X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

My thinking is more akin to Porsche's record of coming up with engines that actually do have design defects that cause catastrophic failures, including the first Cayenne with its plastic intake manifold cracking, 1999-2008 Boxster/911 engines with their intermediate shaft disintegration, earlier versions with cylinder head liner failures, earlier air cooled engines with serious valve guide wear problems, etc.

Maybe they are just being careful given customers will be "racing" these trucks. Mercedes had similar problems with their 2003-2004 E-Class drivetrain/brake components where well heeled customers with leases and warranties treated their cars more like racers than European customers usually do and had a lot of complaints/reliability issues. So they may be converting automatically to the "heavy use" guideline for oil changes.

PL

You make it seem like BMW is immune to these issues. Hell, I'd say they're doing worse than Audi, MB, and Porsche

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

You make it seem like BMW is immune to these issues. Hell, I'd say they're doing worse than Audi, MB, and Porsche

I haven't gone on record yet (story comes out in a couple weeks), but I took the brand-new M5 out on the track and its brakes all but failed after several hot laps — I didn't trust them one bit. Everyone has issues.

- Mike

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

You make it seem like BMW is immune to these issues. Hell, I'd say they're doing worse than Audi, MB, and Porsche

This is true, especially since BMW usually was low in the reliability standings for a long time. But I agree with those that say having more technical features gives a car more things that can go wrong, so its a bit hard to judge and compare automakers.

PL

Originally Posted by Emission

I haven't gone on record yet (story comes out in a couple weeks), but I took the brand-new M5 out on the track and its brakes all but failed after several hot laps — I didn't trust them one bit. Everyone has issues.

- Mike

Did it have the optional carbon ceramic option?

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Did it have the optional carbon ceramic option?

I drove an M6 with the carbons. Huge improvement. However, the M5 brake upgrade is late release so they didn't have any on hand.

Then again, how many idiots will buy the ceramics to track their M5 — I was faster around Laguna Seca in an E92 M3 DCT (I raced an M5).

- Mike

I know you don't get the X5M 50d in the US but the calipers on it are actually physically larger than the calipers on the X5M V8. Have had mine painted and ceramic pads installed. Have no problem in it stopping but can easily understand the standard X5 50i and 35d diesels having a problem with the standard 1 pot on 365mm rotors being tracked.

The only downfall with the 50d is only 20" rims will fit due to the large calipers?

Originally Posted by Emission

Of course many Porsche owners are tools and pricks, but the product is very good.

- Mike

Do you realize you are writing this on a BMW forum? BMW owners aren't exactly unfamiliar with being described in similar terms.

(For what it is worth, I have owned both marques.)

Originally Posted by Syntax

Do you realize you are writing this on a BMW forum? BMW owners aren't exactly unfamiliar with being described in similar terms.

(For what it is worth, I have owned both marques.)

Qft!

Originally Posted by watrob

I know you don't get the X5M 50d in the US but the calipers on it are actually physically larger than the calipers on the X5M V8. Have had mine painted and ceramic pads installed. Have no problem in it stopping but can easily understand the standard X5 50i and 35d diesels having a problem with the standard 1 pot on 365mm rotors being tracked.

The only downfall with the 50d is only 20" rims will fit due to the large calipers?

Those look like single-piston sliding calipers to me. The M5 has six-piston monobloc calipers, meaning they are much more powerful. However, the vehicle's weight generates simply too much heat for the braking system to absorb.

Originally Posted by Syntax

Do you realize you are writing this on a BMW forum? BMW owners aren't exactly unfamiliar with being described in similar terms.

(For what it is worth, I have owned both marques.)

For what it is worth, I currently own both. I am both a prick, and an enthusiast.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

Those look like single-piston sliding calipers to me. The M5 has six-piston monobloc calipers, meaning they are much more powerful. However, the vehicle's weight generates simply too much heat for the braking system to absorb.

For what it is worth, I currently own both. I am both a prick, and an enthusiast.

- Mike

They are 2 pot.

The prick part I understand, that's why I drive a Ferrari!

Originally Posted by watrob

They are 2 pot.

The prick part I understand, that's why I drive a Ferrari!

They look like single-piston calipers... but I have been wrong before.

- Mike

This is supposed to be coming to Australia?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/11/2...-review-video/

Originally Posted by watrob

This is supposed to be coming to Australia?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/11/2...-review-video/

I honestly have no idea. They are "challenged" to fill orders in the States right now, so I would imagine deliveries to Australia would be delayed for a year or more (plus, they lack a dealer network).

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

I honestly have no idea. They are "challenged" to fill orders in the States right now, so I would imagine deliveries to Australia would be delayed for a year or more (plus, they lack a dealer network).

- Mike

Tesla Australia said you can order now for June 2013 delivery, also they are going to make a SUV?

Originally Posted by watrob

Tesla Australia said you can order now for June 2013 delivery, also they are going to make a SUV?

Model X

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

Model X

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

- Mike

Just double checked, say S model be available June 2013?

PS. Will the US get the Porsche 4.2ltr V8 Diesel?

Mike, OK I understand that at 500 lbs heavier the T-egg didn't make the cut for your comparo matrix. Would still be interesting so see how the two compare especially with the new series engine in both. Perhaps even more interesting would be to see how the new diesel Q5 with that same engine compares to them all!

Originally Posted by watrob

PS. Will the US get the Porsche 4.2ltr V8 Diesel?

From what I have read the answer to this right now is "no"

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Mike, OK I understand that at 500 lbs heavier the T-egg didn't make the cut for your comparo matrix. Would still be interesting so see how the two compare especially with the new series engine in both. Perhaps even more interesting would be to see how the new diesel Q5 with that same engine compares to them all!

In all honesty, I deliberately left the Touareg out. Remember, these are people looking for a Porsche Cayenne Diesel. I do believe they would cross-shop an Audi, BMW and a Mercedes-Benz... but I was hesitant to include the Volkswagen in that group. Again, these are people shopping at a Porsche dealership (meaning cost - the VW's strength - isn't that big of an issue).

- Mike

Valid point! However, a stripper Cayenne diesel is not all that much more than a fully equipped T-egg oiler. My point was only that many (again, not me) consider the Cayenne to be nothing more than a rebadged T-egg. I felt that a comparo of the two together would put paid to that specious argument - or maybe not!

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Valid point! However, a stripper Cayenne diesel is not all that much more than a fully equipped T-egg oiler. My point was only that many (again, not me) consider the Cayenne to be nothing more than a rebadged T-egg. I felt that a comparo of the two together would put paid to that specious argument - or maybe not!

Lets pretend Mike did write that exact story... how many more Porsches do you think would end up in his driveway

Even if he did the comparison, the only people that would be happy enough with the T-Egg would be those more focused on value. Discerning people willing to part with their money would be able to tell enough of a difference to shell out the cash.

Not everyone values the little things as much as those with extra income, but that's the greatness of having choices.

Jay

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Valid point! However, a stripper Cayenne diesel is not all that much more than a fully equipped T-egg oiler. My point was only that many (again, not me) consider the Cayenne to be nothing more than a rebadged T-egg. I felt that a comparo of the two together would put paid to that specious argument - or maybe not!

The Cayenne and Touareg share the same basic second-gen VW Group platform, while the Q7 is still on the first-gen platform.

That said, Porsche spent a ton of money lightening the Cayenne, redesigning all body panels, redesigning the interior and retuning the suspension and brakes.

Cayenne Diesel ~ 4,795 lbs.
Touareg TDI ~ 4,974 lbs.

Drive each back-to-back, and the differences are amazing.

- Mike

Originally Posted by jashearer

Lets pretend Mike did write that exact story... how many more Porsches do you think would end up in his driveway

Even if he did the comparison, the only people that would be happy enough with the T-Egg would be those more focused on value. Discerning people willing to part with their money would be able to tell enough of a difference to shell out the cash.

Not everyone values the little things as much as those with extra income, but that's the greatness of having choices.

Jay

It is a big misconception that automotive journalists tweak their stories to please the automakers. Maybe it happens for those just trying to break into the industry... but from my position today I really have nothing to gain (and everything to lose) by kissing someone's ass. I am allowed to compare a Bentley to a Toyota, or a Porsche to a Volkswagen, if it fits the story. Nobody edits my subjective opinions, or influences my story.

I wrote a really poor review of a Cadillac XTS recently. Here is my closing paragraph:

The all-new Cadillac left us bewildered and mildly frustrated. The sedan offers a strong platform, impressive interior, innovative electronics and a superb ride, yet the engine and transmission are serious shortcomings. The XTS may be an interesting alternative for those accustomed to the Lexus ES350, Toyota Avalon and Buick LaCrosse, but in its current state the new luxury sedan won't do much to raise the image of the brand – and that is what the automaker really needed. Sadly, the all-new 2013 Cadillac XTS falls short of being the highly anticipated, and much-needed, "Cadillac of Cadillacs."

Guess what? Today, Cadillac is putting a brand-new CTS-V in my driveway for a week (it arrives in 30 minutes).

Like I said, the person walking into a Porsche showroom is buying both the performance and the BADGE. They are not likely to be looking for a Volkswagen, or trying to save a few bucks.

- Mike

I didn't say you pulled punches on Porsche I was inferring that you weren't writing articles trying to run down the value of a badge.

Two very different concepts. I've read quite a few of your reviews and find them to be good, unbiased, and thoughtful. That us what keeps your driveway full.

Please don't think I meant anything about kissing ass.

Jay

Originally Posted by jashearer

I didn't say you pulled punches on Porsche I was inferring that you weren't writing articles trying to run down the value of a badge.

Two very different concepts. I've read quite a few of your reviews and find them to be good, unbiased, and thoughtful. That us what keeps your driveway full.

Please don't think I meant anything about kissing ass.

Jay

My bad. Sorry I jumped on you. I get accused all the time of sleeping with the automakers (some are quite attractive, so I don't always argue). Mostly, by people who want my job.

Being honest, and credible, is very important. Oh, this just arrived a few minutes ago (see below). MSRP of $72,000!

- Mike