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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #426  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:20 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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For the longest time I thought the VW looked better than the Porsche but in recent years/changes, my opinion has switched. If you are not picky about installed options then the Porsche is not ridiculously more expensive. Before I drove the Porsche I thought I'd have to have PASM and that in itself adds a lot of money. The one I drove lacked it and rode/drove great which in turn made me realize I'd not have to spend as much as I initially thought. But I seem to be a rarity amongst online owners because I really don't care about most of the options available for cars.
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Last edited by Snipe656; 10-13-2012 at 08:21 AM.
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  #427  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
U235, as Mike confirms above the new Porsche Cayenne and the new (MY '13) VW T-egg have the same Gen II VA(P)G diesel engine (and drive train) so you would be getting the same diesel in a similar car for a ton less coin. Now, it would not have "the badge" but if you are just interested in the car itself -- might be worth a look. The Executive series T-egg has a very handsome leather interior too. Just a thought. I suspect the revised Q7 will also get the Gen II engine too when it is redone in 'MY 14 too. The VW interiors are very close to the superb Audi interior offerings too -- and those are almost the industry standard for luxury.
MY13 Q7 TDI got the new diesel engine also.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-diesel-engine
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  #428  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
For the longest time I thought the VW looked better than the Porsche but in recent years/changes, my opinion has switched. If you are not picky about installed options then the Porsche is not ridiculously more expensive. Before I drove the Porsche I thought I'd have to have PASM and that in itself adds a lot of money. The one I drove lacked it and rode/drove great which in turn made me realize I'd not have to spend as much as I initially thought. But I seem to be a rarity amongst online owners because I really don't care about most of the options available for cars.
Agree. The last gen Cayenne was an awkward looking thing and the T2 was always a great looking SUV. Now it is switched. Porsche has the upper-hand, as it should.



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  #429  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:28 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I though see some brand new Porsches that look better than other brand ones. Guess I am not observant enough to figure out what is different but it is something to do with the front ends.
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  #430  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:34 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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AU thanks for the info on the Q7. Makes sense to keep things the same. Now then what about the Q5 TDI -- will that get the 240 hp Gen II oiler too? That would be really interesting. I like both the T-egg and Cayenne, the Cayenne somewhat better and I do like their interior. However if you can stay with or close to the base version the cost may not be prohibitive -- but there is a huge lead time in ordering one and getting one (100 days or more). This may ease up but the cars I have seen that are available now are optioned up to at least $75K and that is a bit too high for me.
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  #431  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:35 AM
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Mike, I can't wait to see the Autoblog review on the '13 T-egg TDI!
I'll see if I can get one. On a related note, I've got a '13 GL350 BlueTEC coming in two weeks... I'm looking forward to it.

- Mike

P.S. - How come nobody is giving me hell about bashing on the M5 6MT?
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  #432  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
U235, as Mike confirms above the new Porsche Cayenne and the new (MY '13) VW T-egg have the same Gen II VA(P)G diesel engine (and drive train) so you would be getting the same diesel in a similar car for a ton less coin. Now, it would not have "the badge" but if you are just interested in the car itself -- might be worth a look. The Executive series T-egg has a very handsome leather interior too. Just a thought. I suspect the revised Q7 will also get the Gen II engine too when it is redone in 'MY 14 too. The VW interiors are very close to the superb Audi interior offerings too -- and those are almost the industry standard for luxury.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I did test drive the MB and Audi Diesel options before picking the X5. The steering and overall dynamics are incomparable between the BMW and the Mercedes/Audi products, so I picked the BMW. It was also partially driven by the fact that I traded in my E90 M3 and VW TDI for the X5, so I thought I would want something sportier to compensate for the loss of the M3. It turned out, the X5 did not satisfy my needs of being sporty, or to be honest, even luxurious, so I ended up buying the Audi S4 Prestige (which on a side note is considerably more luxurious than the 3-series, and I'm really happy with the overall S4 package so my BMW loyalty is at risk now).

All that said, I still prefer sportier vehicles, and even though there is platform sharing with VW and Audi, I have to imagine that Porsche's suspension and steering systems are either heavily modified/tuned or entirely different. While the engine is the heart of a vehicle, in most common luxury and entry-level sports cars (exotics and M/AMG/S/RS types excluded), the engine only represents a small percentage of the cost of the car. It's the sum of all the parts, and although I haven't driven the Cayenne Diesel, I imagine it shines over the Audi/VW siblings which I have driven. If it doesn't, then I will rethink my strategy, and maybe wait for the next generation X5 and cross my fingers they get their act together on quality. I had a 2011 E90 328i loaner while my X5 was getting the emissions recall, the plastics and assembly quality is far superior on the base 3 series. Base price of 328i loaner = $~35k, my X5 had a sticker of $67k; it's unacceptable in my mind.

Last edited by U235; 10-13-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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  #433  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:38 PM
jerryjash jerryjash is offline
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Cayenne vs. X5 35d

I have enjoyed both my 2011 and 2012 X35d.. No problems at all...I ordered a Cayenne July 12 and should arrive by Nov. 1st..I drove a Cayenne Diesel yesterday..Paint was the first thing I noticed as I walked up to the car.. Much better than X5.. No orange peel..had a lot of depth... Interior radiated much higher Quality.. Seats were 100% better and more form fitting....Don't much like the key on the left of steering wheel. Engine is much quieter than X5.. I do not like the instrument lay-out with the tach larger and front and center. I prefer the spedo larger and in the center.. Most do not drive by the tach in this type of vehicle... The X5 is faster in all respects and much more noise.. The Cayenne is very quiet..The Cayenne is much more refined and better thought out..How much more is the Cayenne worth to you? The one I ordered stickered for 63105.00 bought for 56894.00...With 6380.00 worth of options.. I think I paid about 5000.00 more than a 2013 X535d would have cost me with the same options. I doubt there will be any discounts on the 2014 X5 35d...I plan on selling the Cayenne and buying a 2014 X5 35d as soon as they are available to order..
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  #434  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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dalekressin dalekressin is offline
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I have a little over 2,000 miles on my Cayenne Diesel and it is surprisingly efficient!
I too was tremendously surprised to see the Diesel in the dealership.

I like the X5 a lot and the Cayenne even more.
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  #435  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryjash View Post
..How much more is the Cayenne worth to you? The one I ordered stickered for 63105.00 bought for 56894.00...With 6380.00 worth of options.. I think I paid about 5000.00 more than a 2013 X535d would have cost me with the same options. I doubt there will be any discounts on the 2014 X5 35d...I plan on selling the Cayenne and buying a 2014 X5 35d as soon as they are available to order..
That is an impressive discount to me. I can't ever manage to get a Porsche dealer to go down on cost. Actually is one reason why I have not bought one in such a long time.
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  #436  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:51 PM
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dalekressin dalekressin is offline
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I'll see if I can get one. On a related note, I've got a '13 GL350 BlueTEC coming in two weeks... I'm looking forward to it.

- Mike

P.S. - How come nobody is giving me hell about bashing on the M5 6MT?
Mike
It is difficult to challenge your report of the M5 manual vs DCT. It is what it is.
The GT-R seems to run very quickly "A" mode without driver inputs from the "M" mode.
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  #437  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:13 PM
jerryjash jerryjash is offline
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When I made my deal in early June (actually placed my order in July), I don't think some dealers thought the Cayenne Diesel would be an in demand vehicle. I doubt very much that I could get the same deal today since the Cayenne is in limited supply.. 3-4 months to order one unless you want to buy one with a sticker of 70,000- 80,000 that is on the ground.. I don't think Porsche dealers order cars for stock, I thiink they take what Porsche sends them and they are optioned out thru the ceiling..
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  #438  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:20 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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The Porsche cars on lots down here are not optioned through the ceiling. But does not take a ton of options on a Porsche to jack the price way up.
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  #439  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:34 PM
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gresch gresch is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
That is an impressive discount to me. I can't ever manage to get a Porsche dealer to go down on cost. Actually is one reason why I have not bought one in such a long time.
I agree, not to mention trying to build one via their website is a frustrating experience. To some, having that many options might be preferable, but having to decide if I want the underside of the exterior mirrors painted in the body color is ridiculous.

Last edited by gresch; 10-13-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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  #440  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:57 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I agree, not to mention trying to build one via their website is a frustrating experience. To some, having that many options might be preferable, but having to decide if I want the underside of the exterior mirrors painted in the body color is ridiculous.
It is overwhelming and sadly most of their salesmen I have dealt with do not seem to know the options well which makes it more annoying.
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  #441  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:59 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryjash View Post
"....Don't much like the key on the left of steering wheel ...I do not like the instrument lay-out with the tach larger and front and center..."
Well, that is what makes it a Porsche!

Porsche has always had the key on the left side, it was placed there for a quick traditional race start.

Porsche always puts the tach dead center, as the engine is the heart of the vehicle.

- Mike

P.S. - Porsche has told me they have no plans to ever go to a push start/stop button, as they feel the need to "turn the ignition" is part of the experience. We'll see how long that lasts (the engineers of the 918 are already begging for a start/stop button as it weighs less than an ignition socket)!
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Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #442  
Old 10-13-2012, 06:00 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Originally Posted by dalekressin View Post
Mike
It is difficult to challenge your report of the M5 manual vs DCT. It is what it is.
The GT-R seems to run very quickly "A" mode without driver inputs from the "M" mode.
Your garage rocks.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as West Coast Editor for Autoblog!
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  #443  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:14 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Well, that is what makes it a Porsche!

Porsche has always had the key on the left side, it was placed there for a quick traditional race start.

Porsche always puts the tach dead center, as the engine is the heart of the vehicle.

- Mike

P.S. - Porsche has told me they have no plans to ever go to a push start/stop button, as they feel the need to "turn the ignition" is part of the experience. We'll see how long that lasts (the engineers of the 918 are already begging for a start/stop button as it weighs less than an ignition socket)!
I don't think the 928 had the key on the left. Not certain the 924 or 944 did either. I could be wrong since probably been over 10 years since I have been in any of those.
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  #444  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:18 PM
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dalekressin dalekressin is offline
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Your garage rocks.

- Mike
Thanks Mike, but then again we have PMd back n forth and I do appreciate the advice.
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  #445  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:33 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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I don't think the 928 had the key on the left. Not certain the 924 or 944 did either. I could be wrong since probably been over 10 years since I have been in any of those.
The 924/944 were Volkswagens...

The 928 doesn't ever count.

Right you are on both vehicles!

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as West Coast Editor for Autoblog!
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  #446  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:38 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
The 924/944 were Volkswagens...

The 928 doesn't ever count.

Right you are on both vehicles!

- Mike
heh ... Guess you are right. We owned a 924 and for what it cost new and how cars were at te time it was not all that bad. We owned several 928 models, no one ever gives that model much love
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  #447  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:41 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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heh ... Guess you are right. We owned a 924 and for what it cost new and how cars were at te time it was not all that bad. We owned several 928 models, no one ever gives that model much love
Yeah, for some odd reason the 924/944 and 928 don't get nearly the love of the 911. Not bad cars. In fact, I know guys who still race all three!

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as West Coast Editor for Autoblog!
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  #448  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:51 PM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Contrary to the post here, the Cayenne engine IS slightly different. Lighter weigh components and a few "lessons learned" from their audi counterparts. There are 4 diesel Cayenne's around here under that $70K mark so you can get one off the lots. Discounts are another thing but (so far) I have had a dealer offer me a decent discount but not as good as Jerrys if I were to order it. Not certain what discount they would do for cars on the lot. IMO the dash on the new Cayenne is "head & shoulders" above the Q7. The Q7 is bigger & slower than the Porsche. Not certain about how much heavier the BMW is but the body style on the x5d is EOL (End of Life) and have been burnt on resale with a discontinued BMW body style in the past ('97 7-series) so that alone may keep me away from the BMW even though it looks like I could get the X5d for about $5K less comparably equipped. Thing is...I don't actually NEED a large SUV. The 'soon to be" smaller version of the Cayenne (the Macan) may be a PERFECT fit for me. That and the fact that it's MSRP is suppose to be about $10K less than the Cayenne may also put it into the financial category that I prefer (Payments under $600/month with $15K down). As others have pointed out, both the Q7 & the Cayenne were quieter than the BMW.

Suspension Quote from Porsche site - "Consistent lightweight construction e. g. through the increased use of aluminum results in improved driving dynamics, greater fuel economy and enhanced comfort."

I HATE, HATE, HATE the way the Audi Q7 headrest FORCE your head forward. It was a "feature" on almost EVERY Volvo since 2000 and I CAN'T STAND IT! Supposedly, this is some kind of safety feature for keeping your head in the correct position for a crash. I can understand that but (to me), it is irritating as hell as it forces me into an unnatural position...while driving and since that is what I intend to do (vs. crashing), the Q7 has pretty much been eliminated (just this past Thursday). I DO have a very long torso (for my height) so my head is a good bit higher than most (Sitting in a plane, I am usually 'taller" than almost all people 3 inches taller than me when standing up). The headrest is not an issue for my wife nor is it an issue for most people under 6'2" tall but if you have a long torso or are over 6'0" make CERTAIN you drive one before ordering one.
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GONE - '06 750Li Sapphire Black/Creme&Black (Loadeddddd)

Last edited by ndabunka; 10-15-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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  #449  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:06 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
Contrary to the post here, the Cayenne engine IS slightly different. Lighter weigh components and a few "lessons learned" from their audi counterparts. ... The Q7 is bigger & slower than the Porsche. Not certain about how much heavier the BMW is but the body style on the x5d is EOL (End of Life) and have been burnt on resale with a discontinued BMW body style in the past ('97 7-series) so that alone may keep me away from the BMW even though it looks like I could get the X5d for about $5K less comparably equipped. ...
I HATE, HATE, HATE the way the Audi Q7 headrest FORCE your head forward. It was a "feature" on almost EVERY Volvo since 2000 and I CAN'T STAND IT!
We have said the Cayenne Diesel has a different engine all along. However, all three (Cayenne Diesel, Touareg TDI and Q7 TDI) will have the identical powerplant for the '13 MY.

The Q7 is also EOL.

Try the new (refreshed) '13 Buick Enclave, it has articulating head restraints to solve the issue.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as West Coast Editor for Autoblog!
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  #450  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:16 PM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
The Q7 is also EOL.
Try the new (refreshed) '13 Buick Enclave, it has articulating head restraints to solve the issue.

- Mike
I don't think I will EVER own a GM vehicle. I just can't get past all the plasticy-looking compartments, controls & the monolithic center consoles that seem to float in mid-air rather than being integrated into the dash like the european alternatives have been for years now. The sport/comfort seats in my 7-series are PERFECT which is one of the reasons the X5 is still in the mix...


PPS - Bought the X5d from the local dealer earlier today. I was not able to get the kind of offer from Porsche that others on here had gotten. I did appreciate the salesman calling and telling me (honestly) the best he would be able to do and that in and of itself will keep him in my rolodex for the next time we are car shopping 9likey for the wife in about a year). The Cayenne Diesel was already about $5K more than this X5 in a similar configuration. Once the possibility of discount was reduced, the final difference was closer to $8K between the two trucks. I did LOVE the new Cayenne (NAVI imbedded in the speed control cluster, SIGNIFICANTLY quieter engine, exceptional paint, Newer body style, etc).
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'12 X5d Sapphire/Black/Bamboo, Sport (ZAP), Premium (ZPP) & Premium Sound(ZPS) packages: 20" 214's, OEM Hitch
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GONE - '06 750Li Sapphire Black/Creme&Black (Loadeddddd)

Last edited by ndabunka; 10-19-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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