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F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current)
The 5 Series Gran Turismo -- now available in the USA as a 535i, 550i and 550i xDrive model.

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  #1  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:45 PM
daders daders is offline
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GT questions

Hello all!
I've been reading the forums, am considering GT vs X6 and have some questions.

After test driving both (neither had Dynamic Handling (DH) but GT had Dynamic damper control) the wife and I really liked the X6 drive. The engine response was immediate and the brakes grabbed much quicker than GT (not that one was actually faster or braked shorter, just the sensation that the X6 was more responsive). in comfort mode the GT felt "squishy" - meaning, I had to depress the pedals much further before same response. Sport mode was better, but still not the same. We feel that long term we would appreciate the "luxury" suspension feel of the GT over the X6, but...

1. Can the GT's sport mode be tweaked to match the X6 wrto the engine response?

2. Can DH package vehicles offer more Sport modification vs non-DH equipped vehicles? Our dealer has no DH equipped vehicles and our CA claimed most drivers would not feel the difference unless track driving, comments?

3. We are looking to fork mount a bike (like a roof rack) inside, anyone try that in a GT? Wish it had latching rails like the X6 or new 3GT... If I could fit the bike upright inside then the GT would win hands down as it would easily accommodate our luggage, golf bag ;-), bike and 75lb Golden Retriever.

4. Anyone know if 2014 LCI updates affect the hood to more closely match the 5 series sedans? Specifically we really like the "creases" making a more aggressive look in the center of the hood on the sedans.

Thanks for your responses!
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:06 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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DH, I think, gets a Sport+ mode in addition to the Sport setting. Some things can be adjusted from the menu system.

I really doubt the GT would take a bike vertical with the front wheel off in the hatch. Now, laying flat, there's enough length and the seats are split 40:20:40. The X6 is a bit taller, so you might be noticing a weight transfer difference when braking...I'd be surprised if there was much of any real difference. Keep in mind, it takes a few hundred miles to break in both the tires (to scuff off the mold smooth surface) and brakes (to properly bed) before you should compare braking and max handling characteristics...if those did not have enough miles, that may be an issue.
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:21 PM
daders daders is offline
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We literally drove off the truck with the GT as they only completed state inspection and nothing else, X6 had 77mi on it. So your break-in statements are entirely plausible. Btw the auto start/stop really freaked us out.

I actually brought the measurement tape and have better chance in the GT (seats lie flatter) than X6 for bike fitting as I only need 26" high at fork, 38" at seat (3' from fork mount) and 5' length (bike facing rear, assuming 2" height increase due to the mounting system). I'm hopeful that it can be done!

Anyway, going to do extended test drive this weekend hopefully, thanks for the input Jad!
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2013, 05:15 PM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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I drove a GT with the same Dynamic Damper Control that you did. I felt the suspension difference.

DDC on the GT is the dynamic suspension feature. On other models you have to have the DHP package to get them. On the GT, the DHP package includes both DDC and Anti Roll Stabilization which improves handling further. Not all models get ARS in their DHP package.

AFAIK, Sport+ on any model is the same as Sport except traction control is disabled. AFAIK, suspension, Tranny and Steering is the same.

The reviews of the 2014 GT say the handling is improved over previous years. If the GT can't take a bike on forks, I can't imagine an X6.

Are you sure you drove a 5 GT and not a 3 GT? I have never ever heard anyone say they felt squished in a 5 GT.

Some new photos in what looks like Calisto Grey have been released recently. Maybe you can do a Hood Crease Comparo and report back:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/5-s...535i-gt-review

Top Gear did a "serious for them" review of the X6 you may find interesting.
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2013, 06:36 PM
daders daders is offline
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Thanks for the tech specs Ernest. I agree, the X6 really doesn't have the interior room...as a matter of fact I tried folding rear seats down after I was in the passenger front and had to move the front seat forward in order to allow it to fold completely.

To clarify...I didn't feel squished in the GT, the gas and brake pedal felt squishy like putting my head down on a memory foam pillow. It was just different coming from the X6, which we test drove first and thoroughly enjoyed.

After looking at the photos it appears front hood remains unchanged or very minor alterations. Will search top gear, thanks!

Last edited by daders; 07-08-2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Exterior comments
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2013, 08:26 PM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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Ahh yes... my error.

I think it's important to compare appeals to apples. The GT you drove had dynamic controls. Are you saying the X6 in Comfort mode was more peppy than the GT in Comfort mode? Comfort is for HWY cruising and passenger comfort (ride and acceleration). How did Normal mode feel? I could tell the difference in some way on Comfort, Normal, Sport ... Eco-Pro was def squishy.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:33 AM
daders daders is offline
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Never messed with any settings on X6, didn't even notice if it had sport/comfort button near gear shift.

However, after your comments and taking note of my e34 drive characteristics (which I love btw), I am more convinced that the GT is the right choice.

Just wish we had the moola to get both ;-)
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:21 AM
FL-GT535i FL-GT535i is offline
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I can only talk to the space issue. This is great to read this thread because I have always loved the look of the X6 and recently had the chance to sit in one in the showroom right next to a 535i GT. I was amazed how cramped the X6 felt compared to the GT. In fact, when I adjusted the front seat in the X6 I then got out and went to sit in the back seat and it felt claustrophobic. (I'm 6'4") But in the GT, the space in the back seat was incredible - I had 3 inches of leg room to the back of the seat and headroom was amazing. I immediately dismissed the X6 because it reminded me too much of my G37. The word I have been using for the GT is "cavernous" and I can see it being very practical for a good percentage of my needs.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Ductordoc Ductordoc is offline
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The X6 is a hot looking little number but we went with the 550iX GT M-Sport and and love it. I might have added the Dynamic Handling had I known all it did, but we are very happy with it and it handles the mountain roads like white on rice. Very comfortable and in Sport Mode it's quicker in accelerating than i'll ever need.
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2013, 06:47 AM
daders daders is offline
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FL-GT I'm nowhere near as big as you but I seem to have an abnormal leg to torso ratio which creates issues. I may be descendant of whatever is the opposite of apes, j/k!

Anywho, back to the vehicles. My initial reaction in the GT was: damn, we can live in here...time to sell the trailer honey! Cavernous is a very good adjective.

The wife agrees 100% with your assessment DuctorDoc, there is something about the X6 aggressive stance that is very visually appealing to us...and not at all practical since it seems to be half of everything.

Have you had any oil consumption issues with the V8 DuctorDoc? I would love to get the 550, but it's mainly for the sound of it as we honestly don't need that much power. If we were to consider a CPO it would be extremely difficult to pass on the 550 though.

Here are a few things I like and/orwish could be transmogrified (to quote Calvin and Hobbes) from either of these vehicles to create the perfect form factor for our family:
1. Love the dual temperature dials of the GT for better temperature separation of driver/passenger as I'm always warm when she is cold.
2. Really prefer the double vents the X6 and X5 have for driver/passenger.
3. Latching rails would be a nice optional equipment in GT
4. When folding rear seats down wish the protector panel had an extension as we would load our dog in there and will probably need to put blankets or something to protect the top of the rear seats and headrests.
5. I didn't test this yet, but fitting a set of golf clubs width-wise has been a gripe in my family tree starting with the E39 sedan...
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:19 AM
Ductordoc Ductordoc is offline
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We only have 2000 miles on our GT but no oil consumption issue.
I am 6'4" at 200 lbs and can there is lots of leg and head room in the drivers seat.

We have the rear luxury seats (solid console in the middle) and thankfully our pooch is only 30 lbs. I don't know if this option is available 2014. As nice, comfy and adjustable as they are
it may have been more prudent to get the bench seat to accomodare a dog bed.

There is a partition behind the rear seats that does not have to be down when the seats are down and we will be seeing if that creates a sufficient barrier between rear storage and where we may travel with our dog (hope her crate fits on top of seats when folded). The back of teh rear seats and the partition would be like a floor and a wall. This would still leave some leather exposed close to the front seats including the back of the front seats.

There are 4 fold open "tabs" (2 on each side) of the roof that I am told are there for the GT to accept roof rack/rails. They may also be on the sedan and you can take a look.

The rear storage measured horizontally (angle will offer a bit more) begins at 41" right at the opening then for a short length quickly tapers up to 51" then back to 40". I am not a golfer so don't know if this will take a set of clubs or not. The taper to 51" is about 12" with 8 of those being at a full 51".
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:43 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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It is not uncommon for the V8 to use oil - if you scan the forums, you'll find people who have had consumption with the V8 of as much as 1qt/800 miles. My experience with the I6 is that it has not used any, at least as indicated by the computer display (there is NO dip stick on this vehicle). Now, the most I've done between oil changes was around 11K, based on time, not mileage. If I happen to get that many miles on before my next year is up, I'd have around 18-19K miles on the thing in between oil changes, but I'll probably have way less based on max of 12-month intervals, unless mileage limits are seen first.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:54 PM
daders daders is offline
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Yes, I noticed some of those posts on both X6 and GT forums. We have an Audi A4 (CPO) which has been guzzling oil at 1qt/~750mi. Which was never revealed prior to purchase so I've been a thorn in their side. They finally tried replacing a crank seal (a temp fix from what I've read) after the third time I complained, and I'm monitoring the oil consumption. First it pissed me off they tell me it's normal but won't disclose at time of sale. Second it gets worse gas mileage than my 1993 E34 with 202,000miles (23mpg city only). Sorry for the soapbox stand there, but that's why I was asking about oil consumption since the V8 is twin turbocharged.

Which, btw, leads me to my next question...I've obviously been researching and it appears the V6 is a single turbo charger with a twin spooler for faster response, but there are varying "talking heads" saying it is twin turbocharged as well. Anyone care to settle which is correct as BMW engine cover clearly says twin power turbo which sounds like market-ese for: we want you to think it has two but it really doesn't? Mostly just idle curiosity since the V6 has no history of oil consumption and the V8 does, so obviously something is different (and I would be surprised if it was engine block design vs turbocharging variations).

Once again thanks for all the replies!
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:57 PM
daders daders is offline
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Thanks for the measurements DuctorDoc, the 51" would be plenty for length and may work with my carry bag for diameter width, when we go for our extended test drive I will be bringing golf clubs and hopefully her bike to do the "real" world fit test!
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:34 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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As far as I know, BMW doesn't make a V6, they're all inline 6-cyliner engines. These are easier to seal since there's only one head, and things are all in one line. It does mean most BMWs tend to have longer hoodlines since it is longer than an equivalent V6. While they do use two turbos on some versions, most of the more modern ones use something they call a bi-turbo system which is really one turbocharger with a variable intake system that acts throughout the rev range, acting like both a small and a larger one, depending on the engine's needs at the current load and RPM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:56 PM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daders View Post
...Which, btw, leads me to my next question...I've obviously been researching and it appears the V6 is a single turbo charger with a twin spooler for faster response, ...
may be helpful: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344169
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:59 PM
daders daders is offline
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Ernest, thx for the light reading! Pretty interesting learning about the benefits of a twin scroll turbo, btw.

Jad...Complete goof on my part with the idiot V6 comment...what a nob! Looks like someone should confiscate my E34 on that comment alone!


So has anyone asked BMW why there is oil consumption differences between the two (I6 vs V8)?

Based on thread reading some people have problems and others don't with both Audi I4 and BMW V8 leading to either:
a). it's pot luck as to receiving a lemon (faulty seals I would surmise?? mostly) or
b). the way the individual vehicle was driven during break-in?

Perhaps the above questions are better suited as a new thread somewhere?

All this engine talk is more than likely moot since I really was only considering the 535 anyway.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:59 AM
daders daders is offline
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Roller coaster

Over the past few days we have gone through a roller coaster of emotions. First the 535GT we were considering was sold so we resolved ourselves to a CPO search and to slow down our purchase decision. Then word that the individual returned the GT in favor of building their own. Meanwhile I found a 2010 550 w/ everything we want except the M-Sport (really not important except it looks so nice). And it is $12k cheaper than the 2013 535 we were seriously considering. So more questions follow since the CPO is 1000+miles from us and I can't verify these details in person:

1. Is the 2010 HUD monochrome and does it show the turn-by-turn navigation?

2. The ventilated seats in 2013 blow air at your a/c vent temperature, I assume this function is the same, can anyone verify or disprove? The importance of this feature has increased due to exterior and interior color being black (very bad color combo for Texas IMO and significant detractor).

3. Anyone know a good Indy mechanic in LA area that could do an inspection? I looked up the yelp reviews of the dealer (Center BMW) and the service dept has an alarming number of poor reviews. Or if you have personally dealt with them can you vouch for them?

Personally after my CPO A4 purchase experience I am never trusting another dealer on their CPO certification process, especially one that is receiving poor service reviews (via yelp). Only positive is the vehicle only has 15k miles on it so I really just want visual verification that they did the yearly oil changes (no sludge buildup), a visual on chips, nicks, dents and a go/no go decision.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:55 AM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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I can't answer your questions but personally, a used BMW is somewhat risky and one from a shady dealer, ummm more risky. Then there's the issue of black on black in Texas may be hard to deal with and hard to get rid of if you don't like it. Also, the 2010 is the very first year the car was produced so it's a version 1.0 verses the 2013 535. Now there may be something wrong with the 2013 535 that the person who bought it returned it. My 2 cents.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:48 AM
Ductordoc Ductordoc is offline
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an amateur opinion is all i can offer:

I have heard that the 2010's had electrical and fuel issues so please look into that.
The ProNAV on the 20123 is a vast improvement over the 2010
The 2010 instrument cluster is an earlier version and not near as informative or easy to look at.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:06 AM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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The 2011 nav added more color. THe newest one adds more and significantly different graphics to the HUD. There was a running production change in 09/10, the earliest stuff differs from everything after making parts (on at least those items affected, don't know, but do know it includes wheels), different. Since that was so early, that may be an issue since there are so few of them.

Personally, I'd never own a black on black car, especially in hot Texas.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:38 AM
daders daders is offline
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Thanks for the replies! Fortunately or unfortunately the vehicle was sold the day I inquired about it, sigh always the bridesmaid...
I was hesitant about the black on black as my CA here added that it was the jet black which shows water marks like crazy in addition to being super hot. To clarify, Ernest, I am only looking at CPO's through BMW centers and I had done a yelp search of the dealership, but I just wanted to be thorough since it would have been a sight-unseen purchase (even with my finding an Indy to do a pre-purchase inspection). The other nice thing (which the Audi dealers don't have, unless my dealer lied) was my CA showed me the service records of the CPO we were considering, that certainly helped assuage apprehension over a remote purchase.
I very much appreciate the feedback on the HUD differences...I guess it just comes down to the fact they're always improving the gadgets and whether we want to pay a premium for the wow factor on the options. Hopefully we will join the ownership ranks in the near future.
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Last edited by daders; 07-19-2013 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:57 AM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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From my research, 2013 5GTs had the most bang for the buck in terms of what you got for the money. Everything in the value package was $0, Nappa was only $1000 and could be ordered on any color, and upgrading to 19s was only $600. I also think they fixed quite a few problems by then. And the Nav system in 2013 was the revamped one. Lots of people rag on the prior one.

Last edited by ErnestHouse; 07-19-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:56 AM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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Seem to remember that they added new tweaks to the nav for 2014...may be mixed up. Not worth bothering as I'm years away from a new one, and it would be annoying to find out! I may add an i3 which would have the latest, but that's still a ways off. Definitely need to do a fit test for me and my trike first.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:40 PM
roots roots is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
Seem to remember that they added new tweaks to the nav for 2014...may be mixed up. Not worth bothering as I'm years away from a new one, and it would be annoying to find out! I may add an i3 which would have the latest, but that's still a ways off. Definitely need to do a fit test for me and my trike first.
I believe the 2014 nav will be the same as 2013 (i.e. with the 3D transition effects), but 2014 will get the new iDrive touch controller (you can write letters on the controller surface).



Edit: I just found this link which has the complete info about 2013 nav changes: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716464
Note that the US does not get iDrive touch until model year 2014.
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