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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #726  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:19 AM
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Many say you have no need for AWD, but it certainly helps when most don't even realize it (e.g., preventing wheelspin while making a sharp right turn and pulling into fast traffic). When I drive cars with/without back-to-back (CL550/CL550 4MATIC) I realize how much help AWD does "behind the scenes." Yes, there is an added weight and fuel economy penalty, but it is reassuring to have AWD standing at the ready.

- Mke
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  #727  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:32 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Many say you have no need for AWD, but it certainly helps when most don't even realize it (e.g., preventing wheelspin while making a sharp right turn and pulling into fast traffic). When I drive cars with/without back-to-back (CL550/CL550 4MATIC) I realize how much help AWD does "behind the scenes." Yes, there is an added weight and fuel economy penalty, but it is reassuring to have AWD standing at the ready.

- Mke
I think this greatly depends on how much power the vehicle you are driving has. I own a few trucks and all 2wd and none anything I'd classify as terribly powerful and it just is never an issue even with the extremely light back end. The only one that sometimes is an issue is the one with a Ford big block under the hood and really that is just on wet roads and if not thinking about how hard you hit the throttle when leaving a turn from a stand still and the thin tires it has is not helping that situation. For some reason I just don't see it being a major issue in how the power comes on in the diesel SUVs I have driven if they were in fact 2wd. I never have driven a CL550 but I have driven a CLS550 and ML550, their power levels sure seemed magnitudes more in my face than the diesel SUVs I have driven.
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  #728  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:46 AM
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Emission Emission is offline
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I think this greatly depends on how much power the vehicle you are driving has. I own a few trucks and all 2wd and none anything I'd classify as terribly powerful and it just is never an issue even with the extremely light back end. The only one that sometimes is an issue is the one with a Ford big block under the hood and really that is just on wet roads and if not thinking about how hard you hit the throttle when leaving a turn from a stand still and the thin tires it has is not helping that situation. For some reason I just don't see it being a major issue in how the power comes on in the diesel SUVs I have driven if they were in fact 2wd. I never have driven a CL550 but I have driven a CLS550 and ML550, their power levels sure seemed magnitudes more in my face than the diesel SUVs I have driven.
I'll agree.

I was going to use an A4/A4 Quattro as an example, but that is FWD/AWD and it's a whole different ballgame.

It does depend of power level... but I still argue that AWD (proper AWD, not systems from Honda, Volvo, etc... that only send power when needed) is better than driving a single axle.

Note the E63 AMG just went AWD... how long before BMW follows?

- Mike
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  #729  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
I'll agree.

I was going to use an A4/A4 Quattro as an example, but that is FWD/AWD and it's a whole different ballgame.

It does depend of power level... but I still argue that AWD (proper AWD, not systems from Honda, Volvo, etc... that only send power when needed) is better than driving a single axle.

Note the E63 AMG just went AWD... how long before BMW follows?

- Mike
I never meant to imply they are not better. My point all along has been it is just a feature I could care less about having in any of these diesel SUVs. Now if I had a choice between AWD and FWD on the same SUV or car then I'd pick AWD. For example I have read comments from people that the new CLA Mercedes is a FWD car, that right there kills my interest in it but then I have read the AMG version would be AWD and that sparks some interest. Or as someone else mentioned if the Blutec GLK actually makes it here and if they would later bring the RWD version(I did not know it even existed) of that then my interest would be peaked over it but AWD in that little not so powerful SUV to me is just not a want or need.
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  #730  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:59 AM
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I never meant to imply they are not better. My point all along has been it is just a feature I could care less about having in any of these diesel SUVs. Now if I had a choice between AWD and FWD on the same SUV or car then I'd pick AWD. For example I have read comments from people that the new CLA Mercedes is a FWD car, that right there kills my interest in it but then I have read the AMG version would be AWD and that sparks some interest. Or as someone else mentioned if the Blutec GLK actually makes it here and if they would later bring the RWD version(I did not know it even existed) of that then my interest would be peaked over it but AWD in that little not so powerful SUV to me is just not a want or need.
My jaw dropped when I learned the CLA was FWD.

My co-worker just sent me an e-mail and is driving it today (in Europe).

- Mike
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  #731  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:04 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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My jaw dropped when I learned the CLA was FWD.

My co-worker just sent me an e-mail and is driving it today (in Europe).

- Mike
My jaw dropped as well. I had not been following any of the releases about it because really figured it must be too small of a car for our needs. When I heard it is FWD is when I started to pay more attention to the Mercedes propaganda to the general public about it and honestly still not noticed where they point out that "feature".
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  #732  
Old 03-03-2013, 08:04 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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I never have driven a CL550 but I have driven a CLS550 and ML550, their power levels sure seemed magnitudes more in my face than the diesel SUVs I have driven.
They better be faster. They have significantly more displacement plus 2 more cylinders. The V8TT in the CLS550 is a beast. No match for a 6 cylinder diesel.
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  #733  
Old 03-03-2013, 08:07 PM
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I was going to use an A4/A4 Quattro as an example, but that is FWD/AWD and it's a whole different ballgame.
Audi is a good example for this. Notice how they only offer FWD on the base models, but AWD is needed on the high performance models, such as S4, S6, RS6, R8, etc.

Even AWD wasn't useful, Porsche wouldn't be offering it either. They are possibly the most "sporty" mainstream brand out there. Even they put AWD in their high performance models (911 Turbo, Panamera Turbo, etc)
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  #734  
Old 03-03-2013, 08:28 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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My jaw dropped when I learned the CLA was FWD.

My co-worker just sent me an e-mail and is driving it today (in Europe).

- Mike
Why? The A series was always odd. If I recall, this was the line of the car where traveling auto journalist flipped over and caused Mercedes an expensive recall. That was many years ago and likely two generations. Still, this was never a driver car in my mind and always an ugly ducking until now.

I am more sad to hear about rumor of BMW offering FWD in future 1 series.

A properly implemented sporty AWD can give you very good grip and turn like you don't believe. I am just not sure if auto journalist really talk about the differences in detail. I for one would like to know more detail on Porsche vs. BMW AWD without any discussion on off road!
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  #735  
Old 03-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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Audi is a good example for this. Notice how they only offer FWD on the base models, but AWD is needed on the high performance models, such as S4, S6, RS6, R8, etc.

Even AWD wasn't useful, Porsche wouldn't be offering it either. They are possibly the most "sporty" mainstream brand out there. Even they put AWD in their high performance models (911 Turbo, Panamera Turbo, etc)
AWD is always good for an argument with a circle of journalists. While it delivers excellent lap times and 0-60 launches (all of the sub-3 cars I have drive have had AWD), it does remove steering feel and some of the "fun" from the whole driving experience. The Lamborghini Aventador is the first AWD I have ever driven that would hang its tail like a RWD car (the other exception is the Porsche GT3 R Hybrid, with its electric motors on the front axle).

AWD is invaluable for inclement weather, and I really like it for a daily driver, but I still prefer my track cars RWD.

- Mike
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  #736  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:22 AM
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Or taking it in another direction -- no pun intended -- think about Subie. Nothing but AWD cars, high end (for them) or low end -- all the same. And I don't think anyone would dispute (well, almost no one) that the WRX STI is indeed a "performance" car. For the driving I now do, and the places that I drive, RWD is just fine. Yes, AWD handles better in the deluge, but not that much better unless you are pushing the envelope, and I don't. We may yet be seeing a BMW FWD when the new X1 comes out built on the Mini platform too. At least the GLK is RWD based.

Last edited by UncleJ; 03-04-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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  #737  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:42 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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If I still lived in New England AWD would be a no-brainer. Otherwise, its an extra expense, more to break, and gets more oil dollars to places I don't want them to go. FWD is almost as good anyway in the bad weather.

As for "performance" cars, i can understand the uber-fast ultra cars needing it, but anything less than a Lamborghini may be adequately driven in RWD IMO.

PL
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  #738  
Old 03-04-2013, 07:16 PM
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I did same as tribecax5. Bought a used 35d while waiting for the new x5, acura mdx new model. you might also drive a toureg diesel. Nice car but 62K for the pimp daddy loaded version (but still 10-15k less than a comparably equipped cayenne diesel).
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  #739  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:15 PM
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Or taking it in another direction -- no pun intended -- think about Subie. Nothing but AWD cars, high end (for them) or low end -- all the same. And I don't think anyone would dispute (well, almost no one) that the WRX STI is indeed a "performance" car. For the driving I now do, and the places that I drive, RWD is just fine. Yes, AWD handles better in the deluge, but not that much better unless you are pushing the envelope, and I don't. We may yet be seeing a BMW FWD when the new X1 comes out built on the Mini platform too. At least the GLK is RWD based.
Subaru BRZ = RWD. They broke from tradition!

- Mike
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Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #740  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:19 AM
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Forgot about that one! My bad. Not a rebadged job either because Subie developed it and Toyota (Scion) joined in. Flat four too! I wonder if the tuners can get it up with the Cayman?
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  #741  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:48 AM
zorba1331 zorba1331 is offline
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Hi everyone, new to the forum and found this thread was exactly what I was looking for, but I still have a few questions.

I currently drive an '09 Touareg (love it in spite of it being somewhat of a lemon) and am looking to get a new vehicle for my 40th birthday in May. My husband says I can get whatever I want. I will, however, not get crazy with the pricing and will not go into the $80's for a vehicle. My emotional financial comfort zone won't allow it I am leaning towards a Cayenne or a BMW X5. I still think I can get pretty nice versions of either one, right?

After reading the forum a bit I understand that there is a new X5 (F15) coming out in the fall and I really feel like I want to wait to see that. The pics look great. I was at the Porsche dealer briefly the other day and by the sounds of it, I would have to order one anyway and I would be waiting months regardless. I don't mind. I like my T-reg and am in no big hurry.

The question I mainly have after reading this entire thread is: why diesel? I never considered buying diesel before, but it seems that most in this thread think it is more desirable than gas. Other than fuel economy, what are the advantages to buying a diesel either Cayenne or BMW?

Thanks in advance.
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  #742  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:58 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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You would just about hit your target of $80K with a new diesel Cayenne -- out the door price with the options you would probably want. The new diesel X5 would be about $10K or more less given all the discounts etc that BMW offers and Porsche does not. OTOH you may want to rethink your want for a diesel. My wife (for example) hates diesel. She can't abide the smell -- which is far more clinging and aromatic than gasoline, and has a tendency to "follow you in" the car when refueling. You may be happier with a gasser which of course will save you money up front. So unless you are towing, or making very long trips (where a diesel really shines) it doesn't make a lot of sense to get one. Short trips around down are where a gasser (or hybrid for that matter -- VW and Porsche both have nice hybrids) does the job best. Others of course will disagree but these are my thoughts. Oh yes, Happy Birthday, and you don't look a day over 29!

Last edited by UncleJ; 03-08-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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  #743  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:18 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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You would just about hit your target of $80K with a new diesel Cayenne -- out the door price with the options you would probably want. The new diesel X5 would be about $10K or more less given all the discounts etc that BMW offers and Porsche does not. OTOH you may want to rethink your want for a diesel. My wife (for example) hates diesel. She can't abide the smell -- which is far more clinging and aromatic than gasoline, and has a tendency to "follow you in" the car when refueling. You may be happier with a gasser which of course will save you money up front. So unless you are towing, or making very long trips (where a diesel really shines) it doesn't make a lot of sense to get one. Short trips around down are where a gasser (or hybrid for that matter -- VW and Porsche both have nice hybrids) does the job best. Others of course will disagree but these are my thoughts. Oh yes, Happy Birthday, and you don't look a day over 29!
The diesel Cayennes I was considering and how I wanted them were not $80k. They actually were not substantially more than the X5 diesels I considered but the BMW dealers I went to were not offering $10k in discounts to me, I forget the number but I think it was around $5k. The Porsche's on the lots had a very small discount, I think $2k but I delayed too long and by the time I made a decision all the ones still on the lots had a lot more options and more money of course.
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  #744  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:54 AM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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The question I mainly have after reading this entire thread is: why diesel? I never considered buying diesel before, but it seems that most in this thread think it is more desirable than gas. Other than fuel economy, what are the advantages to buying a diesel either Cayenne or BMW?

Thanks in advance.
Modern diesels are totally different from what most people believe they are; i.e. slow, noisy, polluting and smelly. My wife has loved the two modern diesels she has owned - a 2010 VW Jetta Sportwagen and her new 2012 BMW X5 35d. I like them too.

The main reason for us is the high engine torque at low rpm which gives us usable and enjoyable power at normal driving speeds. Going uphill with a car loaded to the hilt your car will resemble a mountain goat climbing efortlessly no matter how steep the hill or how much stuff you have in it. Passing at speed from say 50 to 80 mph also feels great with instant power and great pick up. The noise is minimal, they are totally clean with no black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe and they don't smell . . at all.

Negatives of our X5 diesel: it is noisy compared to other modern diesels like the VW we had before and the Mercedes ML diesel we test drove. The steering feels and it is heavy at low speeds - this is something we are now used to and we don't notice it anymore.

My 2 advice on your purchase: if you buy the Cayenne don't get the light steering at parking lot speed option (I forget it's name). I test drove a Cayenne GTS about a month ago and it felt like an American car with power steering from the 60's - SOOO light and detached.
If you get an X5 diesel or not, the Adaptive Drive option is an absolute MUST. Do a search and read about it, it's definitely worth the high price BMW charges for it. It is not listed as an option for the diesel on the BMW site but your dealer can order it for you. Last but not least, buy the current X5 before they stop making it. It's a proven vehicle where most if not all the bugs have been taken care of, and IMO it looks much better than the photos/drawings/etc. of the upcoming X5 that I've seen.

Last edited by 1HOT BMR; 03-08-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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  #745  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:40 PM
zorba1331 zorba1331 is offline
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You would just about hit your target of $80K with a new diesel Cayenne -- out the door price with the options you would probably want. The new diesel X5 would be about $10K or more less given all the discounts etc that BMW offers and Porsche does not. OTOH you may want to rethink your want for a diesel. My wife (for example) hates diesel. She can't abide the smell -- which is far more clinging and aromatic than gasoline, and has a tendency to "follow you in" the car when refueling. You may be happier with a gasser which of course will save you money up front. So unless you are towing, or making very long trips (where a diesel really shines) it doesn't make a lot of sense to get one. Short trips around down are where a gasser (or hybrid for that matter -- VW and Porsche both have nice hybrids) does the job best. Others of course will disagree but these are my thoughts. Oh yes, Happy Birthday, and you don't look a day over 29!
Thanks for the reply. I don't have my heart set on diesel at all. I actually had never considered it until, it appeared, that most people in this thread preferred it. It seems like it is less money than the S, but a little more than the base model. I figured it might allow me to get the options that I want while staying within my emotional budget.
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  #746  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:04 PM
zorba1331 zorba1331 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
Modern diesels are totally different from what most people believe they are; i.e. slow, noisy, polluting and smelly. My wife has loved the two modern diesels she has owned - a 2010 VW Jetta Sportwagen and her new 2012 BMW X5 35d. I like them too.

The main reason for us is the high engine torque at low rpm which gives us usable and enjoyable power at normal driving speeds. Going uphill with a car loaded to the hilt your car will resemble a mountain goat climbing efortlessly no matter how steep the hill or how much stuff you have in it. Passing at speed from say 50 to 80 mph also feels great with instant power and great pick up. The noise is minimal, they are totally clean with no black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe and they don't smell . . at all.

Negatives of our X5 diesel: it is noisy compared to other modern diesels like the VW we had before and the Mercedes ML diesel we test drove. The steering feels and it is heavy at low speeds - this is something we are now used to and we don't notice it anymore.

My 2 advice on your purchase: if you buy the Cayenne don't get the light steering at parking lot speed option (I forget it's name). I test drove a Cayenne GTS about a month ago and it felt like an American car with power steering from the 60's - SOOO light and detached.
If you get an X5 diesel or not, the Adaptive Drive option is an absolute MUST. Do a search and read about it, it's definitely worth the high price BMW charges for it. It is not listed as an option for the diesel on the BMW site but your dealer can order it for you. Last but not least, buy the current X5 before they stop making it. It's a proven vehicle where most if not all the bugs have been taken care of, and IMO it looks much better than the photos/drawings/etc. of the upcoming X5 that I've seen.
Great. Thanks for the post. Very helpful.

I actually like the pics of the new X5--looks like a combo between a T-reg and a Cayenne. That appeals to me. I am a bit concerned about getting it straight away though without having the kinks worked out.
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  #747  
Old 03-09-2013, 07:40 PM
georgejm georgejm is offline
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I have a 2012 X5 diesel and love it, and have AD and love it. The diesel fits my world of driving, great pick up light to light in the city, easy power on interstates and I pull two boats and own an equestrian center so I move horses as well. I ordered the wife a Cayenne diesel which will be in next week I think, pretty much loaded with PASM and air shocks. Will be fun to see and feel the difference. Funny that I will now have three vehicles, all diesels, I would have never thought that I would end up that way.
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  #748  
Old 03-10-2013, 06:38 AM
zorba1331 zorba1331 is offline
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I have a 2012 X5 diesel and love it, and have AD and love it. The diesel fits my world of driving, great pick up light to light in the city, easy power on interstates and I pull two boats and own an equestrian center so I move horses as well. I ordered the wife a Cayenne diesel which will be in next week I think, pretty much loaded with PASM and air shocks. Will be fun to see and feel the difference. Funny that I will now have three vehicles, all diesels, I would have never thought that I would end up that way.
How long will it have taken you to get your Cayenne?

That sounds like me, I have never even considered getting a diesel until I read this thread. I like some spring off the lights as well and do a little interstate driving, but mostly drive locally but like to feel like I have an SUV with a little zip. Sounds like your BMW has that. I would love to hear your feedback of the difference between the BMW and the Cayenne.
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  #749  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:03 AM
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Mein Auto: BMW X5 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1331 View Post
How long will it have taken you to get your Cayenne?

That sounds like me, I have never even considered getting a diesel until I read this thread. I like some spring off the lights as well and do a little interstate driving, but mostly drive locally but like to feel like I have an SUV with a little zip. Sounds like your BMW has that. I would love to hear your feedback of the difference between the BMW and the Cayenne.
I will post my thoughts on the difference between the two of them after a couple of weeks of ownership as to get some seat time. On the expense side the BMW will win out for sure as Porsche is not as friendly with discounts, trades and service. The Porsche diesel oil change is at 5000 mi and BMW is at least double that and BMW is NO CHARGE. Porsche is as expensive as raising a child, it never ends so you better really enjoy it....every day.

Oh, about three months when times are good for orders unless you find something on their lot.
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  #750  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:17 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Mein Auto: '06 X3
90 to 100 days is what my dealer here in the valley told me for a Cayenne diesel order. He also said they were selling everything they could get their hands on too. I was also quite impressed with the new V6 gasser Cayenne. The 8 speed transmission, and lighter weight seems to give it a lot of punch off the line and truthfully it handled better than the "S" in city traffic, quicker and more responsive -- which amazed me. Beautiful cars and really the top of the line in my view.
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