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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:42 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
Dunno, while mountainous terrain clutch-only launches are certainly easier in my brother's 550 HP Mustang SVT with a baziilion foot pounds of torque than they are on my little Honda with 150 ft. lbs torque, I have a hard time getting past the feeling that, particularly on the S2000, they're harder on clutches than hand brake launches.
It is a little counter-intuitive that lower horsepower cars with a MT are actually harder to drive well. You may slip the clutch a bit more as one needs higher RPMs, but the light car and lower power engine will not heat up the clutch. The trick, of course, is to get the clutch completely out quickly and smoothly.

The S2000 is an amazingly fun, wonderful car. It generously rewards good driving and demands higher RPMs. One needs to be thinking "race car" to drive it seriously well. Enjoy!
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  #27  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
It's really not so bad. I don't think most people can even notice the feature at work. What you would hate, for sure, is "skip shift," an "eco" device that Ford and GM are implementing on their cars equipped with manual transmissions. Hopefully BMW never goes that route!
That, and terminally good taste, is what has kept me out of Corvettes for years.

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  #28  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
It is a little counter-intuitive that lower horsepower cars with a MT are actually harder to drive well. You may slip the clutch a bit more as one needs higher RPMs, but the light car and lower power engine will not heat up the clutch. The trick, of course, is to get the clutch completely out quickly and smoothly.

The S2000 is an amazingly fun, wonderful car. It generously rewards good driving and demands higher RPMs. One needs to be thinking "race car" to drive it seriously well. Enjoy!
Thanks, here's mine.





While I've briefly flirted with Boxsters and Z4s, I've been driving S2000s pretty steadily since 2000. For me, nothing else compares - they're like the go-carts with the twin chainsaw motors that I piloted as a kid.

I have, however, totally re-jiggered the suspension to reduce (somewhat) the cars trailing throttle oversteer characteristics.







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Last edited by GVFlyer; 07-03-2012 at 04:40 AM. Reason: Creative spelling.
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:29 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by lukeb817 View Post
Finessing the brake release, clutch release and depressing the accelerator for a smooth take off with no backward roll on a hill is just as much about confidence as it is about skill. I've never used the hand brake on an incline, but it seems to me that it is just an added complication, but to each his own.
When you have San Francisco grade hills and a small puny engine, even hand brake assist may not be enough. I once got stuck on one of the steepest hills in a 70Hp econocar with passengers and suitcases in the trunk. Pedal to the metal with hand brake was not enough; I had to build up momentum going sideways

There are hills and then there are hills. I mean 30% grade hills! Using the hand brake can make for a much smoother takeoff that is gentler on the clutch and the transmission. Also, sometimes folks stop a couple of inches behind your bumper, in which case hand brake takeoff is mandatory.

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  #30  
Old 07-04-2012, 06:11 AM
lukeb817 lukeb817 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
When you have San Francisco grade hills and a small puny engine, even hand brake assist may not be enough. I once got stuck on one of the steepest hills in a 70Hp econocar with passengers and suitcases in the trunk. Pedal to the metal with hand brake was not enough; I had to build up momentum going sideways

There are hills and then there are hills. I mean 30% grade hills! Using the hand brake can make for a much smoother takeoff that is gentler on the clutch and the transmission. Also, sometimes folks stop a couple of inches behind your bumper, in which case hand brake takeoff is mandatory.
Wow, that's a hell of a hill! Contrary to what one might expect, Cincinnati has quite a few very hilly neighborhoods too (Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Clifton Heights, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, on and on) but I've never felt the need to use the hand brake to start on a hill without fear of rolling back into the person behind me.



Whatever technique makes you most comfortable, is what you should use, but using the hand brake is kind of a beginner's crutch to build confidence while learning to drive a manual- once you know exactly how to find the friction zone of the clutch and you can finesse the brake and clutch release there really is no need for the hand brake and no need to worry about rolling backward...really more about confidence, which I suppose this "drive-off assistant" is really for...building confidence by eliminating the fear of rolling backwards. I just prefer to maintain control myself without intrusions like a hill-hold feature, not to mention it's just one more gadget that could malfunction and cost more time and $$ to repair.

A few excerpts about learning to drive a manual:

The handbrake.. "will allow you to remain in place and not roll backwards while you practice reaching the friction point quickly...As you get better, you will be able to reduce the amount and time that the parking brake is set, until you won't need it at all."

http://www.standardshift.com/faq.html

"If you're worried about rolling back between the time you release the brake pedal and engage the clutch you can "cheat" by pulling the emergency brake."

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/bu...nsmission.html
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  #31  
Old 07-04-2012, 09:59 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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I hear you. I almost never use it, except occasionally on a couple of very steep hills, mostly because it seems to strain less the drivetrain.

A word of caution for 2.0T drivers. When you are just taking off, you have essentially zero turbo boost. So it's like having a normally aspirated 2.0L engine. Your engine might feel significantly weaker than normal and you have to compensate for that, by giving extra gas or blipping the gas pedal first to get the turbo spinning a little.
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  #32  
Old 07-04-2012, 11:30 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Shafer View Post
...I like being in control when starting on a hill; I prefer not having an "assistant"...
The fact of the matter is, you will have MORE control with the start-off assistant.
I've been driving manuals for more than 50 years, starting with a '43 Jeep with non-synchronized 1st. The SOA is nice. Period.
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  #33  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Period.
Gosh. That's it? We now have the definitive answer? No other thoughts or opinions?

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  #34  
Old 07-04-2012, 03:46 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Gosh. That's it? We now have the definitive answer? No other thoughts or opinions?
My opinion is that you didn't read (or edit) correctly. I said: "The SOA is nice. Period".
It is a nice feature. And that's not just my opinion - look around and see how many people think it's nice.

If you like thoughts, consider this: The more people able to drive a MT car, or willing to try because of this feature, means that there are more MTs around and more MTs around longer.

I've been almost nailed by a couple drivers in downtown Seattle lately on our hills. Both times I was over 5' from them. The most recent was coming off the ferry and going up the hill; I was behind a couple from CO in a Jetta TDI. The previous time was a guy in an E30 318is; he stalled it the first time, then almost blew it the 2nd time, got within 18" or so of me.

Have to say one thing: racing engine and/or clutch and/or tire smoke gets the pedestrians back up on the curb.
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  #35  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:06 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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"Period." - as with "Nuff said" - is typically used by the speaker to bring a halt to discussion: his word means no more discussion is needed, or even possible; the definitive opinion has been expressed.

It is tiresome.

Perhaps your meaning and use differs.
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  #36  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:13 PM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
"Period." - as with "Nuff said" - is typically used by the speaker to bring a halt to discussion: his word means no more discussion is needed, or even possible; the definitive opinion has been expressed.

It is tiresome.

Perhaps your meaning and use differs.

My first software hack would be to "get rid of the assistant". I prefer to go it alone.



That's just me. I got rid of the clutch delay valve on my M3 as well. Sometimes I like to bang a gear (speedshift).
There's nothing quite like "laying down a scratch" going from 1st to 2nd gear. Newer BMW technologies preclude it.

Thank God for DIY.

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  #37  
Old 07-18-2012, 02:42 PM
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crazyeyeskilla crazyeyeskilla is offline
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I've been driving a manual for 25 years, so I don't care if the feature is there or not - I can start on a 45 degree angle without sliding back more than an inch before I'm going. That said, it is unobtrusive and does allow for a little less concentration on steep hill starts.

On my 335, the feature holds the brakes when you depress the clutch with your foot on the brake and then release the brake pedal. If you take your foot off the brake just before pushing in the clutch, the feature doesn't activate and you can roll backward to your heart's content. That's a cheap way for the fanatically pure MT operators to avoid experiencing it .
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