Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > European Delivery > The Travel Forum

The Travel Forum
Planning a trip or have a great travel story? Need travel tips or want to share your experiences (and photos)? Whether you are travelling for business or pleasure, the Bimmerfest Travel Forum is your best resource on the Web.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 07-29-2012, 08:36 AM
Loganradio Loganradio is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA & NV
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 139
Mein Auto: 2010 Sportwagon
Just called Citi to ask about swapping my card for their Global Chip one. Same account...does have 3% fee, but always did. Will arrive by mid-August. Also in application process with SDFCU. Had to become member of American Consumer Council first, $15 lifetime membership, plus apply for membership and deposit $100 at State Dept FCU. Got Citi anyway because it was easy...good backup...although it is chip/sign.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-29-2012, 09:32 AM
achopra achopra is offline
Registered User
Location: Baltimore, MD
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 91
Mein Auto: 2013 335i MSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loganradio View Post
Just called Citi to ask about swapping my card for their Global Chip one. Same account...does have 3% fee, but always did. Will arrive by mid-August. Also in application process with SDFCU. Had to become member of American Consumer Council first, $15 lifetime membership, plus apply for membership and deposit $100 at State Dept FCU. Got Citi anyway because it was easy...good backup...although it is chip/sign.
I have the option to get the Global Chip card online, through 'Order a Replacement' page. Getting one now.

EDIT: They sent me the normal cards even though I selected the Global Chip option. I had to call. The agent did not know about it and almost sent me a paypass. I had to escalate to the account manager and she hooked me up. I hope I get the correct cards this time.

Last edited by achopra; 08-02-2012 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:16 AM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiac09 View Post
Never had a problem at an automated tollbooth in Austria or Italy with my AMEX. If you're going to France, you can buy a "Télépéage" or basically a French EZ-Pass before you go. You'll be glad you did, since the traffic at the frequent tollbooths is frequently awful.

Only U/S Bahn ticket readers gave me a problem, and that was a 50/50 success rate. The biggest problem I had were merchants who insisted that they had to stick it in the reader, and had no clue their machines were capable to swipe.
France is the problem, both motorways and train stations. I've had similar problems in Japan and China.

I like the idea of Telepeage, how do you get one if you're overseas?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:01 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Anaheim Hills
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Send a message via AIM to MonkeyCMonkeyDo
Mein Auto: 2013 335i
The problem with the Citibank ones is that they are Chip and Signature only and will not work at unattended gas stations for example. There is no option for the PIN.

If anybody else has the Virgin-Atlantic BofA American Express card and does not have a chip on their card, just call Customer Service and request a replacement card. The replacement will be Chip and Signature automatically.

If you are looking for a true Chip and Pin US card I recommend the US Bank Flex Rewards Travel Rewards Visa. If you sign up you get a ton of bonus points and rewards work on basically every airline and are simply cash values towards tickets so you are not stuck with black-outs and sell outs. They are also a true chip-pin/chip-sig/magnetic stripe card so it can be used anywhere in the world! Annual fee is waived year one and $49 after that. Definitely worth it if you travel.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:34 AM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
If you are looking for a true Chip and Pin US card I recommend the US Bank Flex Rewards Travel Rewards Visa. If you sign up you get a ton of bonus points and rewards work on basically every airline and are simply cash values towards tickets so you are not stuck with black-outs and sell outs. They are also a true chip-pin/chip-sig/magnetic stripe card so it can be used anywhere in the world! Annual fee is waived year one and $49 after that. Definitely worth it if you travel.
Unless something has changed in the past couple of months the US Bank Flexperks card (which I have) is NOT chip & PIN!! It is chip & signature.

As others here have posted, the Flyertalk thread and associated google doc is a great resource for anyone interested in this topic.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:44 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Anaheim Hills
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Send a message via AIM to MonkeyCMonkeyDo
Mein Auto: 2013 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Unless something has changed in the past couple of months the US Bank Flexperks card (which I have) is NOT chip & PIN!! It is chip & signature.

As others here have posted, the Flyertalk thread and associated google doc is a great resource for anyone interested in this topic.
I was told that you simply need to call the customer service line and you can have a pin connected to the account to allow for Chip and Pin in addition to the standard chip/sig.

I will let you know in 7 days when my card gets here...or you can try and let me know now
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:48 AM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
I was told that you simply need to call the customer service line and you can have a pin connected to the account to allow for Chip and Pin in addition to the standard chip/sig.

I will let you know in 7 days when my card gets here...or you can try and let me know now
Interesting. I will give them a call and let you know. The last time I asked them (~2 months ago) they admitted it was chip & sig only. You can enable a PIN for ATM withdrawals, just like most credit cards. Will let you know what I find.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-30-2012, 01:17 PM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
I was told that you simply need to call the customer service line and you can have a pin connected to the account to allow for Chip and Pin in addition to the standard chip/sig.

I will let you know in 7 days when my card gets here...or you can try and let me know now
Well they just told me the same they told you - a PIN is being sent & I should be able to give it a shot in about 3 weeks on my next trip. If it really is chip & pin that would be outstanding since this is already my primary card. Thanks for the heads-up!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-30-2012, 02:15 PM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Anaheim Hills
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Send a message via AIM to MonkeyCMonkeyDo
Mein Auto: 2013 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Well they just told me the same they told you - a PIN is being sent & I should be able to give it a shot in about 3 weeks on my next trip. If it really is chip & pin that would be outstanding since this is already my primary card. Thanks for the heads-up!
GREAT NEWS!!!

I will cross my fingers.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-07-2012, 05:34 AM
mgthompson's Avatar
mgthompson mgthompson is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New England, USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 719
Mein Auto: M-Sport128i 328xiT 3.0CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Others (like Chase, US Bank Flexperks, JP Morgan Signature, etc. are chip & sign).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Unless something has changed in the past couple of months the US Bank Flexperks card (which I have) is NOT chip & PIN!! It is chip & signature.
I just received a US Bank "Global" VISA card that is both chip & PIN and chip & sign.
__________________
'09 128i - Black Sapphire Metallic\Coral Red\Glacier Silver\N51 DISA\6MT\Navigation\Premium\M-Sport\Heated seats\Xenon Headlights\iPod\Smartphone

Last edited by mgthompson; 08-07-2012 at 05:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-06-2012, 05:21 AM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
I was told that you simply need to call the customer service line and you can have a pin connected to the account to allow for Chip and Pin in addition to the standard chip/sig.

I will let you know in 7 days when my card gets here...or you can try and let me know now
Unfortunately, it didn't work. I called and specifically asked for a PIN to use the card for chip & pin transactions. The PIN they sent was the same I had set years ago for ATM cash withdrawals, so I was skeptical right away. I used the card for a couple of different transactions in Germany and Canada and in every case it behaved like a chip & signature. I also tried my shiny new Andrews FCU card and it worked as chip & pin.

It appears the US Bank card remains chip & signature only.

Did you have a chance to try it?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:09 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Anaheim Hills
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Send a message via AIM to MonkeyCMonkeyDo
Mein Auto: 2013 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Unfortunately, it didn't work. I called and specifically asked for a PIN to use the card for chip & pin transactions. The PIN they sent was the same I had set years ago for ATM cash withdrawals, so I was skeptical right away. I used the card for a couple of different transactions in Germany and Canada and in every case it behaved like a chip & signature. I also tried my shiny new Andrews FCU card and it worked as chip & pin.

It appears the US Bank card remains chip & signature only.

Did you have a chance to try it?
3 weeks from now
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:56 AM
Popoemt's Avatar
Popoemt Popoemt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,958
Mein Auto: 2013 740 Li
Just found this online

EMV push in the US
This year, some U.S. issuers tried to mitigate that annoyance for overseas travelers. Here is a list of credit card issuers that have recently introduced EMV-enabled cards:
U.S. Bank's FlexPerks Travel Rewards Visa credit card.
Citi's Corporate Chip and PIN credit card.
Chase's J.P. Morgan Select Visa Signature credit card.
Chase's J.P. Morgan Palladium credit card.
Wells Fargo's Visa Smart Card (credit card pilot program).
North Carolina-based State Employees' Credit Union EMV debit cards.
The United Nations Federal Credit Union chip and PIN credit cards.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-cre...070057254.html

V/r, Tim.
__________________

2013 740 Li
2007 G35 (trade-in)
2003 Z06 (Black, 50th Anniversary)
2001 Z06 (Torch Red)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:37 PM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Anaheim Hills
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Send a message via AIM to MonkeyCMonkeyDo
Mein Auto: 2013 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Unfortunately, it didn't work. I called and specifically asked for a PIN to use the card for chip & pin transactions. The PIN they sent was the same I had set years ago for ATM cash withdrawals, so I was skeptical right away. I used the card for a couple of different transactions in Germany and Canada and in every case it behaved like a chip & signature. I also tried my shiny new Andrews FCU card and it worked as chip & pin.

It appears the US Bank card remains chip & signature only.

Did you have a chance to try it?
Indeed it is chip and sig only. Shame on the first people giving us incorrect information. From the brochure included with the cards its states: I dont have a pin for my FlexPerks Visa Card. Do I need one? You need a pin only for cash withdrawals at ATMS.

That stinks.

I guess Travelex Chip and Pin it is. I lose about 50 bucks on a 500 dollar card, but hey at least I wont get stranded in France.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:52 AM
640GC's Avatar
640GC 640GC is offline
(aharding)ED #1 Sept 2012
Location: Lubbock, TX & Oahu, HI
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 451
Mein Auto: BMW GC & MB SL500
We just got back from a trip through Germany-Italy-France and here's what happened using our British Airways Chip card.

It did not work at any unattended gas station we tried.

It worked fine at gas stations during the day with attendants, worked fine at all toll booths, worked fine with merchants allowing us to type in our PIN number.

At attended stations, you fill up first and then go in and pay. We never got below a half a tank of gas so it wasn't an issue at night when the card wouldn't work at the unattended stations.
__________________

2013 F06 640i Gran Coupe Carbon Black | M Sport Package | Amaro Brown Merino Leather | Fine Line Oak Wood Trim | Driver Assistance Package | Luxury Seating Package | Bang & Olufsen | Ceramic Controls | BMW Apps | Full LED Lighting
ED Trip Report - September 2012
Post your Neuschwanstein Castle photo here
Hawaii Vacation Rentals
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:06 AM
Andrew*Debbie's Avatar
Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
resU deretsigeR
Location: Anglesey
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,252
Mein Auto: Leaf Tekna
Chip and Signature cards are supposed to work at all UK locations where there is a human present.
Banks in the UK are required to provide a chip a signature card to anyone unable to enter a PIN number. (Visual impairment, mobility problems...) Retailers are obliged to accept the cards. There is an exception for self service terminals.

In practice some cashiers don't know what to do, since the chip and signatures cards are uncommon.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18886528
__________________
The models and equipment (standard and optional) illustrated in this post reflect my misunderstanding of vehicles supplied by BMW AG to the German market. In other EU member states, the truthyness of my posts may vary. Please ignore this post. Subject to change.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 09-20-2012 at 08:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:19 AM
cheezypoof cheezypoof is offline
Registered User
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
Indeed it is chip and sig only. Shame on the first people giving us incorrect information. From the brochure included with the cards its states: I dont have a pin for my FlexPerks Visa Card. Do I need one? You need a pin only for cash withdrawals at ATMS.

That stinks.

I guess Travelex Chip and Pin it is. I lose about 50 bucks on a 500 dollar card, but hey at least I wont get stranded in France.
Bummer. At least we really know what this card is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aharding View Post
We just got back from a trip through Germany-Italy-France and here's what happened using our British Airways Chip card.

It did not work at any unattended gas station we tried.

It worked fine at gas stations during the day with attendants, worked fine at all toll booths, worked fine with merchants allowing us to type in our PIN number.

At attended stations, you fill up first and then go in and pay. We never got below a half a tank of gas so it wasn't an issue at night when the card wouldn't work at the unattended stations.
Over in the flyertalk forums people have said that unattended gas stations will only accept cards issued by banks from that country (they were specifically talking about France, not sure about others). That may have been the problem since the BA card is true chip & pin, right?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:42 AM
640GC's Avatar
640GC 640GC is offline
(aharding)ED #1 Sept 2012
Location: Lubbock, TX & Oahu, HI
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 451
Mein Auto: BMW GC & MB SL500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Bummer. At least we really know what this card is now.

Over in the flyertalk forums people have said that unattended gas stations will only accept cards issued by banks from that country (they were specifically talking about France, not sure about others). That may have been the problem since the BA card is true chip & pin, right?
I think it is PIN but there has been some Flyertalk/Bimmerfest suggestions that it is not.

At some retailers, they would have me enter my PIN # and then the transaction would go through. At other retailers, they would insert the card into the Chip reader, but a receipt would print out which they would have me sign.

Good to know about the gas stations not working unless the card is issued in the same country. I tried in St. Moritz and Milan at night and it did not work. Worked fine during the day in all countries with attended stations using their chip reader vs. swipe reader.
__________________

2013 F06 640i Gran Coupe Carbon Black | M Sport Package | Amaro Brown Merino Leather | Fine Line Oak Wood Trim | Driver Assistance Package | Luxury Seating Package | Bang & Olufsen | Ceramic Controls | BMW Apps | Full LED Lighting
ED Trip Report - September 2012
Post your Neuschwanstein Castle photo here
Hawaii Vacation Rentals
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:37 PM
X3 Skier's Avatar
X3 Skier X3 Skier is offline
Powder Days
Location: Ohio and Colorado
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Mein Auto: 2005 X3 2.5i (ED 2004)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Bummer. At least we really know what this card is now.



Over in the flyertalk forums people have said that unattended gas stations will only accept cards issued by banks from that country (they were specifically talking about France, not sure about others). That may have been the problem since the BA card is true chip & pin, right?
BA Card is a chip and signature. Any PIN you get is for cash from an ATM.

The CS reps at any bank in the USA generally have zero clue what a true Chip and PIN is so they keep confusing the issue.

Cheers
__________________
Just Some Consultant

"I never understood the dread term "terminal illness" until I saw Heathrow for myself." Dennis Hopper
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:01 AM
dthompson dthompson is offline
Registered User
Location: Minnesota
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mein Auto: 128i Cp, 1st year Boxster
I am living in France for a short time now, and most establishments here (restaurants, grocery stores, hotels, person stocked gas stations) have dual machines, one with the slot to insert for Chip & Pin, and another to slide the card through for the stripe. The restaurants have portable wireless ones that are pretty cool - they bring the set out to your table to pay. I tried my US Bank Chip card at a automated gas station once, and it did not work. Wouldn't even let me try to enter its pin.

Let me know if you have other questions.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:04 AM
JSpira's Avatar
JSpira JSpira is offline
Freude am Fahren
Location: New York, München, Wien
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 19,572
Mein Auto: Fünfer und Dreier
The primer I wrote about EMV/smart chip cards recently should be helpful in filling in some of the gaps...

Smarter Credit Cards Coming Soon: An EMV Primer
Quote:
As cash becomes passé, new secure chip cards are taking its place and lowering credit card fraud. Here's what you need to know.
If you've ever tried to pay for fuel at a closed filling station or transit an unmanned toll booth in Europe and found that your credit card would not work, you are not alone – but you are probably a U.S. resident with a U.S.-issued credit card that …..
[/quote]
__________________
Freude am Fahren.
-Jonathan





F10 2014 535d M Sport Mondstein Metallic
F10 2012 ActiveHybrid 5 Azuritschwarz Metallic
MB 2011 E350 BlueTec
E70 2011 X5 xDrive35d*
E90 2010 335d*
E60 2008 550i*

E90 2006 330xi*
E90 2006 325i
E90 2006 330xi*
E39 2003 530i*
E46 2000 328Ci*
E36 1996 328iS*
E36 1992 325i*
E30 1991 318is*
E21 1982 320iS*
E21 1979 320 (6-Zyl)*
*retired

Last edited by JSpira; 09-23-2012 at 10:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-25-2012, 04:54 AM
NCBIMMERGUY NCBIMMERGUY is offline
Registered User
Location: raleigh
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Mein Auto: 2007 X3, 2006 330cic
I just got back from European Delivery and had a Chase JP Morgan Chip and Signature Credit card and a local NC credit union Chip and Pin Debit Card with me and would recommend having one or both. It worked everywere accept in a gas station in France. Since it was a station with an attendant, I just had them read my chip card inside and it worked well. All merchants that accept credit cards seem to have the devices that read the chips and it is so much easier.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:37 AM
Andrew*Debbie's Avatar
Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
resU deretsigeR
Location: Anglesey
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,252
Mein Auto: Leaf Tekna
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezypoof View Post
Over in the flyertalk forums people have said that unattended gas stations will only accept cards issued by banks from that country (they were specifically talking about France, not sure about others). That may have been the problem since the BA card is true chip & pin, right?

My UK chip and pin Visa Debit card mostly works in France and Belgium. I do have to tell my bank in advance to unblock foreign transactions.

I've read that UK pre-paid cards don't always work.


It might have something to do with the pre-autherization.
__________________
The models and equipment (standard and optional) illustrated in this post reflect my misunderstanding of vehicles supplied by BMW AG to the German market. In other EU member states, the truthyness of my posts may vary. Please ignore this post. Subject to change.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 09-25-2012 at 05:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:02 PM
mgthompson's Avatar
mgthompson mgthompson is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New England, USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 719
Mein Auto: M-Sport128i 328xiT 3.0CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgthompson View Post
I just received a US Bank "Global" VISA card that is both chip & PIN and chip & sign.
The chip and sign works OK. I haven't tried the chip and PIN yet.
__________________
'09 128i - Black Sapphire Metallic\Coral Red\Glacier Silver\N51 DISA\6MT\Navigation\Premium\M-Sport\Heated seats\Xenon Headlights\iPod\Smartphone
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:13 PM
JSpira's Avatar
JSpira JSpira is offline
Freude am Fahren
Location: New York, München, Wien
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 19,572
Mein Auto: Fünfer und Dreier
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgthompson View Post
The chip and sign works OK. I haven't tried the chip and PIN yet.
Are you sure it's both? It was my understanding that, in terms of standards, it could be one or the other.
__________________
Freude am Fahren.
-Jonathan





F10 2014 535d M Sport Mondstein Metallic
F10 2012 ActiveHybrid 5 Azuritschwarz Metallic
MB 2011 E350 BlueTec
E70 2011 X5 xDrive35d*
E90 2010 335d*
E60 2008 550i*

E90 2006 330xi*
E90 2006 325i
E90 2006 330xi*
E39 2003 530i*
E46 2000 328Ci*
E36 1996 328iS*
E36 1992 325i*
E30 1991 318is*
E21 1982 320iS*
E21 1979 320 (6-Zyl)*
*retired
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > European Delivery > The Travel Forum
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms