if it has electric or hydraulic, guess the easiest way is to pop the hood and check for the pump.

Mine (2011) is hydraulic.

The 128 has hydraulic steering -

Its only with the new 1 series - the one that is not sold in the US - that BMW introduced the EPS.

Here is a review of the new 1 series on Autocar - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/1-series

Quotes from page on "Ride and Handling" of that online review - "The 1-series' electro-mechanical power steering is a big improvement over the old car's heavy hydraulic system."

Ergo - all E8x model 1 series had a hydraulic steering...

Originally Posted by jatbeni

Here is a review of the new 1 series on Autocar - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/1-series

Quotes from page on "Ride and Handling" of that online review - "The 1-series' electro-mechanical power steering is a big improvement over the old car's heavy hydraulic system."

Ergo - all E8x model 1 series had a hydraulic steering...

Starting with the 5 door E87 LCI (all of the E81, E82 and E88 since they were released with the E87 LCI), all the Euro 1 Series had electric except for the 135i and 1M.

I'm just not as familiar with the US spec 128i to know which steering setup it got.

Here's a good post that goes over the changes in 2007 with the facelift and the efficiency dynamics implementation: http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php...22821&p=237105

And the press release for the 120i, 125i and 135i E82, the 120i and 125i both have EPS and the 135i has hydraulic: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...yxgnRIU8WWg-Pg

Well - I think ND40oz is right about some of the Euro model 1's having a EPS even in the E8x guise.

The US spec 128 apparently has a hydraulic system (a google search led to 1addicts - leads to threads with pictures of people showing off the under hood hydraulic reservoir). I will personally check - once I get back to my car after work today... who knows with all the different config's on sale, one model year may be different than the next!

Originally Posted by jatbeni

Anyway - I am also not asserting that your experience is to be discounted here. Steering feel is subjective after all.

All I am really saying is - driving from point A to point B, I would judge a car first and foremost based on steering feel, and for the most part, the performance numbers will not matter much (in this day and age, even a Camry can put out pretty reasonable numbers). And if the Toyobaru has that quality, that is the car for me (and based on what I have read, it does, and it is).

Thanks... and of course you're right. Steering feel is one of the most personal of things and believe me there are people who've driven both my current 135i and my previous BMW's and thought they were horrible cars to drive precisely because of the steering being so communicative.

Maybe I'm just not picky enough... but for me the steering in the 135i is excellent. I've driven 911's as well and found them phenomenal (older models) but never clicked with the rest of the car, and the BMW's just generally had a better all-around "feel" about the entire package for me. My 135i to me is one of the best all-rounders I've ever owned... a little less busy than my 330i but not as soft as the 545i. Also nowhere near as good as an older 911 but also a lot less high-strung and generally a less "look-at-me" car. For my needs it's great.

BTW, the sport suspension was different in 2011/2012 1'ers than in previous years. Depending on what year you have might also vary the steering feel. If you have a 2011 or 2012 then honestly I don't know what to tell you

As far as the E9x... the only one of those that had steering I really loved was the M3; the E90 and E92 felt just a smidge off... more akin to my 545i than my 330i, and nothing like a 911. Again, maybe subjective but the M3 was easily on-par with the best cars I've ever driven... maybe the standard E92 just disappointed me.