F10 Reliability? Next F10 Body Style Update?

As many of you know, I am about to purchase a 2013 528i. I have two quick questions before I buy it:

• Being that I am going to be buying a 2013, which is the third year of production of the F10 body style, should I be concerned that BMW is going to be doing a significant body style refresh in 2014? Doesn't BMW do a complete body style change every six years (2017), but BMW also does a small body change every three years?

• Reliability - I have never owned a BMW before, and I am used to the reliability of my Toyota. Upon reviewing the most recent Consumer Reports, the 2012 535i car was panned big time on the reliability scale (Consumer Reports literally gave this car the worst reliability ratings possible). What is the story with that? Since I am going to be buying, are my hopes of keeping the car for any significant length of time one big pipe dream?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

Being that I am going to be buying a 2013, which is the third year of production of the F10 body style, should I be concerned that BMW is going to be doing a significant body style refresh in 2014? Doesn't BMW do a complete body style change every six years (2017), but BMW also does a small body change every three years?

Chassis overhaul happens every 7 years (E39 1997 - 2003, E60 2004 - 2010, F10 2011 - 2017). LCI (Life Cycle Impulse) occurs around the last 2-3 years of the chassis cycle, so look for a refresh of the F10 around 2015.

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

Reliability - I have never owned a BMW before, and I am used to the reliability of my Toyota. Upon reviewing the most recent Consumer Reports, the 2012 535i car was panned big time on the reliability scale (Consumer Reports literally gave this car the worst reliability ratings possible). What is the story with that?

FWIW, we've had our F10 for 11 months, and put about 8,000 miles on it. Zero reliability problems with it, so far. YMMV, but we're 100% satisfied with the reliability aspects of it (but don't get me started on the entertainment/music system, or the nav).

Do not worry, get the car and enjoy it, a LCI coming out in over 18 months is not worth waiting for.
I drove almost 40k miles with one of the first production F11 cars.
Nothing to report so far.

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

• Reliability - I have never owned a BMW before, and I am used to the reliability of my Toyota. Upon reviewing the most recent Consumer Reports, the 2012 535i car was panned big time on the reliability scale (Consumer Reports literally gave this car the worst reliability ratings possible). What is the story with that? Since I am going to be buying, are my hopes of keeping the car for any significant length of time one big pipe dream?

Thanks!

You must be driving what CU wants you to drive.

If you want a BMW its for more fun, not more reliability!

That said I've logged 18,000 trouble free miles in two years with my F10. Wife has 3 1/2 years and 40,000 trouble free miles on her 2009 328i so I think it probably has more to do with how you drive.

You will know the name of your BMW service adviser, probably have forgotten the address of your Toyota dealer.

Also you should be heads up that you are buying the first year of the 4 cyl 528i with new stop / start technology.

Just buy it. LCI isn't worth worrying about at this point. You're already getting the new gauges and the nav.

Also, don't worry about the reliability. They've worked the bugs out by now.

My F10 purchased in 2010 has been problem free. It is a great car.

Anecdotally speaking, I have not had issues with the reliability of my 535i X-drive, contrary to what has been cited in Consumer Reports. I have amassed just under 10k trouble-free miles with my 12/10 build, delivered in January 2011. I replaced one tire (18" Conti's) due to an embedded nail. Last month, my vehicle's a/c required a charge. That's it. This has been the finest vehicle I've owned to date which has included two BMWs (current 535ix and my wife's 335ix Coupe), and two Audis (A6 and A4), among others. I look forward to several more years of satisfaction.

Your pending purchase pertains to a 528i, which is now outfitted with the N20 engine that recently garnered BMW one of four engine of the year awards. I've attached a Motor Trend review of your intended purchase or lease which, as you'll see, is quite favorable. As noted, your driving habits and style, as well as overall care, will contribute significantly to your ownership or lease experience. The MT link is configured for a mobile device, as I am writing this on a mobile device.

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/se...ive/index.html

As other's have said, buy the car. You should be fine. I really don't see any big changes the next few years.

Originally Posted by laser

Also you should be heads up that you are buying the first year of the 4 cyl 528i with new stop / start technology.

I thought that the 2012 was the first year with the 4 cyl 528i with the new stop/start technology? I am buying a 2013.

Also, when do we think that the LCI will be for the F10? 2015?

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

Also, when do we think that the LCI will be for the F10? 2015?

Asked and answered (Post #2)

I have a 2012 550i (with a stick!) and have logged >7,000 miles so far. I am fairly demanding and am happy to report that the car is flawless - zero issues of any kind. I, too, was a bit aprehensive about quality/reliability and am extremely happy.

John S.

The LCI F10 will drop as a 2014 model sometime around Sept-Oct of 2013. It will most likely consist of minor headlight, bumper changes and not a entirely new refresh. Not worth waiting for if you need a car now. The 2013 is already getting some updates as you already know.

Alan

I've logged 55k and not a problem.

Originally Posted by Alan L.

The LCI F10 will drop as a 2014 model sometime around Sept-Oct of 2013. It will most likely consist of minor headlight, bumper changes and not a entirely new refresh. Not worth waiting for if you need a car now. The 2013 is already getting some updates as you already know.

Alan

Why do some people think that the LCI will be MY 2014 and some think it will be MY 2015?

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

Why do some people think that the LCI will be MY 2014 and some think it will be MY 2015?

Because noone knows. The 5-series production cycle has varied between I think 6 and 9 years. The lci can pretty much come anytime but normally it's close to the middle with a bias towards later than sooner. The F10s first model year is 2011. Add the average mid production cycle of 4 and you get 2015 with realease in 2014. My guess is 2015 MY or 2016MY if sales keep going strong. If there is a significant threat from a competitor or falling sales number it could come quicker.

I too have been lurking here to see any reliability data. Seems like the hpfp issue has really subsided unless someone can correct me on this.

The main reason we got a Merc two years ago when our E60 was bought back was our fear of the new N55 engine being in it's first year.

Wife just got an X5, same engine as the 5, so see how that holds up.

I bought my 2012 550xi M Sport in Feb. So far 7k flawless, trouble free miles.

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

Why do some people think that the LCI will be MY 2014 and some think it will be MY 2015?

SCOTT26 posted on the other forum that the lci will debut in 12 months so that means 2014 MY.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708189

If you don't know who he is he seems to have all he inside information about BMW and has always been right from my knowledge.

Alan

As for reliability, True Delta rates it pretty good. No problem w/ mine at 21k

I think you shouldn't worry about the facelift (LCI) or a new bodystyle coming out for years.

As for reliability, it's true, these cars are very very reliable, they are well built. On top of that, you have the piece of mind of not picking up a single invoice (even for oil changes, brake disks/rotors, wiper inserts). The service advisers are typically very knowledgeable and the techs in the shop are amazing. Having said all that, if you search the forum, you'll notice that a lot of us purists and loyal BMW drivers are not exactly blown away by the new steering system (still hydraulic on X-drive models and heavier and more precise with sport package) and there is a significant issue with throttle tip-in delay (see here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=617154).

I'd recommend buying a car with all the perks you like, but make sure you get:
1) Sport Package
2) Sport Auto OR 6 Speed Manual (i'd do manual)
3) to avoid the stupid electric steering on the RWD cars, I'd force myself to buy the X-drive

All in all, though, it's a completely different experience to buy a BMW. You have a bunch of lunatics like us always cruising forums and helping people out, we've made a lot of progress on coding to help customize people's rides and the cars are still top notch performers.

Good luck!

F10 came to north America in 2011. LCD will be 2014 model year at the earliest

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

• Reliability - I have never owned a BMW before, and I am used to the reliability of my Toyota. Upon reviewing the most recent Consumer Reports, the 2012 535i car was panned big time on the reliability scale (Consumer Reports literally gave this car the worst reliability ratings possible). What is the story with that? Since I am going to be buying, are my hopes of keeping the car for any significant length of time one big pipe dream?

Thanks!

First off, as a long time Japanese car owner you buy a BMW because you wan't something that's great to drive and looks awesome, and not for maximum reliability. If you want to own a luxury car for a very long time and want to keep issues to a minimum then maybe Lexus would be a better fit? They just came out with a new GS model...

I looked up Consumer Reports and the first of the two biggest areas are fuel system (infamous high pressure fuel pump issues). Judging by the complete lack of discussion on this issue anymore on the forums, I'd say that BMW has at long last resolved this and that it's not a concern anymore. Used to be that you'd see a couple of reports of HPFP failures per page on the forums, but not anymore.

Next biggest issue are batteries. Hate to say it but ALL CARS are chewing through batteries these days. Problem is the massive current demands of the electrical power steering systems they're putting in cars. The system in my 2007 RAV4 was fused at 600W , and yes it did manage to finally nuke a battery without warning and leave me stranded, and even after jumping it it still couldn't be driven due to a design flaw. Need to replace the battery in that car as preventative maintenance at least every 2-3 years. They really seriously need to ditch 12V electrical systems and go up to at least 24V but preferably 48V. Dunno what they're waiting for. On BMWs, the battery is usually buried in the trunk and is super expensive to replace, which is why it's getting dinged more in CR I guess. I dinged my RAV4 for that when I did the survey because of the fact that it left me stranded, but fortunately it was in my driveway when it happend.

Traditionally most of what goes wrong on BMWs are relating to optional features that you're not required to equip the car with. Fancy 20 speaker stereo systems, radar cruise control, comfort access when it was new on the E60 had lots of problems and complaints too but they seem to have perfected it now. The core vehicle is basically reliable, and there's definitely cars out there that are a whole lot worse than the F10 is for sure. A friend of mine is considering a Chrysler Town & Country. I sent them a screen capture of the CR reliability ratings for that with pretty much a solid wall of black dots and they're no longer considering it.

Looking back even further to the previous E60, I see that even those cars are starting to have radiator problems. Guess what? In order to maintain that magical 50/50 weight distribution that makes these cars drive and turn so well, they have to keep the weight off of the front end, and that means making a radiator out of lighter weight and potentially less durable material that won't last 10 years. Although BMWs at their core are basically reliable vehicles these days, when needed, BMW is still fully willing to compromise on reliability in order to make the car drive and handle better to their standards (like using lightweight radiators that aren't as durable), whereas Lexus doesn't/won't make compromises like that. But Lexus vehicles don't drive or handle as well as BMWs, so take your pick on what you want. You can't have everything. Which matters most to you? Going blasting around a corner with the magic of a perfectly balanced car and the grin it will put on your face, or having something that's the most reliable it could possibly be but won't corner like it's on rails.

Loving my BMW!

BTW, if you don't need a car right now I'd probably try to wait for the LCI... The styling of the F10 just hasn't done it for me, and the steering has felt way too numb. Car just doesn't "speak" to me like my E93 does. Even the E70 X5 we've got on order felt better to drive than the F10. A lot has to do with the completely numb electric steering on the new cars. You just don't feel connected to the road. Even my co-worker who picked up an E93 like mine has said the car makes it feel like you can "do things" on the road that you can't do in other cars. Yes, because you're so well connected to the road with good steering feel and feedback, and such precise responses from the car! I can't feel anything in the F10 so it feels like I'm just along for the ride. I'm hoping they make some improvements to the LCI F10. I did drive the new F30 328i at the BMW Team USA drive and it didn't feel as numb and isolated as the F10, but I only drove it a few miles... CR has said the steering in the F30 is a lot better than the F10. Hoping whatever tweaks they made in the F30 will find its way to the F10 for the LCI...

Originally Posted by ditrasetman

As many of you know, I am about to purchase a 2013 528i. I have two quick questions before I buy it:

• Being that I am going to be buying a 2013, which is the third year of production of the F10 body style, should I be concerned that BMW is going to be doing a significant body style refresh in 2014? Doesn't BMW do a complete body style change every six years (2017), but BMW also does a small body change every three years?

• Reliability - I have never owned a BMW before, and I am used to the reliability of my Toyota. Upon reviewing the most recent Consumer Reports, the 2012 535i car was panned big time on the reliability scale (Consumer Reports literally gave this car the worst reliability ratings possible). What is the story with that? Since I am going to be buying, are my hopes of keeping the car for any significant length of time one big pipe dream?

Thanks!

Proper BMW have 6 cylinder engines

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

BTW, if you don't need a car right now I'd probably try to wait for the LCI... The styling of the F10 just hasn't done it for me, and the steering has felt way too numb. Car just doesn't "speak" to me like my E93 does. Even the E70 X5 we've got on order felt better to drive than the F10. A lot has to do with the completely numb electric steering on the new cars. You just don't feel connected to the road. Even my co-worker who picked up an E93 like mine has said the car makes it feel like you can "do things" on the road that you can't do in other cars. Yes, because you're so well connected to the road with good steering feel and feedback, and such precise responses from the car! I can't feel anything in the F10 so it feels like I'm just along for the ride. I'm hoping they make some improvements to the LCI F10. I did drive the new F30 328i at the BMW Team USA drive and it didn't feel as numb and isolated as the F10, but I only drove it a few miles... CR has said the steering in the F30 is a lot better than the F10. Hoping whatever tweaks they made in the F30 will find its way to the F10 for the LCI...

What a load of BS this comment.
The F10 is steering fine, there is absolutely no reason to think it will be changed, there is simply no demand for that.
All this talk of being numb an isolated is simply not true.
The car drives fine, steers very sharp for a big and fully loaded sports luxury saloon and is completely stable up to 155 mph.
I have done over half a million miles in 5 series cars the last decade.
This car is better, in all aspects, than the former designs.