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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:51 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbyj View Post
The acceleration of a motorcycle is phenomenal and leaning into curves at 60 mph on country roads is a thrill you will never get from a "cage" vehicle. When I get back into my 535 I do love driving it, especially on interstates, but as far as "spirited driving," etc., there is no comparison between these behemoths of the highway and a motorcycles.
I fell off a treadmill running full speed and it skinned my knee. I couldn't imagine falling off a bike, while going 60+ it would be like a hot knife through butter

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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Besides, Canon's just never feel "right".
Thats because something so right feels wrong We have a 5D not sure if its a mark 2 or 3, I don't touch it, too many buttons to take a picture. Its like driving a manual

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  #52  
Old 06-25-2012, 05:22 AM
kirbyj kirbyj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
I fell off a treadmill running full speed and it skinned my knee. I couldn't imagine falling off a bike, while going 60+ it would be like a hot knife through butter.
That's why riding a motorcycle is so thrilling! (very spirited in car jargon)
I do wear all the protective gear but there always is that possibility of flying off the bike if you don't negotiate the corner correctly. Keeps you highly focused and in the "now." That's why getting back into a car can seem so tame.
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  #53  
Old 06-25-2012, 05:59 AM
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Letís just ignore for a moment those ridiculous comments about Lexus being a Toyota and Lexus is not as prestige as a BMW and compare the 535i and the GS350 at their face value. In my opinion, the GS does not feel and look as luxurious as the 535, if I were looking for a sportier sedan, I would pick the A6 over the GS on looks alone. Some may like the GS's front end, but to me, it looks JC Whitney, more fitting for a teenager than a professional man like myself. Engine wise, the GS's 3.5L engine needs to rev really high in order to get any real power out of it and the 6 speed transmission is pretty old school. The navigation system has a lock out mode while the car is above 5 MPH, even the passenger cannot operate the navi while in motion which is pretty frustrating if you are on the highway.
I considered the GS before I bought my 535xi, it just doesnít look like a $60000 car to me on the outside, the interior is on par with BMW and Audi and the steering is probably the best in class, but I think my 535xi with its hydraulic steering is still better than the GS in highway handling. The BMW is also more tank like and has that solid feel to it that the GS lacks. Overall, the GS is another good attempt by Lexus to compete with the Germans, but the sales numbers tells the story here, the 535 out sold the GS by a margin of 3 to 1 in the US for the month of May.
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  #54  
Old 06-25-2012, 07:00 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Letís just ignore for a moment those ridiculous comments about Lexus being a Toyota and Lexus is not as prestige as a BMW and compare the 535i and the GS350 at their face value. In my opinion, the GS does not feel and look as luxurious as the 535, if I were looking for a sportier sedan, I would pick the A6 over the GS on looks alone. Some may like the GS's front end, but to me, it looks JC Whitney, more fitting for a teenager than a professional man like myself. Engine wise, the GS's 3.5L engine needs to rev really high in order to get any real power out of it and the 6 speed transmission is pretty old school. The navigation system has a lock out mode while the car is above 5 MPH, even the passenger cannot operate the navi while in motion which is pretty frustrating if you are on the highway.
I considered the GS before I bought my 535xi, it just doesnít look like a $60000 car to me on the outside, the interior is on par with BMW and Audi and the steering is probably the best in class, but I think my 535xi with its hydraulic steering is still better than the GS in highway handling. The BMW is also more tank like and has that solid feel to it that the GS lacks. Overall, the GS is another good attempt by Lexus to compete with the Germans, but the sales numbers tells the story here, the 535 out sold the GS by a margin of 3 to 1 in the US for the month of May.
I think the sales will get better once he word gets out about the improved GS. I agree the 6 speed transmission is outdated.
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  #55  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:41 AM
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I would say the word is already out on the new GS350, if the GS' sales trend follows the last 2 gens, it will probably peak out after this year and level off next year. After that, it will start to fall.
I live very close to a Lexus dealer and I can see an increase in the number of BMW in their used car lot. No doubt a majority of those BMW are traded for the new GS. Lexus are having their day in the sun right now with the new GS, very little discount the last time I talk to the dealer. According to the dealer, the GS is in very high demand.
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  #56  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:00 AM
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Sales figures do not mean anything.

E-class sales number is always the best in its class, does it mean E is the best in the class? I don't think so
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  #57  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Sales figures do not mean anything.

E-class sales number is always the best in its class, does it mean E is the best in the class? I don't think so
I am sure the E class is best in class in someone else's mind, you and I might not agree, but everybody have different priorities when it comes to cars.
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  #58  
Old 06-26-2012, 09:17 AM
mrich1353 mrich1353 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I would say the word is already out on the new GS350, if the GS' sales trend follows the last 2 gens, it will probably peak out after this year and level off next year. After that, it will start to fall.
I live very close to a Lexus dealer and I can see an increase in the number of BMW in their used car lot. No doubt a majority of those BMW are traded for the new GS. Lexus are having their day in the sun right now with the new GS, very little discount the last time I talk to the dealer. According to the dealer, the GS is in very high demand.
You never know...when I cross shopped one of my local Audi dealers looking at the A6 last year, I was surprised at the BMW's on their used car lot and thought the same - trades for the A6, was even led to believe the same. I then went on the dealers site which happened to include carfax, and what do you know, they were from the auction!
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  #59  
Old 06-26-2012, 04:26 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I would say the word is already out on the new GS350, if the GS' sales trend follows the last 2 gens, it will probably peak out after this year and level off next year. After that, it will start to fall.
I live very close to a Lexus dealer and I can see an increase in the number of BMW in their used car lot. No doubt a majority of those BMW are traded for the new GS. Lexus are having their day in the sun right now with the new GS, very little discount the last time I talk to the dealer. According to the dealer, the GS is in very high demand.
I actually did notice several BMWs in the yard of the dealer I went to; since I don't go to Lexus dealers very often I could not judge if that was unusual or not.
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  #60  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:32 PM
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Prestige: E-class > F10 = GS > A6
Drivetrain: A6 > F10 > GS = E-class
Chassis: GS > A6 > F10 > E-class
Int design: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Ext Design: F10 > E-class = A6 > GS
Electronics gadgets: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Dealership: GS > F10 = E-class > A6

No clear winner here. BMW used to be a clear winner back in the E39 era.
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  #61  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:57 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Prestige: E-class > F10 = GS > A6
Drivetrain: A6 > F10 > GS = E-class
Chassis: GS > A6 > F10 > E-class
Int design: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Ext Design: F10 > E-class = A6 > GS
Electronics gadgets: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Dealership: GS > F10 = E-class > A6

No clear winner here. BMW used to be a clear winner back in the E39 era.
I agree with most of this analysis except I think the electronic gadgetry in the GS is better than in the F10. The navigation system and screen are far superior and the gizmos work seamlessly.
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  #62  
Old 06-27-2012, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jammat View Post
I agree with most of this analysis except I think the electronic gadgetry in the GS is better than in the F10. The navigation system and screen are far superior and the gizmos work seamlessly.
Except that you cannot use the navigation system and a lot of the funtions while you are in motion, even the music page up and page down is lock out.
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  #63  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Except that you cannot use the navigation system and a lot of the funtions while you are in motion, even the music page up and page down is lock out.
Not true. You can use the voice activation system for the nav system, and there are buttons on the steering wheel to page up and down with the audio system. It is no inconvenience at all and works great. If you would take a short test drive in this car they will be happy to demonstrate these features for you.
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  #64  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
Not true. You can use the voice activation system for the nav system, and there are buttons on the steering wheel to page up and down with the audio system. It is no inconvenience at all and works great. If you would take a short test drive in this car they will be happy to demonstrate these features for you.
I have test drive the GS350 and have owned a few Lexus in the past including a 08 GS350. Voice commands are great when they work, but when they dont work, its a pain in the arse, and the Lexus voice command does not work as well as Audi's or BMW's. There are times when I am on the highway and want to find a POI or change a distination. The passenger should be able to do this safely without distracting the driver. Maybe the passenger wants to browse for some POI in the area or the destination area. What is Lexus' thinking in preventing the passenger from doing this? There are many disadvantage to the Lexus lock out. If I ever buy another Lexus again, I would not buy the navigation system due to the lock out.
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  #65  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
....the Lexus voice command does not work as well as Audi's or BMW's. There are times when I am on the highway and want to find a POI or change a distination. The passenger should be able to do this safely without distracting the driver. Maybe the passenger wants to browse for some POI in the area or the destination area.....If I ever buy another Lexus again, I would not buy the navigation system due to the lock out.
Not according to my experience. I own a 2013 GS350 and a BMW E60 and the voice command system in the Lexus is vastly superior to that in the BMW. When using the BMW it takes multiple times to get the system to recognize my command, then it disconnects, and I have to start all over. It pretty much sucks. The Lexus system works flawlessly. If you ever buy another Lexus, I doubt you will be able to find one that does not have the nav system. Their 12.3" display is the best in the industry. I recommend another test drive with a knowledgeable salesman that will demonstrate the systems for you.
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  #66  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Prestige: E-class > F10 = GS > A6
Drivetrain: A6 > F10 > GS = E-class
Chassis: GS > A6 > F10 > E-class
Int design: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Ext Design: F10 > E-class = A6 > GS
Electronics gadgets: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Dealership: GS > F10 = E-class > A6
I have to agree with you here. My dad has a dark grey/red Fsport Gs350 and I have a F10 Msport on order now.

Just saw a white Fsport parked on my street and i can't get over how plain/boring the car looks from any angle besides the front. That and also how the suspension looks like its still on shipping blocks. Either way it has potential but needs a lot of work for it to look "complete" like the Msport or Audi S-Line cars. Driving dynamics wise...the GS is a great car aside from that fake intake noise generator it has.

Alan

Last edited by Alan L.; 06-27-2012 at 06:36 AM.
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  #67  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
Not according to my experience. I own a 2013 GS350 and a BMW E60 and the voice command system in the Lexus is vastly superior to that in the BMW. When using the BMW it takes multiple times to get the system to recognize my command, then it disconnects, and I have to start all over. It pretty much sucks. The Lexus system works flawlessly. If you ever buy another Lexus, I doubt you will be able to find one that does not have the nav system. Their 12.3" display is the best in the industry. I recommend another test drive with a knowledgeable salesman that will demonstrate the systems for you.
Well, you already bought the GS350, so your opinion is bias. If I were to consider another Lexus and cannot find one without the Navi, that would be the deal breaker for me, thats how bad that lock out is.
The passenger on a long trip should be able to play with the Navi or browse thru the music without any problems, Lexus obviously does not agree and locks out all the above function from the passenger. One solution is to install a lockout bypass, but it is not available for the new GS yet and even when it is, I am not too crazy about taking apart my dash on my brand new car.
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  #68  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
I have to agree with you here. My dad has a dark grey/red Fsport Gs350 and I have a F10 Msport on order now.

Just saw a white Fsport parked on my street and i can't get over how plain/boring the car looks from any angle besides the front. That and also how the suspension looks like its still on shipping blocks. Either way it has potential but needs a lot of work for it to look "complete" like the Msport or Audi S-Line cars. Driving dynamics wise...the GS is a great car aside from that fake intake noise generator it has.

Alan
I second that, the profile and the rear end on the GS350 is pretty plain, but the front end is overly aggressive. The front end almost look like it belongs on a different car when compare to the profile and the rear end. I also agree that the S-line and the M-sport is style a bit more tastefully than the F-sport. The GS just doesn't look like a executive car to me, it's more befitting to a 20 something year old instead of a middle age professional like myself. I actually the exterior design of the last gen GS better.
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  #69  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:57 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRoz View Post
As a former Lexus owner, GS 350, I can absolutely attest to two completely different driving experiences. Lexus is all about comfort and reliability. After a few years of ownership your car will be comfortable transportation. You will never return to the dealership, except for the occasional recall part, and you will just drive your car.
My new F10 feels completely different. It is a solid engineered sporty and comfortable saloon. Its styling is gorgeous and i have receiverd several compliments since I brought it home. I look forward to driving it all the time. I take it for a ride even when I have nowhere in particular to go. I never did that with my Lexus. I feel like it is the perfect blend of sports car and sedan - the ultimate driving machine.
If you want to have a comfortable reliable ride than buy a Lexus. No car will ever be perfect. If you want something more, you have found it!
I also came from a 2010 GS350. The car served me well as a daily driver, but you are correct in what you say. I have stated before that the reason I stepped up to the 550 is that I recently sold my Z06 Corvette that I took out on the backroads on Sunday mornings. I usually take one of my three motorcycles out on Sunday morning rides as well. I'm planning to take the BMW on one of those runs soon (it includes some winding sections of roads). I would have never done that in the GS.

I do give credit to Lexus for the new car. For me what kept me from considering one is the lack of a 400 hp engine. I also am not enamored with the styling. The car has zero "presence" on the road. I could live with the looks, but it just didn't have enough other compelling advantages to keep me from switching to the BMW and I have zero regrets. On the other hand, I do think that BMW has an awful lot of quirks that are going to drive some people away as other manufacturers get closer in terms of performance and the overall driving experience.
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  #70  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:57 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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The front end almost look like it belongs on a different car
Yes. it looks 98% identical to the CT Hybrid from the front.



I consider myself a car guy and I could spot out what model car, what tires, wheels pretty easily but when i see a CT hybrid coming up i really can't tell if its a GS or not until it drives pass me.

Last edited by Alan L.; 06-27-2012 at 06:59 AM.
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  #71  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammat View Post
I agree with most of this analysis except I think the electronic gadgetry in the GS is better than in the F10. The navigation system and screen are far superior and the gizmos work seamlessly.
The nav and sound system are superior of Lexus are superior to BMW. But, the new idrive is much easier to use imo.
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  #72  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
Not according to my experience. I own a 2013 GS350 and a BMW E60 and the voice command system in the Lexus is vastly superior to that in the BMW. When using the BMW it takes multiple times to get the system to recognize my command, then it disconnects, and I have to start all over. It pretty much sucks. The Lexus system works flawlessly. If you ever buy another Lexus, I doubt you will be able to find one that does not have the nav system. Their 12.3" display is the best in the industry. I recommend another test drive with a knowledgeable salesman that will demonstrate the systems for you.
IMO, the Lexus interface sucks in comparison with my F10. My wife's BFF has had 3 RX's and an ES before that. The mouse control in her RX's is so bad, plus the way the menu screens are presented. I personally can't stand a car where I have to use a screen to control the climate system. Her radio menu is a mess compared with the "perfect" F10 setup where you simply have a list of presets you can easily scroll through, or use the steering wheel control to scroll through. Everyone has their biases, including me. But when people just rave about an inferior interface, well it makes me understand they'll defend their favorite brand to the end. Same with Acura. We have a new TSX with Nav. The interface is horrible on that one as well. Buttons all over the control panel, the control knob in the center of the dash. Constant beeping between functions (even with feedback turned off - do I really need a "beep" to tell me I'm in reverse and the camera came on or went off??). I don't understand all the raves regarding the Acura and Lexus setup. The BMW is clearly the winner here.
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Last edited by markl53; 06-27-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #73  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:19 AM
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In order to make a purchase decision on a table like this it is important to give a weighing factor to each of the features.

I weigh these features as follows;

Chassis: 25%
Drivetrain: 25%
Ext Design: 20%
Int design: 15%
Electronics gadgets: 5%
Dealership: 5%
Prestige: 5%
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  #74  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
I personally can't stand a car where I have to use a screen to control the climate system.
I agree, its such a pain to have to go thru 2 or 3 different screen to just make simply changes in the HVAC system.
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  #75  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:24 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is online now
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Quote:
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I agree, its such a pain to have to go thru 2 or 3 different screen to just make simply changes in the HVAC system.
Huh?
You do not use the little turning knob on the dash, or the regulation underneath the radio???
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