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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:55 PM
sekitori sekitori is offline
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Consumer Reports--328i vs. Mercedes Benz C250

This is a quote in today's Los Angeles Times from a Consumer Reports article comparing the 328i with the Mercedes C250. The Times article is primarily concerned with the Scion iQ subcompact which received one of the lowest CU scores in recent history. For what it's worth (which may not be very much), this is their 328i vs. C250 comparison:

>Consumer Reports also did a face-off between two popular sport sedans: The BMW 3 series and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class.

>The BMW 328i beat the Mercedes C250 by only one point in CR's road test: 86 to 85.

>The 328i is quicker, handles better and is more fun to drive, although its steering is less communicative than in the previous model. And CR recorded an impressive 28 mpg overall, easily the best fuel economy in the class. But the C250 is quieter and provides a more refined powertrain and simpler controls. Each car provides taut, agile handling, with little body lean and high cornering limits," the magazine said.

>Both are improved over the previous models Consumer Reports tested, but they still score below the Infiniti G37 in this category, according to the magazine.

They rated the 2011 328i at 76 so that's a big improvement. I have no idea what a "more refined powertrain" is and I doubt very much that the Infiniti G37 is a better car than either the 328i or the C250. CU gave it a rating of 95 and since they rated the 135i at an almost perfect 97, I guess anything is possible.

Last edited by sekitori; 06-27-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:58 PM
markdo markdo is offline
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Consumers Report is best left to evaluating washing machines
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  #3  
Old 06-28-2012, 05:44 AM
jmsent jmsent is offline
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Consumers Report is best left to evaluating washing machines
That's an insult to washing machines.
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  #4  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:17 AM
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Merc. is a looker. F30 has an ugly face. Subjective of course.
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  #5  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:22 AM
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Consumers Report is best left to evaluating washing machines
LOL, the absolute worst washing machine we ever bought carried CR's highest rating. True Story!
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  #6  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:48 AM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekitori View Post
This is a quote in today's Los Angeles Times from a Consumer Reports article comparing the 328i with the Mercedes C250. The Times article is primarily concerned with the Scion iQ subcompact which received one of the lowest CU scores in recent history. For what it's worth (which may not be very much), this is their 328i vs. C250 comparison:

>Consumer Reports also did a face-off between two popular sport sedans: The BMW 3 series and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class.

>The BMW 328i beat the Mercedes C250 by only one point in CR's road test: 86 to 85.

>The 328i is quicker, handles better and is more fun to drive, although its steering is less communicative than in the previous model. And CR recorded an impressive 28 mpg overall, easily the best fuel economy in the class. But the C250 is quieter and provides a more refined powertrain and simpler controls. Each car provides taut, agile handling, with little body lean and high cornering limits," the magazine said.

>Both are improved over the previous models Consumer Reports tested, but they still score below the Infiniti G37 in this category, according to the magazine.

They rated the 2011 328i at 76 so that's a big improvement. I have no idea what a "more refined powertrain" is and I doubt very much that the Infiniti G37 is a better car than either the 328i or the C250. CU gave it a rating of 95 and since they rated the 135i at an almost perfect 97, I guess anything is possible.
Since I was down between these two car before I bought my F30 I can say that Consumer's Reports are some of the worst raters of cars...EVER!!

Examples: The BMW is quicker, handles better and is more fun to drive (plus gets better MPG) but is only rated one point higher??? Dumb

The Merc has simpler controls? Really? Every review but this one has commented on how COMAND is not very good and that the newest IDrive is quite good.

More refined powertrain? Really. If much more turbo lag, less power, less efficiency, and a transmission that has a sizable delay when shifting is more refined....then I agree.

It's also annoying that the highly rated G37 gets very poor MPG in comparison, is smaller inside, noiser, rides harsher, and has a small trunk with a weird shaped opening. I guess those thing don't matter to CR.
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  #7  
Old 06-28-2012, 09:38 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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reliability is a huge factor to CR.

Infinitis are generally speaking, very reliable, much more so than BMW, Merc and Audi which consistently rank pretty low in every data source (take your pick)
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:01 AM
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Just to chime in with my $.02, we offer tuning for and own both vehicles. I think this dyno comparison sums it all up nicely...

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  #9  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:34 AM
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If I'm reading the dyno right, you guys are seeing torque peak of 300 lb/ft from the F30 at 4K-4.5K RPM with your tuning. Impressive.
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:42 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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C.R. is for general consumers - the type of people who buy a car for brand or image, not forum dwellers. Their review sounds quite spot-on to me. iDrive is vastly improved and a good system now, but don't consider "Idrive is now really good" with "Idrive is the best!"

The infiniti costs alot less for alot more and it's weaknesses, comparably, are more about at-the-limit driving. Day to day, it's the value buy in this segment. Which is what C.R. rates the best - the value buy.

At the end of the day, BMW has convinced a certain amount of the population to pay over $40k (normally) for a 2.0 liter 4-banger entry level semi-lux/sports sedan. Good for them. But don't be surprised it's not a C.R. most recommended pick...
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS View Post
Just to chime in with my $.02, we offer tuning for and own both vehicles. I think this dyno comparison sums it all up nicely...

This data is meaninless without the test results from a washing machine to compare it to,

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  #12  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:01 AM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
The infiniti costs alot less for alot more and it's weaknesses, comparably, are more about at-the-limit driving. Day to day, it's the value buy in this segment. Which is what C.R. rates the best - the value buy.
So the fact that the Infiniti suffers from more road noise, wind noise, and gets the worst gas mileage in it's class is "at-the-limit driving" stuff. Or the fact that has the tightest cabin? I see those all to be VERY relevant when rating a car. I'm not saying that the Infinti shouldn't be rated higher by CR standards but the gap and the CR rating is ridiculous.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:15 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
So the fact that the Infiniti suffers from more road noise, wind noise, and gets the worst gas mileage in it's class is "at-the-limit driving" stuff. Or the fact that has the tightest cabin? I see those all to be VERY relevant when rating a car. I'm not saying that the Infinti shouldn't be rated higher by CR standards but the gap and the CR rating is ridiculous.
If I tell you you can lease a G37 for $350/mo., where a similarly equipped 328i will lease for $550/mo. right now, would this info not make the CR rating more tolerable, if a good value is very high on their list?
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:49 PM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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If I tell you you can lease a G37 for $350/mo., where a similarly equipped 328i will lease for $550/mo. right now, would this info not make the CR rating more tolerable, if a good value is very high on their list?
You couldn't lease a G37 for that when they CR did the rating. The G37 is old and the new model will be out soon. Merc and BMW already have their new models out. It's not a fair comparison. I've seen some pretty good deals on 2012 coupes and X's but again that's not a fair comparison. New models always go for more.

Even if we said that was fair, CR is obviously in love with the G37 and failed to mention several of it's known faults.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:17 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
You couldn't lease a G37 for that when they CR did the rating. The G37 is old and the new model will be out soon. Merc and BMW already have their new models out. It's not a fair comparison. I've seen some pretty good deals on 2012 coupes and X's but again that's not a fair comparison. New models always go for more.

Even if we said that was fair, CR is obviously in love with the G37 and failed to mention several of it's known faults.
When did CR do the latest review for G37? If they did it a long time ago, I recall at one point C&D rated the G37 (or was it G35?) above a 328i at the time, seem to recall it was 2007.
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:35 PM
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If I'm reading the dyno right, you guys are seeing torque peak of 300 lb/ft from the F30 at 4K-4.5K RPM with your tuning. Impressive.
It's > 250whp from 4500 to 6500. But the car is a real rocket around town especially compared to the C250. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the C250 as well. It's smoother and more refined, similar to the E90 N52. But from a drivers perspective there really is no comparison even unmodified. The F30 gets better gas mileage, is more responsive, makes more power, and sounds better, IMHO.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:29 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Why is it that people get so hung up with CR's final score? Other mags do the same and we disagree with them once we look at the details. All these tests give you objective metrics for specific performance areas, such as 0-60, braking distance, slalom, etc. Then they give you a bunch of other information, such as reliability, comfort, design, various details, etc. They then come up with some arbitrary way to weigh these various attributes to come up with a ranking/score. Obviously, we all have different priorities and will weigh different attributes accordingly.

I suspect this issue comes up often enough that CR has written this for idiots who need to be told how to interpret their test results: "look at the reviews to pick cars according to your own priorities" (paraphrasing since I can't find the exact excerpt).
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:25 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Why is it that people get so hung up with CR's final score? Other mags do the same and we disagree with them once we look at the details. All these tests give you objective metrics for specific performance areas, such as 0-60, braking distance, slalom, etc. Then they give you a bunch of other information, such as reliability, comfort, design, various details, etc. They then come up with some arbitrary way to weigh these various attributes to come up with a ranking/score. Obviously, we all have different priorities and will weigh different attributes accordingly.

I suspect this issue comes up often enough that CR has written this for idiots who need to be told how to interpret their test results: "look at the reviews to pick cars according to your own priorities" (paraphrasing since I can't find the exact excerpt).
The same can be said about any publications and promotions, one kind or another, including enthusiasts forums.

I'd be more impressed if you come out of a cave, test drive a car never heard of or seen before, and form your own buying decision based on that and that alone.

Last edited by dtc100; 06-29-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:14 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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I love how the g37 gets dinged by some BMW fanatics for getting worse gas mileage, despite a 90 hp and significant torque and torque curve advantage. Yes, of course it gets worse gas mileage. But, as pointed out, you can readily buy that gas with all the money you save on your monthly payments (lease or otherwise).

Listen, I'm a BMW guy. I get it. But again, C.R. rates the value buy as the top pick - and BMW marketing does not mistake itself and aim to be the value buy. They are the premium buy - the slot people pay more for simply for intangible reasons or things BMW marketing likes to make up as needing to be important to the buyer.

Step back for a second to 2006 (which, economically, is about where we are now) and ask yourself: If BMW offered a 4-cyl turbo 3-series that weighed 3400 pounds, got ~30-32mpg, put out good power...would you buy it? Would you buy it for $40-45k?

People lose context when they look at what's new and exciting. Especially early adopters and individuals who simply want the latest and greatest and will pay for it.

C.R. does not cater to those individuals.
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