Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 (2004 - 2010)

E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:49 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
If anyone located in the Long Island, ny area needs this repair done, send me a PM. I'm a BMW master tech who can do this job for a fraction of the dealer cost.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:50 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
DIY'er
Location: Greensboro, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,275
Mein Auto: 2004 545i
What would the price be??

(just curious. I am not in the area, but mine is beginning to have a little smoke if I sit for 15+ minutes and idle, then rev it up)
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:57 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
I don't want to list prices on the thread because it depends on which model it's in and if you have a check engine light on or not (secondary air faults). PM me with your info
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:04 AM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
yea you are right, somehow 4.5 L is little more to do, that valvetrain spring is looked like pain to installed after all seals are done, right? (the big spring in front the engine at intake side).
__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:05 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
If you're talking about the valvetronic intermediate lever springs, then you wouldn't have to remove them, the whole assembly comes out with the intake camshaft.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:09 PM
jim165 jim165 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 419
Mein Auto: 2008 BMW 550i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
If anyone located in the Long Island, ny area needs this repair done, send me a PM. I'm a BMW master tech who can do this job for a fraction of the dealer cost.
So, what's causing this issue? Are the valve guides and seals just crap or does the 15K mile oil change interval cause this? Thanks for your offer to help...
__________________
2008 550i Sport
Space Gray, Black Dakota, Bamboo Anthracite
SAT, Sat, Shades, Cold Wthr, Comf Access, Nav,L7, PDC, LUX V3 AEs, BMW Perf. Grilles, HID fogs, ACS Roof Spoiler, M5 Lip Spoiler, RPI GT Exhaust

Others:
2006 Corvette Conv, Z51,6sp (wife)
2007 Honda CBR1000RR Sold
2005 Triumph Daytona 650 (wife) Sold

Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
I think the seals are just no good. The smoke comes from the exhaust valve stem seals because they are running at a much higher temperature when compared to the intake side and fail earlier. The N62 and N62TU have this issue, not other BMW engines (for the most part). If the 15k oil service interval was the cause, then all engines would have this problem.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 03-11-2013, 03:22 PM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
If you're talking about the valvetronic intermediate lever springs, then you wouldn't have to remove them, the whole assembly comes out with the intake camshaft.
yes I guess it's one I don't remember seeing one on 5.0 L engine. I saw everything removed but spring is still there. But these guys don't remove valve block as I heard you do at BMW, and rebuild whole assy.
__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:09 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
Bump, for anyone in New York that needs this repair done at a reasonable cost
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:13 AM
micosan micosan is offline
Registered User
Location: TX
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlfly View Post
Well I was wrong to say about valve seals in my posts, actually it's common thing on 4.4 L engines, after reading on 7-series forum. One guy did DIY for valve seals. But what more interesting my friend's shop just got car for valve seal on X5 with 4.4 L. They tried oil separator and didn't help. I took couple pictures for 4.4L engine.
Is the area circled burnt oil in the picture? If so, is it the reason the valve seals failed? Any history on the car to indicate the oil may be the reason for seal failure? Keif from the 7 series forum suggested the oil tubes may not be providing enough oil.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ValveSealSludge.JPG
Views:	71
Size:	130.4 KB
ID:	366331  
__________________
2007 550i Sapphire Black, Prod. Date 11/2006, Sport Pkg, Comfort Access, Navigation, TX, USA
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:41 AM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: washington
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,125
Mein Auto: E60, E71, E92
Quote:
Originally Posted by micosan View Post
Is the area circled burnt oil in the picture? If so, is it the reason the valve seals failed? Any history on the car to indicate the oil may be the reason for seal failure? Keif from the 7 series forum suggested the oil tubes may not be providing enough oil.
That is normal amount of sludge baked on to hot engine, I've seen it on all type of engine from 4-banger, I6 and V8.

That's a good hypothesis, could be oil starvation at start up where most of the wear occurs (both on cam lobes, valve guide and valve seals). From what people has been saying since it only happens on this particular BMW engine is because of design flaw.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:59 AM
Vapiano's Avatar
Vapiano Vapiano is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 155
Mein Auto: Dinan E60 M5 & 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
What would the price be??

(just curious. I am not in the area, but mine is beginning to have a little smoke if I sit for 15+ minutes and idle, then rev it up)
What is your mileage?
__________________
2004 545iA, Titansilber Metallic/Black Dakota, Sport, Premium & Cold Weather Packages, Navigation, Premium Sound, Logic 7, HL Washers, Active Steering/Suspension, PDC, Adaptive Bi-Xenon,Voice Command, Beltronics STiR +, 58% Full Tint, Smoked Side Markers, 19" Hyper Silver Avant Garde M359/Michelin PSS, M5 Trunk Finisher & iDrive Controller, Dinan Performance Mods: High Flow Intake & Throttle Body, S3 Engine Software, S1 Suspension, CF Front Strut Brace and High Flow Exhaust
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
Here's a pic of the last valve stem seal job I did. You can see the difference between the old and new seal. This engine had 69k miles, the valve guides measured within spec, no wear. No more smoking after replacing just the seals.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByBimmerApp1363279253.688757.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	32.0 KB
ID:	366352  
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:17 AM
dolfan13's Avatar
dolfan13 dolfan13 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: lexington,ky usa
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 792
Mein Auto: 545i
That's the way mine looked , not really bad to the eye.I didn't measure but I've done valve seals on other cars that looked way worse not near the smoke or oil consumption as this n62.What do you think bmwoem1 ,why the wear and so much oil getting by if not that badly worn?This is such a common problem I think someone would have solved this out of curiosity by now.

Last edited by dolfan13; 03-14-2013 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:13 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is online now
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 591
Mein Auto: X3
Well, I know this for sure.... The oil leaks past the exhaust valve stem seals, not the intake side. The exhaust valves obviously run a lot hotter, which in turn cooks the exhaust valve stem seals. So, the oil is not leaking into the combustion chamber but directly into the exhaust manifolds. The spark plugs on these cars are clean. This is why the smoke is so bad out of the tail pipe. The oil is being vaporize by the heat of the manifolds, not burned up during the combustion process. The oil consumption is higher with this issue (in comparison to other engines/brands) because during a deceleration, the vacuum in the exhaust (scavenging effect) is higher than the vacuum in the intake. Valvetronic engines engines have close to 0 intake manifold vacuum when fully warmed up.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:44 PM
jim165 jim165 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 419
Mein Auto: 2008 BMW 550i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
Well, I know this for sure.... The oil leaks past the exhaust valve stem seals, not the intake side. The exhaust valves obviously run a lot hotter, which in turn cooks the exhaust valve stem seals. So, the oil is not leaking into the combustion chamber but directly into the exhaust manifolds. The spark plugs on these cars are clean. This is why the smoke is so bad out of the tail pipe. The oil is being vaporize by the heat of the manifolds, not burned up during the combustion process. The oil consumption is higher with this issue (in comparison to other engines/brands) because during a deceleration, the vacuum in the exhaust (scavenging effect) is higher than the vacuum in the intake. Valvetronic engines engines have close to 0 intake manifold vacuum when fully warmed up.
So crap, what you're saying is this seal problem is inevitable regardless of what we do to try to prevent it? And here I am, cutting my oil drain intervals in half in hopes of avoiding this issue. Man, as soon as I get this problem, I'm dumping some thick diesel engine oil in it and trading. Proof positive that BMW only engineers these cars to be leased...
__________________
2008 550i Sport
Space Gray, Black Dakota, Bamboo Anthracite
SAT, Sat, Shades, Cold Wthr, Comf Access, Nav,L7, PDC, LUX V3 AEs, BMW Perf. Grilles, HID fogs, ACS Roof Spoiler, M5 Lip Spoiler, RPI GT Exhaust

Others:
2006 Corvette Conv, Z51,6sp (wife)
2007 Honda CBR1000RR Sold
2005 Triumph Daytona 650 (wife) Sold

Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:40 PM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
Yes it will happen eventually. I will recommend do alternator bracket and after market cooling transfer pipe (http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...-PIPE-N62.html) (PRT-URO-PIPE-N62).
__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 03-15-2013, 07:07 PM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
couple pic from another 745, just recently was replaced alternator seal.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1175.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	129.3 KB
ID:	366587   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1176.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	128.8 KB
ID:	366588   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1177.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	113.2 KB
ID:	366589   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1178.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	151.7 KB
ID:	366590   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1179.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	105.6 KB
ID:	366591  

__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 03-15-2013, 07:22 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
DIY'er
Location: Greensboro, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,275
Mein Auto: 2004 545i
For those of you who have done alternator seal--do you put the new seal in dry or put some sort of sealant on it? Seems some good sealant couldn't hurt with how often they fail..
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:14 AM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
I forgot to mention, that my last post, person who owns the car has to replace catalytic because valve seals failed and oil had damaged catalytic converter. Just part itself 1,000 bucks. So if you have oil leak thru the valve seals, don't wait, fix it ASAP, otherwise another 3,000 bucks for repairs, since you have to remove all front engine subframe.

BMWOEM1, please confirm.
__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:12 AM
dolfan13's Avatar
dolfan13 dolfan13 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: lexington,ky usa
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 792
Mein Auto: 545i
I am of the opinion much of these failures are premature because of the 105c operating thermostat.Ive tried modifying a stock tstat to run cooler but not much luck yet.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:42 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
DIY'er
Location: Greensboro, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,275
Mein Auto: 2004 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolfan13 View Post
I am of the opinion much of these failures are premature because of the 105c operating thermostat.Ive tried modifying a stock tstat to run cooler but not much luck yet.
You do realize the thermostat is electronically controlled, right?

(although admittedly I don't know if it's 100% computer controlled or not. There's no telling with BMW)

Last edited by schpenxel; 03-16-2013 at 07:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 03-16-2013, 09:53 AM
Vapiano's Avatar
Vapiano Vapiano is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 155
Mein Auto: Dinan E60 M5 & 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlfly View Post
Yes it will happen eventually. I will recommend do alternator bracket and after market cooling transfer pipe (http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...-PIPE-N62.html) (PRT-URO-PIPE-N62).
The video makes it seem like a doable job for most DIYers.
__________________
2004 545iA, Titansilber Metallic/Black Dakota, Sport, Premium & Cold Weather Packages, Navigation, Premium Sound, Logic 7, HL Washers, Active Steering/Suspension, PDC, Adaptive Bi-Xenon,Voice Command, Beltronics STiR +, 58% Full Tint, Smoked Side Markers, 19" Hyper Silver Avant Garde M359/Michelin PSS, M5 Trunk Finisher & iDrive Controller, Dinan Performance Mods: High Flow Intake & Throttle Body, S3 Engine Software, S1 Suspension, CF Front Strut Brace and High Flow Exhaust
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:29 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
DIY'er
Location: Greensboro, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,275
Mein Auto: 2004 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapiano View Post
The video makes it seem like a doable job for most DIYers.
I agree, seems doable, just very time consuming and intimidating looking at first glance for most DIY'ers.

I'd be replacing most of the plastic hose crap hooked to the intake while I was at it--chances of getting all that off and back on without a crack somewhere is slim to none
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:40 AM
phlfly's Avatar
phlfly phlfly is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Leesburg, VA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,416
Mein Auto: 07' 550i
If you have willing to drive to Leesburg VA, google European Service Center (Harrison St), ask for Patric and tell him you are from vadim and you want a discount for this job ( i don't make any money on it, just know him for more then 10 years). But as I said before at least do the cooling trasfer pipe, as intake is out anyway.
__________________


BMW CCA Member, Capital Chapter
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms