3 series sales down

F30's seem to be moving out of dealers lots, but I'm not seeing them on the street.

Originally Posted by brkf

So agree. I remember the first time i saw an e46 in traffic and I loved the design instantly. 14 years later that style still strikes me as perfect.

i am getting an F30 but i would prefer a cherry 2005 ZHP sedan over it.

All it took was this one image back in 2006 to make me love everything about the E9X after, to me, the boring E46 which was a puffy, rounded version of the sleek E36.

BJ

Originally Posted by beden1

How is this possible? I see the latest two generations as very similar, except for personal dislikes that I have for the new version including: lack of steering feel; lack of suspension involvement; front end sticking out with larger grills, and IMO, really cheasy looking headlamp designs incorporating the grill; and stuck on after thought looking chrome pieces on the front and rear bumpers. The car has been cheapened to attract who? I'd say the Chinese customer, but I would be accused by being racist.

It's a matter of your point of reference, beden. You've driven some tight cars, currently riding a 335i 'Vert. For me in a 328i x-Drive Sedan, I've got a different point of view compared to what I've got now:

The F30 feels lighter, tighter, and more responsive. Can really feel the turbo's and the difference in acceleration, and the transmission is much smoother. The RWD vs. AWD makes the car feel more nimble. Instead of a drab all-Black M-Sport interior, I'm getting contrasting Saddle which is very exciting. Instead of the drab monochromatic exterior I'm getting some bling with chrome window trim and front/rear bumper trim. Instead of pothole-explosions, the Comfort suspension setting feels just as tight and won't scare my passengers. I'm getting iDrive and Premium for the first time, and the Tech package with all the bells and whistles.

It's not the "Chinese customer" that BMW is trying to excite but rather existing customers. They appeal to us in different ways based largely on the cars we're currently driving. You are bought-in to the BMW performance myth and so you don't like the blingy exterior. I recognize the BMW status reality and so I like the better balance here of luxury look and sporty feel. The 3 Series has always been about the blend of Sport and Luxury which I think the F30 achieves far better than the E90 which was more of a compromise of both.

BJ

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

I do. Perception is uniquely subjective... Different strokes for different folks.

I learned long ago in the car business that what appeals to one person will not necessarily appeal to another, and in sales, it is not for me to judge.

At the very first dealership that I ever worked at I heard so many sayings, expressions, ways of thinking about things such as this. Back then it was Nissan right after they swtiched over from using the name Datsun. We used to sell these Stanza GXE's in "French Beige Metallic" color. So many of them it was unbelievable. I really couldn't understand it, because in my taste they were the most hideous color I had ever seen (think pimpmobile -- purple/pink metallic paint, burgundy velour interior). One Saturday morning at a sales meeting the old crusty closer shared his words of wisdom with me, "Jon, there is an @$$ for every seat." From that moment on I never again questioned what someone ordered or bought. Instead, I embraced them, and sold the heck out of them..

+1.

So few people here think like the average customer it's astounding. 0-60 times, weight, twisties, torque, drops, it's ridiculous. If even 0.5% of the 3 Series driving population cares about this stuff it's a lot. It's cool that a site like BF exists for that kind of talk, but that's not real-world as you well know.

The demographic of a 3 Series driver is: 50% female, 51% leasing, average age 47. The F30 is a status symbol for the upper-middle class executive and his wife. A perfect car to take to the corporate parking lot or the country club to tell the world you've made it and have a bit of a sporty nature. That's it. When it comes down to it, we lease our cars for 3 years, lease is up, time to ask ourselves the following:

Is the F30 better looking than the E90? Check.
Is the F30 similarly priced to the E90? Check.
Is the F30 available with lots of options? Check.

That's it. We pick our color and our toys, and we leave. We're just re-upping for what we've owned for years because BMW hasn't done anything to screw it up. The core 3 Series buyer isn't deleting the sunroof to save 30 pounds. They're just moving to the new 3 because the lease on the old 3 expired. If sales are soft right now its due to the success of the E90 and the leases there that haven't expired yet.

BJ

Styling aside, after having spent a few hours in a F30 335i, and kicking it in the pants, the car does drive bitchen. The majority of the respondents here in this forum have only demoed 328i. They both drive awesome. The 6 Cyl turbo is more similar to my supercharged M3, hence I prefer it. It kicks @$$ as a matter of fact. Can't wait to get it.. *SAG*

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Styling aside, after having spent a few hours in a F30 335i, and kicking it in the pants, the car does drive bitchen. The majority of the respondents here in this forum have only demoed 328i. They both drive awesome. The 6 Cyl turbo is more similar to my supercharged M3, hence I prefer it. It kicks @$$ as a matter of fact. Can't wait to get it.. *SAG*

+1

Once we took the 335i out for an extended ride we returned with a deposit.

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Styling aside, after having spent a few hours in a F30 335i, and kicking it in the pants, the car does drive bitchen. The majority of the respondents here in this forum have only demoed 328i. They both drive awesome. The 6 Cyl turbo is more similar to my supercharged M3, hence I prefer it. It kicks @$$ as a matter of fact. Can't wait to get it.. *SAG*

I hear that Jon. Hell I have not been this excited about a car since, well damn am I that old? LOL. no seriously Once I drove the 335i with the adaptive suspension, 6-MT no way was I not getting it.

I have absolutely no interest in a 3 Series sedan and do not even intend to test drive one. A small sedan with a cramped rear seat is not a car that I have any particular use for although i certainly understand why it appeals to some people. I will probably test drive a 335i convertible when they become available but after my experience with the E93 it will have to be an order of magnitude improvement for me to consider one.
I will most likely wait for the new M3 so I can back to back compare it to the 335. I like the new 6 but after the retractable hard top on the E93 I don't really want a rag top.

I can take my time since I do not have to worry about leases terminating. Haven't driven the 335 much lately but the last time I did I was reminded of how much I hate driving it in NYC.
This weekend I am taking it to Connecticut where it will be in its own element driving with the top down on New England Country roads. At they point I will likely be able to experience the BMW Silly Ass Grin (SAG) that Jon is talking about instead of the GOP (grimace of pain) that I experience driving it in the NYC area.

3 series sales down ??


I just heard BMW is having its strongest first half year sales ever... even looking forward to record sales for 2012 ...

Originally Posted by DrivenByF30

3 series sales down ??
I just heard BMW is having its strongest first half year sales ever... even looking forward to record sales for 2012 ...

There are apparently a lot of people with an emotionally vested interest in seeing the F30 fail. Typically, when a new model comes out, the owners of the previous model describe themselves as "purists", and the new car is too big, heavy, a luxobarge, etc etc.

But this go-round, there seems to be a lot of anger.

Maybe they think it's ugly and want to see it fail.
Maybe they think it's a departure from some "true BMW values" for reasons X, Y, and Z.
Maybe they haven't paid off their E90 yet
Maybe they have some other legitimate gripe with the new platform.

But it's quite fascinating to see people hoping for failure, in the same way it's telling to see people rooting for BMW to win in market segments they have no interest in.

I guess everyone likes being on a team.

Originally Posted by reidconti

There are apparently a lot of people with an emotionally vested interest in seeing the F30 fail. Typically, when a new model comes out, the owners of the previous model describe themselves as "purists", and the new car is too big, heavy, a luxobarge, etc etc.

But this go-round, there seems to be a lot of anger.

Maybe they think it's ugly and want to see it fail.
Maybe they think it's a departure from some "true BMW values" for reasons X, Y, and Z.
Maybe they haven't paid off their E90 yet
Maybe they have some other legitimate gripe with the new platform.

But it's quite fascinating to see people hoping for failure, in the same way it's telling to see people rooting for BMW to win in market segments they have no interest in.

I guess everyone likes being on a team.

Those who cannot face facts must rely on speculation.

The new 3 sales have been down, this is a fact, the supply has been very limited, another fact.

BMW has the best first half year, a fact also, because of the robust sales of SUVs.

Let's face it, less and less people care about driving dynamics, more and more are interested in utility and comfort. Nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by DrivenByF30

3 series sales down ??


I just heard BMW is having its strongest first half year sales ever... even looking forward to record sales for 2012 ...

I heard the same thing and I suspect that the F30 will sell well as it is probably exactly what most potential buyers expect it to be

CA

All of us want BMW to do well while all of us that are and would be F30 owners don't want to see ourselves coming and going every other minute. I mean there are some places where 3-series are as common as Hondas.

Originally Posted by windsor027

All of us want BMW to do well while all of us that are and would be F30 owners don't want to see ourselves coming and going every other minute. I mean there are some places where 3-series are as common as Hondas.

That's all of southern california.

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-cent...fidential.html

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I have absolutely no interest in a 3 Series sedan and do not even intend to test drive one. A small sedan with a cramped rear seat is not a car that I have any particular use for although i certainly understand why it appeals to some people. I will probably test drive a 335i convertible when they become available but after my experience with the E93 it will have to be an order of magnitude improvement for me to consider one.

WTF? It's as big as the e39. That's a blooming midsize!

.

Originally Posted by brkf

WTF? It's as big as the e39. That's a blooming midsize!

That may be the case but does not change the fact that an I have no interest in a 3 Series sedan regardless of how nice a car it may be.


CA

Quick show of hands of who is actually buying an F30 or is a candidate to buy an F30.

Thought so.

While the opinions of 7 Series, 5 Series, X Series, 1 Series, E92, E93, and Station Wagon owners are certainly welcome you don't represent the target audience for the 3 Series so you don't understand what motivates us to buy.

For what we need the 3 Series to be, it satisfies quite nicely. And for what it is vs. prior years, it delivers phenomenally. It's more powerful, more nimble, more luxurious, more spacious, and more techy than prior versions and as the little brother of the 5 Series it's stunning to look at. For current E90 owners looking to switch to another brand, they've got a compelling reason to re-up. For current E90 leasers looking to consider another brand, they've got a no-brainer in gliding right into an F30.

Right now, the car is only available as a Sedan, no X-Drive, no inventory. Add it up, it means no worries. You can go back to your 7's, 5's, X's, 1's, and Wagon's now. Nothing more to see here.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

To each his own. I knew an 80 year old guy, still wore leisure suits and Members Only jackets.BJ

Ad hominem comments detract from the conversation and generally constitute intellectual surrender.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

All three. Owning out-of-style, discontinued, used cars the very moment you drive them out of the dealership isn't a prudent move on many levels.
BJ

It seems that you are championing style over substance - that we should buy cars not based on their utility to us - but rather on a few basis points on resale. The fact that the M3's NA V8, unhampered by CAFE standards (the new M3 6 cylinder is certainly a concession, just like the N20 motor) is of value to us shouldn't enter into the buying equation.

What would you have recommended that I purchase in the current BMW line in place of my 335is that offered comparable performance?

Concerning the F30, we drove it, thought that it was not much of a BMW (numb steering, diesel like four-popper, extensive body roll when compared to the E90, jarring restart with ASS, ridiculous styling cues and 5 series bulk) then purchased a car we all liked - the 328i xDrive with it's proven 12th generation, normally aspirated, inline 6 N52 motor.

In the case of the 328i sedan, what you are suggesting is that we eschew the better performing BMW in favor of the new compromise model - a model which is clearly aimed at it's lessor performing, pillowy, luxo-touring competitors - simply because it's new.

What's more, some of the interior detail on the F30 gave us pause. For instance, the intrusive, non-retractable, retractable-in-appearance NAV display and the cup holder that requires that you stow the lid in a little net in the glove box. C'mon guys, really?

As an additional consideration, I'm an engineering test pilot by profession, while in the military I had a commander who, when offered a brand new aircraft for his command, turned it down saying, "I'll wait until there's a "B" model". Considering the entry-into-service issues previous new BMW models have had, I think I'll stick with the General's advice - I'll wait until there's a "B" model.

The BMW's we've recently purchased. Why? Because we like them!

Originally Posted by brkf

That's all of southern california.

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-cent...fidential.html

that is what you get for living there.

I live in McLean Va and if you are familiar with the place, BMWs here are dime a dozen. Its the commuter car of McLean. Hell there isn't a day that goes by that I don't see a Bentley or two, Ferrari, Lambos etc. 911s also all over the place.

VGFlyer, beautiful cars man. I toyed with the idea of getting a 2012 M3, I think that V8 will be a classic. Problem is I didn't think it would be prudent to have such a car and go back and forth to work with. Don't mine BJ he is busy finding poor neighborhoods to drive around in his 328i and impress people.

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

It seems that you are championing style over substance - that we should buy cars not based on their utility to us - but rather on a few basis points on resale. The fact that the M3's NA V8, unhampered by CAFE standards (the new M3 6 cylinder is certainly a concession, just like the N20 motor) is of value to us shouldn't enter into the buying equation.

It's all good. You can start your own museum, charge people $5 to see them come 2017.

BJ

It seems that you are championing style over substance

That is an understatement.

Originally Posted by windsor027

...
VGFlyer, beautiful cars man. I toyed with the idea of getting a 2012 M3, I think that V8 will be a classic.

Thanks! A couple of the CAs at our Motorwerks think as you do and have purchased V8 M3s for that reason.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Problem is I didn't think it would be prudent to have such a car and go back and forth to work with.

Great minds...That's why I bought the 335is - much easier to envision as a daily driver/road trip car.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Don't mine BJ he is busy finding poor neighborhoods to drive around in his 328i and impress people.

That's pretty funny!

Originally Posted by windsor027

that is what you get for living there.

I live in McLean Va and if you are familiar with the place, BMWs here are dime a dozen. Its the commuter car of McLean. Hell there isn't a day that goes by that I don't see a Bentley or two, Ferrari, Lambos etc. 911s also all over the place.

+1

I'm in NoVa too and I see luxury cars all the time. However, I've yet to see a F30 on the road other than the time I test drove couple times near the dealership. I personally think the F30 is too expensive and there are many options in that price range. I did end up ordering the F30 myself but it's not because it provides the best value; it's just because I always want a BMW.

Originally Posted by windsor027

that is what you get for living there.

I live in McLean Va and if you are familiar with the place, BMWs here are dime a dozen. Its the commuter car of McLean. Hell there isn't a day that goes by that I don't see a Bentley or two, Ferrari, Lambos etc. 911s also all over the place.

Not to step on any toes, but when I worked in DC, McLean was the address of choice for Beltway Bandits and other well heeled gents that just had stacks and stacks of discretionary cash.

Originally Posted by AlphaForceX

+1

I'm in NoVa too and I see luxury cars all the time. However, I've yet to see a F30 on the road other than the time I test drove couple times near the dealership. I personally think the F30 is too expensive and there are many options in that price range. I did end up ordering the F30 myself but it's not because it provides the best value; it's just because I always want a BMW.

+1. I have seen only one on the road and it wasn't even in McLean but DC, a 328i. Don't know what the reason is but the E90 has been such a hot model that everyone who wanted a BMW 3 got one.. I believe as the leases come to an end, most will jump in the F30, but yes I agree if you go nuts with the options you are hitting over 50K for the 328i. That is not much of a value when you can get a very clean M3 with less than 50K. For example this one.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1

or this one:

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

Not to step on any toes, but when I worked in DC, McLean was the address of choice for Beltway Bandits and other well heeled gents that just had stacks and stacks of discretionary cash.

Not at all. And you are correct for the most part (if you are a lobbyist you probably live here..lol). It also seems to be the choice of rich Middle Easterners, while the Blue Blood of the DC area are in Great Falls, and Potomac.