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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:02 AM
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Autoweek Review Doesn't Much Like 528xi

Interesting new review in Autoweek about the 528xi. They opine that it is "an overmatched four-cylinder application." Certainly it's a good car for many uses, but their thoughts are very much like mine when I chose a 535xi instead.

Quote:
I won't say that the 2012 BMW 528i xDrive is slow, because when you wind it out it gets up and going. But the acceleration isn't something you'd comment on, unless, of course, it was the lack of acceleration.

The eight-speed automatic certainly helps in getting at all of the available power. I liked this engine in the Z4, but that car is several hundred pounds lighter than the 5-series here. The small-displacement turbo engine is smooth and revs quickly, with no turbo lag, but it's not something that will ignite much passion.
See:http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...IEWS/120629837

Last edited by tim330i; 06-28-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:12 AM
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Sorry I Inadvertently Posted Twice

Sorry I inadvertently posted twice.
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  #3  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:41 AM
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Autoweek Review Doesn't Much Like 528xi

There's a surprise.......
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:03 AM
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At the risk of offending buyers of the 528, I'm a believer that you don't sell a premium car at a premium price with sub-premium components. I get that many folks are concerned about economy, even in a $60k car. But there reaches a point where you should not compromise your core values. One of BMW's core values has been silky smooth in-line six cylinder engines.

I think they should have made the base engine the Direct Injected straight six that has been available in Europe, with the 535 getting a bump to 330-340 hp.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:07 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Ouch, thats a pretty negative review, mostly aimed at the 4 cyl engine. I agree with the editor that the 4 cyl seem rougher when the ASS engages. I must say I agree with most of everything in the artilcle. Other manufacturers are starting to offer 4 cyl engines in their mid size luxury sport sedan as well, my guess is that we will see more and more 4 cyl mid size luxury sport sedan offering in the future.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:12 AM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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I haven't driven the 528 with the 4, but I have the 328. I didn't mind the exhaust note of the engine at all (granted it may be different in the 528), what I entirely abhor is the stop/start. What a shoddy implementation. After 2 stops I knew I wouldn't want to live with the "clunk". And of course, it's another button to push each time I start the car.

The stop/start I really don't understand. From my discussion with the presenter at the info session during the drive event he said the stop/start feature isn't part of the MPG equation since it's a feature that can be driver disabled. So it would seem if it's not included to meet the MPG requirements why is it included at all (especially if it brings such a low level of refinement along for the ride)? I'm not aware of any compelling percentage of customers raving about it. I know from my own experience I wouldn't purchase a BMW with it.

Unfortunately I believe these sorts of features are here to stay and will grow in number. I truly hope BMW expands the scope of key/driver profiles so we can save all of our settings (Sport+ = ON, Stop/Start = OFF, etc.) and have them auto-set on startup, or better yet just remain when shut off. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to replace my '11 528 this level of profile management will be the norm.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Ouch, thats a pretty negative review, mostly aimed at the 4 cyl engine. I agree with the editor that the 4 cyl seem rougher when the ASS engages. I must say I agree with most of everything in the artilcle. Other manufacturers are starting to offer 4 cyl engines in their mid size luxury sport sedan as well, my guess is that we will see more and more 4 cyl mid size luxury sport sedan offering in the future.
Without the straight six ,it really is no longer for this and other reasons "the ultimate driving machine"
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
. . . One of BMW's core values has been silky smooth in-line six cylinder engines. I think they should have made the base engine the Direct Injected straight six that has been available in Europe, with the 535 getting a bump to 330-340 hp.
I agree, and the normally aspirated six would have been my choice if it had been available when I got my car. However, now that I've had my 535xi with its turbocharged six for a while, I'm glad that was the choice I made.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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Originally Posted by jimpal View Post
I agree, and the normally aspirated six would have been my choice if it had been available when I got my car. However, now that I've had my 535xi with its turbocharged six for a while, I'm glad that was the choice I made.
And the sad part is the '11 528i came with a direct injected, naturally aspirated, inline 6. It had 240hp/230lb-ft torque. I don't regret for a second jumping on the opportunity to get it.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:01 AM
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Autoweek had a 550xi as a long-term test car last year, so I would think most of their staff got to experience the 400hp V8 first.
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:47 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by Raddius View Post
And the sad part is the '11 528i came with a direct injected, naturally aspirated, inline 6. It had 240hp/230lb-ft torque. I don't regret for a second jumping on the opportunity to get it.
Are you sure the 2011 528i's engine has direct injection? If it did, no doubt I would rather have the direct injected, naturally aspirated, inline 6 engine instead of the 4 banger. Whats the MPG difference between the two?
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Are you sure the 2011 528i's engine has direct injection? If it did, no doubt I would rather have the direct injected, naturally aspirated, inline 6 engine instead of the 4 banger. Whats the MPG difference between the two?
It was not Direct Injected. That's why I made the comment I did earlier about the DI version that was available in Europe. It had 272 hp.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Autoweek had a 550xi as a long-term test car last year, so I would think most of their staff got to experience the 400hp V8 first.
The TTV8 must have spoiled them rotten. It is a great engine.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Are you sure the 2011 528i's engine has direct injection? If it did, no doubt I would rather have the direct injected, naturally aspirated, inline 6 engine instead of the 4 banger. Whats the MPG difference between the two?
This article says it is.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/5-series/...st-specs1.html

This article says it isn't.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-bmw-528i-test

...so I guess I don't know.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Raddius View Post
This article says it is.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/5-series/...st-specs1.html

This article says it isn't.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-bmw-528i-test

...so I guess I don't know.
I think its the same engine as my wife's 328xi, 240 hp = no DI.
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpal View Post
Interesting new review in Autoweek about the 528xi. They opine that it is "an overmatched four-cylinder application." Certainly it's a good car for many uses, but their thoughts are very much like mine when I chose a 535xi instead.

See:http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...IEWS/120629837
Here we go again....
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2012, 01:21 PM
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I was surprisingly impressed with the new 4 in a 328 loaner vs the old 6, but I guess I see their point that you expect a little more in a 50k+ sport sedan.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:34 PM
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It seems like a lot of the complaints in the article were about noise. Honest question, but I'm not sure if they are saying it is too quiet or too loud?

As an owner of a 2012 528xi, the car seems incredibility quiet to me. This seems to be backed up most reviews, which included actual testing:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...8i-test-review

Here is what they wrote:

"What about that other four-cylinder concern: noise? From behind the wheel, there’s not much that betrays this engine’s configuration. The only clue is a slight purr at idle. The ultraquiet 528i registered a 7-series–like 64 decibels at 70 mph and a low 70 dB during full-throttle acceleration."

If folks are concerned the 528 is quiet and doesn't have the aggressive, high-revving sound of other engines, I get that and the 528 would be not the best choice. However if folks are saying that it is too loud than I'm just confused?
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikmort View Post
It seems like a lot of the complaints in the article were about noise. Honest question, but I'm not sure if they are saying it is too quiet or too loud?

As an owner of a 2012 528xi, the car seems incredibility quiet to me. This seems to be backed up most reviews, which included actual testing:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...8i-test-review

Here is what they wrote:

"What about that other four-cylinder concern: noise? From behind the wheel, there’s not much that betrays this engine’s configuration. The only clue is a slight purr at idle. The ultraquiet 528i registered a 7-series–like 64 decibels at 70 mph and a low 70 dB during full-throttle acceleration."

If folks are concerned the 528 is quiet and doesn't have the aggressive, high-revving sound of other engines, I get that and the 528 would be not the best choice. However if folks are saying that it is too loud than I'm just confused?
It is interesting that the C & D and the Autoweek reviews are at such odds. However it should be noted that one was the x variant and the other was the standard rwd variant. This might have made a difference, but Mikmort would probably not agree.

I have the 2012 528i and am delighted with it. Looking at the comments from other people in this thread it seems that lot of people do not agree that this car is worthy of the BMW name. However, as the owner of 11 BMWs in the past and on my 7th 5 er. this is a very good car. I have had 5 ers with everything from 180 bhp engines to the V8 285 bhp 2002 540i. Does it sound as good as the 3.0 litre 300 bhp engine, no it does not. Does it drive and handle well (it tends to feel, iMHO, more nimble than the 535i due to the reduced overall weight and reduced weight at the front), it does and really does behave like a BMW. Put this car into Sport mode and it will give you plenty of entertainment.

Each to his own but the difference between the 535i and 528i in my testing did not justify the $6K difference in price for equivalent configurations (which is considerably different to the difference quoted by Autoweek). Also I was looking for a larger BMW with reduced fuel consumption. I respect everyone choices for their particular model, but I do take exception to the characterization of 528i owners in this thread. It should be noted that, in the UK at least, the most popular 5 series is the 520d which has an even smaller bhp output but slightly better torque and I am sure they would not like to be characterized in this way. These are fun cars and you do not need large engines to prove it. Enjoy your 535i and 550i, I am certain they are very good cars, but so is the 528i.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:12 PM
Princeton3 Princeton3 is offline
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I don't understand why there is such a pissing contest in this forum regarding the F10? You don't find ___vs____ in any other forum but this one. You seldom see it in the 3, 6, or 7 series forums. But for some strange reason, many of those who own 535s and 550s have this holier than thou attitude against 528 owners and it is quite disturbing. Different people buy different cars for different reasons; some based on mpg, safety, performance, etc., etc., etc. But the attitude in this forum regarding those who purchased 528s is quite ridiculous. I certainly don't think there is that much difference in terms of performance between the 528 and the 535 to justify 535 owners' claims that that car is so much better. I test drove both models numerous times before purchasing and could not justify the extra cost of the 535 where there was miniscule difference in terms of performance. Funny you don't see 335 owners lambasting 328 owners in that forum; you don't see 650 owners constantly attacking 640 owners in that forum; and, you don't see 750 owners constantly making disparaging remarks about 740 owners- there simply seems to be great comraderie amongst those owners and there appears to be a true since of common interest not found here, or if it is here, it is the 535 and 550 subgroup vs. the 528 folks. Give it a rest already. We are all BMW enthusiasts, we love our cars for different reasons and we bought what was right for us - not to be able to find some forum to constantly brag about what we have and disparage others for what they have. Reviews are nothing more than subjective opinions about a particular product - everyone is going to have a different perspective on things because it is all very subjective.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:18 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitby View Post
It is interesting that the C & D and the Autoweek reviews are at such odds. However it should be noted that one was the x variant and the other was the standard rwd variant. This might have made a difference, but Mikmort would probably not agree.

I have the 2012 528i and am delighted with it. Looking at the comments from other people in this thread it seems that lot of people do not agree that this car is worthy of the BMW name. However, as the owner of 11 BMWs in the past and on my 7th 5 er. this is a very good car. I have had 5 ers with everything from 180 bhp engines to the V8 285 bhp 2002 540i. Does it sound as good as the 3.0 litre 300 bhp engine, no it does not. Does it drive and handle well (it tends to feel, iMHO, more nimble than the 535i due to the reduced overall weight and reduced weight at the front), it does and really does behave like a BMW. Put this car into Sport mode and it will give you plenty of entertainment.

Each to his own but the difference between the 535i and 528i in my testing did not justify the $6K difference in price for equivalent configurations (which is considerably different to the difference quoted by Autoweek). Also I was looking for a larger BMW with reduced fuel consumption. I respect everyone choices for their particular model, but I do take exception to the characterization of 528i owners in this thread. It should be noted that, in the UK at least, the most popular 5 series is the 520d which has an even smaller bhp output but slightly better torque and I am sure they would not like to be characterized in this way. These are fun cars and you do not need large engines to prove it. Enjoy your 535i and 550i, I am certain they are very good cars, but so is the 528i.
As the first one who said "at the risk of offending 528 owners..." I'd like to reply. First of all, I will never tell anyone they should not buy a car. And in no way am I telling 528 owners that they should not have bought it or that I think it's a bad car.

What you have to understand from a marketing standpoint is that when you are in the business of selling premium products, you run a risk when you offer a version that leads to an overall cheapening of the brand. Again, I'm not aiming that at the people who buy them. It would be like Rolex selling a version of their watch that has a leather band (I don't own a Rolex, but I don't think they sell one with a leather band. If they do, please just bear with the point I'm trying to make). The leather band may work just fine and do it's job as well, or even better than those fancy bands that come on them. But it also might begin eroding the mystic of the brand that allows them to sell watches for such high prices.

Twice in the last few months BMW has been beaten up pretty badly for using components that in the testers eyes degraded the overall experience of the car. This one, and the C&D article that had nothing but problems with bent wheels.

How many articles like this have to come out before people start saying "hey, BMW's aren't all we thought they were. Maybe I really should be considering a Hyundai Genesis instead". BTW, the base engine in a Genesis is a 338hp direct injected V6 with an eight speed automatic, and the top engine is a 429hp DI 5.0 liter V8.

I'm sure some folks will take issue with my comparisons, but I hope you'll understand the point I'm trying to make - and I hope you don't take offense because it's not aimed at the buyers, it's aimed at BMW's marketing strategy and potential unintended consequences.

BTW, what they offer in Europe is of no consequence to this discussion. BMW, M-B etc have a totally different marketing strategy in the U.S. and there is a big difference in the conditions that have resulted in differences in the cars over there.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:23 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princeton3 View Post
I don't understand why there is such a pissing contest in this forum regarding the F10? You don't find ___vs____ in any other forum but this one. You seldom see it in the 3, 6, or 7 series forums. But for some strange reason, many of those who own 535s and 550s have this holier than thou attitude against 528 owners and it is quite disturbing. Different people buy different cars for different reasons; some based on mpg, safety, performance, etc., etc., etc. But the attitude in this forum regarding those who purchased 528s is quite ridiculous. I certainly don't think there is that much difference in terms of performance between the 528 and the 535 to justify 535 owners' claims that that car is so much better. I test drove both models numerous times before purchasing and could not justify the extra cost of the 535 where there was miniscule difference in terms of performance. Funny you don't see 335 owners lambasting 328 owners in that forum; you don't see 650 owners constantly attacking 640 owners in that forum; and, you don't see 750 owners constantly making disparaging remarks about 740 owners- there simply seems to be great comraderie amongst those owners and there appears to be a true since of common interest not found here, or if it is here, it is the 535 and 550 subgroup vs. the 528 folks. Give it a rest already. We are all BMW enthusiasts, we love our cars for different reasons and we bought what was right for us - not to be able to find some forum to constantly brag about what we have and disparage others for what they have. Reviews are nothing more than subjective opinions about a particular product - everyone is going to have a different perspective on things because it is all very subjective.
No "holier than thou" opinion of 528 owners. I could care less what other people buy and I have friends who own 528's. My post above explains my point. It is not at all aimed at the owners or even the car itself. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can take it personally that I say I think the 528 should still be an in-line six instead of a four cylinder. People criticize certain aspects of these cars all the time. I don't take it personally that my car has navigation and there are lots of threads saying it's junk. And those who have Goodyear LS tires don't don't get offended when other people say they think those tires are junk and should not be put on the car.
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:19 PM
Princeton3 Princeton3 is offline
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Another interesting comparison was done by Edmund's Insideline comparing the 2011 550 to the 2011 M56:

"At our test track, the M56 was slightly quicker to 60 mph than the 550i, 5.0 to 5.2 seconds, respectively (4.7 and 4.9 seconds with a 1-foot rollout, as on a drag strip). So the BMW is slower, despite the fact that it's capable of getting a near-perfect amount of wheelspin off the line thanks to power-braking, something the Infiniti's brake-override system won't allow."

"With all of the BMW's high-techery, you'd think it would easily handle the Infiniti when the going gets twisty. Not so, especially in terms of instrumented testing. The M56 bested the 550i by 1.2 mph through the slalom (66.7 vs. 65.5 mph, respectively) while generating 0.89g around the skid pad against the BMW's so-so 0.84g. The blame for the 550i's less-than-stellar performance doesn't lie purely with its all-season tires either, as they provided enough grip for it to stop almost as well as the M56 - just 1 foot longer from both 30 and 60 mph. The BMW's pedal felt stronger at the test track, but when pushing hard on back roads the Infiniti's optional ($370) high-friction brake pads felt more consistent."

"More than anything, the 550i is simply too heavy and softly sprung for aggressive back-road driving. Even with the suspension at its stiffest setting, the 550i exhibited a surprising amount of understeer, while the 5's electric power steering feels artificial. You can still flog the 550i, but you won't feel completely in touch with the car."

"But it's clear the driver seat of the Infiniti is the place to be when you pick up the pace on any kind of curvy road. The M56's steering becomes more and more natural as speeds increase, while the stiff suspension soaks up turns, if not bumps, with ease. The whole M56 experience, from its quick steering to its stiff suspension, is a bit on the frenetic side, but it's more engaging than the vague BMW."

Maybe you should have gone with the Infinit M56, considering it is also significantly less expensive.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:55 PM
rikwynn rikwynn is offline
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BMW Has to sell this car

Guys:

BMW has to sell this car. The switch to the 4 cyl in the F10 was not for the customer it was for their CAFE average. Simple. BME need to sell a bunch of higher mileage cars by 2015 to avoid huge fines from EPA if they miss the fleet CAFE average. They will discount it heavily as they have already started to do to get enough of them sold and in the fleet. This is not a question of is the car BMW-enough. It's all about the CAFE. That's why an X3 diesel is on the way too. For every M car they sell they need to sell 2 4 cyl cars.

[/B];6922599]At the risk of offending buyers of the 528, I'm a believer that you don't sell a premium car at a premium price with sub-premium components. I get that many folks are concerned about economy, even in a $60k car. But there reaches a point where you should not compromise your core values. One of BMW's core values has been silky smooth in-line six cylinder engines.

I think they should have made the base engine the Direct Injected straight six that has been available in Europe, with the 535 getting a bump to 330-340 hp.[/QUOTE]
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2012 F10 535xi M Sport, Alpine White, Dakota Black
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:56 PM
rikwynn rikwynn is offline
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Mein Auto: 535 M Sport
Sorry it's all you see in the 3 forum...328 vs 335

The 3 series forum is half my 335 is better than your 328....

QUOTE=Princeton3;6923743]I don't understand why there is such a pissing contest in this forum regarding the F10? You don't find ___vs____ in any other forum but this one. You seldom see it in the 3, 6, or 7 series forums. But for some strange reason, many of those who own 535s and 550s have this holier than thou attitude against 528 owners and it is quite disturbing. Different people buy different cars for different reasons; some based on mpg, safety, performance, etc., etc., etc. But the attitude in this forum regarding those who purchased 528s is quite ridiculous. I certainly don't think there is that much difference in terms of performance between the 528 and the 535 to justify 535 owners' claims that that car is so much better. I test drove both models numerous times before purchasing and could not justify the extra cost of the 535 where there was miniscule difference in terms of performance. Funny you don't see 335 owners lambasting 328 owners in that forum; you don't see 650 owners constantly attacking 640 owners in that forum; and, you don't see 750 owners constantly making disparaging remarks about 740 owners- there simply seems to be great comraderie amongst those owners and there appears to be a true since of common interest not found here, or if it is here, it is the 535 and 550 subgroup vs. the 528 folks. Give it a rest already. We are all BMW enthusiasts, we love our cars for different reasons and we bought what was right for us - not to be able to find some forum to constantly brag about what we have and disparage others for what they have. Reviews are nothing more than subjective opinions about a particular product - everyone is going to have a different perspective on things because it is all very subjective.[/QUOTE]
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