Drove the 2013 Lexus GS350 AWD

Originally Posted by Sophisto

Huh?
You do not use the little turning knob on the dash, or the regulation underneath the radio???

We are talking about the Lexus RX350.

Originally Posted by The X Men

We are talking about the Lexus RX350.

Sorry, I am a little confused, I thought I was on a BMW forum.

Originally Posted by Sophisto

Sorry, I am a little confused, I thought I was on a BMW forum.

Yeah, you can blame the OP for that

Originally Posted by bodonx

Prestige: E-class > F10 = GS > A6
Drivetrain: A6 > F10 > GS = E-class
Chassis: GS > A6 > F10 > E-class
Int design: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Ext Design: F10 > E-class = A6 > GS
Electronics gadgets: F10 = A6 = GS > E-class
Dealership: GS > F10 = E-class > A6

No clear winner here. BMW used to be a clear winner back in the E39 era.

Good analysis, but Audi is much more prestigious than a Lexus

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Good analysis, but Audi is much more prestigious than a Lexus

Depends on how blue your hair is....

I personally can't stand a car where I have to use a screen to control the climate system.

Originally Posted by Sophisto

Huh?
You do not use the little turning knob on the dash, or the regulation underneath the radio???

You'll never convince them!

Markl53/The X Men: I've never used the nav system to control the A/C. The buttons are right in front of you. Once again, you need to take another test drive with a knowledgeable salesman so you will know what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Good analysis, but Audi is much more prestigious than a Lexus

Maybe in other countries, but not in the US.

In Audi Ads, they refer MB, BMW and Lexus as the "old" luxury. I think they meant the top 3 in the US.

The sales show as well. Audi sales is never in the run with the other 3 brands.

Originally Posted by w5lx

You'll never convince them!

Markl53/The X Men: I've never used the nav system to control the A/C. The buttons are right in front of you. Once again, you need to take another test drive with a knowledgeable salesman so you will know what you are talking about.

I haven't taken any test drive, this is how our friend uses hers all the time. She does a lot of manual fiddling with it (I've tried to convince her otherwise, to no avail), and she changes fan speeds and controls the temp via the screen. In any event, I stand by my previous opinion that the mouse interface is inferior to iDrive and more difficult to use in actual operation.

Originally Posted by The X Men

We are talking about the Lexus RX350.

We are?

Originally Posted by Sophisto

In order to make a purchase decision on a table like this it is important to give a weighing factor to each of the features.

I weigh these features as follows;

Chassis: 25%
Drivetrain: 25%
Ext Design: 20%
Int design: 15%
Electronics gadgets: 5%
Dealership: 5%
Prestige: 5%

I almost agree with your pirority. This is mine

Chassis: 25%
Drivetrain: 25%
Int design: 24%
Ext Design: 15%
Dealership: 5%
Prestige: 5%
Electronics gadgets: 1%

Interior is more important to me since we spend more time inside.

I'm old school and hate electronics on a car. This is the main reason that gets F10 in the "mess" (laggy transmission, electric steering, stupid headlight logic, stupid nav, etc)

Originally Posted by bodonx

Maybe in other countries, but not in the US.

In Audi Ads, they refer MB, BMW and Lexus as the "old" luxury. I think they meant the top 3 in the US.

The sales show as well. Audi sales is never in the run with the other 3 brands.

Fair enough, if we're only looking at US numbers.

Audi outsold MB last year and is still this year (worldwide). This is just like Lexus sales elsewhere in the world. The brand is a joke in every continent but North America

I dont have the numbers, but I bet Audi out sell Lexus worldwide by at least 300%.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Fair enough, if we're only looking at US numbers.

Audi outsold MB last year and is still this year (worldwide). This is just like Lexus sales elsewhere in the world. The brand is a joke in every continent but North America

And why is that -- any ideas (Lexus I mean)?

Originally Posted by markl53

And why is that -- any ideas (Lexus I mean)?

Most Europeans are pretty loyal to European cars and they like cars that handles well. The Asian countries and government would like nothing more than to stick it Japan anyway they can to pay back Japan did to them in WW2.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Except that you cannot use the navigation system and a lot of the funtions while you are in motion, even the music page up and page down is lock out.

Now GS owners will have to figure out how to code their cars!

Originally Posted by The X Men

Most Europeans are pretty loyal to European cars and they like cars that handles well. The Asian countries and government would like nothing more than to stick it Japan anyway they can to pay back Japan did to them in WW2.

Even the Asians aren't very local to Asian luxury brands. Audi, BMW, MB have a stronghold in that continent also. Probably because they are significantly more established and have a richer history than Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Good analysis, but Audi is much more prestigious than a Lexus

Depends where you are from. Coming from the United Kingdom, Lexus is more prestigious because they only ever sold the IS, GS and LS there - rear wheel drive cars with 6 cylinder engines. When they introduced the RX, it was the RX450h so again a high end model.

Whereas Audis are normally much less expensive front wheel drive four cylinder cars in the UK market.

Prestige is a function of ASP. It's not obvious whose ASP is higher in the US. Lexus does sell a lot of RX and ES, but they also sell a boat load of LS models. Whereas A4 accounts for a very large share of Audi sales.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Prestige is a function of ASP. It's not obvious whose ASP is higher in the US. Lexus does sell a lot of RX and ES, but they also sell a boat load of LS models. Whereas A4 accounts for a very large share of Audi sales.

Lexus thrives on lower end models. ES, CT, and RX keep them afloat. Lexus says afloat by selling Toyota-based FWD hatchbacks, sedans, and CUVs. Audi's volume (A4 and Q5) are bespoke platforms.

The LS isn't selling well now. Combining the ES and RX, it is a larger percentage than Audi sells A4s.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Fair enough, if we're only looking at US numbers.

Audi outsold MB last year and is still this year (worldwide). This is just like Lexus sales elsewhere in the world. The brand is a joke in every continent but North America

I really don't think Audi and MB sales can be compared. There is a very different mix and a marked difference in pricing.

Law of demand says if you price lower, you sell more.

If Audi sells more A8s at a higher ASP than Mercedes, and a more A6s at a higher ASP than the E-Class, then I would be impressed. But last time I checked they sell less and at lower prices which is hardly a sign of success.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

If Audi sells more A8s at a higher ASP than Mercedes, and a more A6s at a higher ASP than the E-Class, then I would be impressed. But last time I checked they sell less and at lower prices which is hardly a sign of success.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012/...ghest-ranking/

A6/A7 outsell both 5 series and E Class in Germany.

We also have to remember that the F10 isn't the high end luxury car people here boast it is. In Europe, you can get tiny 4 cylinder diesels, cloth seats, etc.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012/...ghest-ranking/

A6/A7 outsell both 5 series and E Class in Germany.

We also have to remember that the F10 isn't the high end luxury car people here boast it is. In Europe, you can get tiny 4 cylinder diesels, cloth seats, etc.

Germany isn't really a good example for the very reason you describe. It's telling you have to pick one European country instead of the global auto market to illustrate this point.

Oy. Another Lexus vs. BMW thread.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Germany isn't really a good example for the very reason you describe. It's telling you have to pick one European country instead of the global auto market to illustrate this point.

A6 is the #1 selling midsize luxury sport sedan worldwide.

From Edmunds.com:

The company's global success over the past decade has been driven by design. It's what's propelled Audi's emergence as a genuine, premium alternative to BMW or Mercedes and helped establish the A6 as the world's best-selling executive sedan.

http://www.insideline.com/audi/a6/20...rst-drive.html

Idk what new BMWs drive like but no Lexus feels like my 9 yr old BMW.

Sent from my PG86100 using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Germany isn't really a good example for the very reason you describe. It's telling you have to pick one European country instead of the global auto market to illustrate this point.

lol this +1. Lol Audi is just now trying to catch the 550i, and Lexus... Well they can't even pass the 335i with the gs Pretty sure that's what winning looks like

I also don't think anyone who has owned a f10 thinks it's a Type 57S or Phantom.