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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 07-04-2012, 07:43 PM
VZJ VZJ is offline
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Bad Tire Wear - 6 months X5D

Hey guys -

I'm going to be calling the dealership tomorrow but today I noticed by 2012 X5D (20' option) with really bad outer tire wear. Mileage is about 9800 and I have had it for about 6.5 months. I think this a bit ridiculous for a new car even with 20' tires, thoughts? Should I even bother with them or is this normal? Seems the alignment is off or something. I'm hoping I don't have to pay for another alignment.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2012, 09:11 PM
georgejm georgejm is offline
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We need to compile these threads as not to lose our minds., here is a current one.......http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=629615
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2012, 11:01 PM
ard ard is offline
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1. It isn't the 20" rims

2. Without ACTUAL alignment numbers we are all pissing in the wind

3. BMW warranty on the ALIGNMENT is 2000 miles. If get an alignment (or have them check and report numbers) even if it is out of alignment, they will say "you must have hit a pothole"

4. Do your self-respect a favor and go to a big name brand national tire chain- have them check the alignment and SET the toe to the minimum AND buy new tires. Skip the dealer. They will charge you $300 for a $100 alignment- AND will not be accessible when it comes to wear, settings, values, etc...talk to the guy doing the work at the lcoal shop, toss them $20, and you'll get a GREAT jon.

Or go to the dealer, have them lie, stonewall, apologize for not being able to cover anything- and pay them $1600 for two tires and an alignment.

GL

A

PS You said outer tire wear...so fronts? Toe is probably at 0.12-0.16 total toe. You want 0.02- 0.04 or so....
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2012, 11:53 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Truth is, we get these complaints all the time from owners with the beautiful 20-inch wheels... they wear about three times as fast as the 19-inch option.

- Mike
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Truth is, we get these complaints all the time from owners with the beautiful 20-inch wheels... they wear about three times as fast as the 19-inch option.

- Mike
But they look so fantastic

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  #6  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:27 PM
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But they look so fantastic

Yes, they look insanely good.

- Mike
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2012, 06:36 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Truth is, we get these complaints all the time from owners with the beautiful 20-inch wheels... they wear about three times as fast as the 19-inch option.

- Mike
Technically speaking, can you explain how rim size impacts tire wear?

I know people say this- and techs repeat this- but it really seems like a cop out for not setting the alignment to a 'minimal wear' setting.

IMO, having the alignment set 'sub-optimally' is a far greater driver of tire wear than 19 versus 20 inch rims

A
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:51 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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+1 Ard question.

See I just have a question to the OP, do you drive the X5 like its on the 'ring? Then that would add up since, from what I gather is that the 20inch wheels seem to have factory biased neg. camber. Now common sense dictates that the inner side would be normal wearing far more than the outer. However if your driving aggressively the outer portion would go out faster. Massive simplification, but yea if the pros can chime in that would be great!
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2012, 07:06 PM
ard ard is offline
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I am almost 100% certain the alignment specs are the same, regardless of rim size. For some reason I seem to recall Mike (Emission) posting this factoid...

I am a broken record, but the most common issue is too much toe, which DRAMATICALLY exacerbates the wear due to camber (rear) and big engine plowing into turns (front)

A
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2012, 10:31 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Technically speaking, can you explain how rim size impacts tire wear?

I know people say this- and techs repeat this- but it really seems like a cop out for not setting the alignment to a 'minimal wear' setting.

IMO, having the alignment set 'sub-optimally' is a far greater driver of tire wear than 19 versus 20 inch rims

A
I'm no expert, but I am pretty sure it has to do with how far the outside of the tread is from the center of the wheel/hub (think offset).

The two tire choices are 19-inch (255/50-19 square) or 20-inch (staggered 275/40-20 and 315/35-20).

The 19-inch tires are approximately 10.4" wide, while the 20-inch (rear) tires are about 13" wide. This means the 20-inch tires are extending at least a full inch further out on either side of the center of the hub, completely changing how the tire treads are "loaded" when driving and cornering especially with aggressive camber thus explaining accelerated wear on the shoulders.

Now, the wear "can" be reduced with proper alignment settings... but BMW has chosen to simplify things with "one alignment specification" across the board (confirmed with my service writer, as you indicate).

- Mike
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'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
But they look so fantastic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Yes, they look insanely good.

- Mike
It's worth it to me
Okay, maybe I'm not that enthusiastic when its time to replace, but that's why my 2012 X5d w/20"s is on order. If I keep my bimmers long enough, I'm sure I'll need to replace tires at some point due to wear.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:35 AM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
It's worth it to me
Okay, maybe I'm not that enthusiastic when its time to replace, but that's why my 2012 X5d w/20"s is on order. If I keep my bimmers long enough, I'm sure I'll need to replace tires at some point due to wear.
If it makes anyone feel better, the Porsche 911 goes through tires in <10,000 miles (rears) as do many other high-end sports cars. (Anyone remember the old NSX tire wear?)

As they say, you have to pay to play.

- Mike
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I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

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'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2012, 09:55 AM
Lance Alot Lance Alot is offline
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I'm the obvious contrarian here, but there is no way in hell that I'd knowingly buy an SUV to change the tires every 10K miles

It's the price of entry for an M3 and other "high end sports cars", but it is not on a vehicle that the wife is using to haul my toddler and his gear around in. Everybody needs to do what makes them happy -- just as long as they know what you're getting into. I'm quite pleased that I went with the 19" set up though....more so after reading this thread.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2012, 06:01 PM
ihumphrey ihumphrey is offline
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Originally Posted by lance alot View Post
i'm the obvious contrarian here, but there is no way in hell that i'd knowingly buy an suv to change the tires every 10k miles

It's the price of entry for an m3 and other "high end sports cars", but it is not on a vehicle that the wife is using to haul my toddler and his gear around in. Everybody needs to do what makes them happy -- just as long as they know what you're getting into. I'm quite pleased that i went with the 19" set up though....more so after reading this thread.
+1!
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:49 AM
CAX5 CAX5 is offline
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I took off the crapy Run Flats from my 20's at 11000 Miles and put them in Storage to put back on at the end of my lease. I put on Michelin Latitude Tour HP's and now have 27000 Miles. The X rides so much smoother now. They still look new, no signs of wear. And believe me, I drive my X5 hard. I left the Alignment settings alone as my tire dealer told me if the tires wear, they have a mileage warranty and he would take care of it. The X5 will handle better if you leave the aggressive stock Alignment settings alone.
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:47 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by CAX5 View Post
I took off the crapy Run Flats from my 20's at 11000 Miles and put them in Storage to put back on at the end of my lease. I put on Michelin Latitude Tour HP's and now have 27000 Miles. The X rides so much smoother now. They still look new, no signs of wear. And believe me, I drive my X5 hard. I left the Alignment settings alone as my tire dealer told me if the tires wear, they have a mileage warranty and he would take care of it. The X5 will handle better if you leave the aggressive stock Alignment settings alone.
WHICH 'crappy' Run Flats? People say 'run flat' like it is ONE SPECIFIC TIRE...

You dont know what you are talking about with 'aggressive alignment' settings...BMW specifies A RANGE. Not 'one setting'... just shoot for the minimum part of the range. In terms of 'handles better'...please. Did you actually CHECK the alignment numbers, or just never looked at them- hence the "left alone" comment?

Oh, that "mileage warranty"??? Let us know what he says when you cord the edges due to too much toe in, and the warranty requires 'uniform wear' to be honored....
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:22 PM
davidc1 davidc1 is offline
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Just curious. I thought 20 inchers come with stickier tires that wear faster. Most high speed tires do. Sports cars or sportier versions of SUVs come with faster wearing tires to begin with, no?
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2012, 11:27 AM
sddjd sddjd is offline
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As dangerous as generalizations are, yes the 20" wheels (336's in my case) included softer compound tires than would be found on a more common SUV configuration. As such, they will wear down more quickly than your typical non-sport sedan, etc.

In my case, +1 year in on the 336's I'm seeing significant wear on the outer 1" of the fronts. Wear on the rears is imperceptible. However, I expect this as my commute includes several 25mph circular off-ramps that just beg to be navigated at 45+ (which is why we didn't purchase Explorers, no?). Leaning so heavily on that outer edge has its consequences!
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2012, 10:29 AM
Orygun_X5 Orygun_X5 is offline
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I am a new subscriber to Bimmerfest and would like to say thanks to all of you for the valuable exchange of ideas, as I am currently considering a switch from 18" to 20" wheels on my '09 X5.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:23 AM
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serge1 serge1 is online now
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I started seeing outer edges on front tires worn out way more than rest of the vehicle. Turns out alignment was out of wack.
Dropped by dealership and got alignment done on both axles for 169.99. Not too bad, since local Sears charges ~70$ per axle, but I have trouble trusting those guys (experience).
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:49 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serge1 View Post
I started seeing outer edges on front tires worn out way more than rest of the vehicle. Turns out alignment was out of wack.
Dropped by dealership and got alignment done on both axles for 169.99. Not too bad, since local Sears charges ~70$ per axle, but I have trouble trusting those guys (experience).
There is a large variation within the BMW 'spec'...you really need to tell there where, WITHIN the bmw range, you want them to set it..... what did they set the toe at??
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:04 AM
sarends sarends is offline
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Ard, it seems like I have observed you asking people what their alignment specs were several times and there is usually no answer - is it because people just don't ask or is it because alignment shops don't readily share this information?

Perhaps the OP just hasn't seen your question yet, but I have seen tire wear threads come to a screeching halt several times when questions are asked re. "what was the the last alignment spec"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
There is a large variation within the BMW 'spec'...you really need to tell there where, WITHIN the bmw range, you want them to set it..... what did they set the toe at??
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:02 PM
ard ard is offline
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Ard, it seems like I have observed you asking people what their alignment specs were several times and there is usually no answer - is it because people just don't ask or is it because alignment shops don't readily share this information?

Perhaps the OP just hasn't seen your question yet, but I have seen tire wear threads come to a screeching halt several times when questions are asked re. "what was the the last alignment spec"?
People think a car is either "aligned" or "not aligned"...a binary state, and as long as the shop said "it's good" they walk out the door. Most never ask for the paper.


Any BMW shop will usually staple the alignment doc to the work order- but this gets filed at the dealer. It is there for the asking.

A
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:27 PM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Originally Posted by VZJ View Post
Hey guys -

I'm going to be calling the dealership tomorrow but today I noticed by 2012 X5D (20' option) with really bad outer tire wear. Mileage is about 9800 and I have had it for about 6.5 months. I think this a bit ridiculous for a new car even with 20' tires, thoughts? Should I even bother with them or is this normal? Seems the alignment is off or something. I'm hoping I don't have to pay for another alignment.
Perhaps the 20" rim size alone is not the issue but the tires that fit those 20s might be the problem. The clear fact is that 20" wheel/tire combo wears out a lot faster than 19". Get rid of your 20s and your problem will disappear. I would not trade a higher wear rate and a harsher ride for what is perceived by some as a better look - I avoided the 20s when I ordered mine.

I got the alignment checked at 100 miles when I replaced the RFTs with normal tires and my local shop gave me the printout showing me that it was off by quite a bit. Total toe was .30 in front and .33 in back. It was set at .14 in front and .11 in back. I now have 11,000 miles on the tires and they look brand new showing no wear (Pirelli Scorpion Verdes 19" normal tires) - the on center feel going down the road is great and I've not detected any issues with this set up.

Finally, forget the dealer, move to normal 19" tires and leave all the hassles and additional expenses behind.

I've just noticed the date of the original post and discussion but I'm leaving this as general advice for those who have 20" tire wear problems.

Last edited by 1HOT BMR; 09-18-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Escondido Escondido is offline
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running with 20"s

I have the 20"s and took the advice of this forum to get an independent alignment at about 1,600 miles. Still to soon to have results. I'll try to get back here with my results after a few more thousand miles.

Came from the factory with:
LF .1 camber,7.2 caster, 1.4 toe RF -.2 camber,7.0 caster, .16 toe total toe .31
LR -1.3 camber, .06 toe RR -1.8 camber .05 toe total toe .10
Now set at:
LF .1 camber, 7.2 caster, .06 toe RF -.2 camber, 7.0 caster, .06 toe total toe .12
LR -.04 camber, .14 toe RR -.06 camber, .05 toe total toe .18

Have to say that the Dunlops are riding smooth and silent so far even before the alignment. I am at about 1,900 miles now. Dont notice any excess wear, but give it a few more miles, who knows.
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