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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 12-22-2015, 06:26 PM
bmwe39lover bmwe39lover is offline
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328 loaner vs 2013 528

some interesting thoughts on a 15 328 premium no nav vs 2013 bmw 528 premium package and nav

first all i miss my nav screen the 3 is ridiculous with this small screen with no nav
some thoughts below which some i find interesting

gas mileage not too much different reset the 3 today did 120 miles got 27 mpg all day mix of driving same as 5 i was surprised

elevation of car in height is a little higher than my five i like the stance of the 3 in height the 14 and above 5 addresses this with the 18's

interior of the 3 is average at best, the front seat is good for segment but bmw better start to step up lexus and competition are surpassing them

the standard radio in the 3 sounds like its got another 50-100 watts wish my 5 had a little more power, i like the clarity of both

powertrain with the weight difference doesn't seem much faster than my 5 i know its a couple of tenths quicker i like the feeling of my 5 better with the powertrain,

the ride of both is composed. seems like with the new tires of the loaner mine has 12k its absorbing a little better, seems like the 5 has less left to right movement probably due to more rigid seven series platform

the turn in with the drop lighter weight of smaller 3 is a little better. i like the suspension of both bars i feel less fatigued today with the 3 not in comfort but the car seems easy to put mileage on very light steering

the arm rest is ridiculous on the 3

the cup holders are better designed on the 3 than the ridiculous ones on 5

and the biggest hit me over head moment is the back up sensors with camera that amazes me that a 55k car didnt come with standard in 5, i miss it and it makes the poor visibility of the 5 horrendous in parking lots... i wouldn't buy a car again without it, but i did pay 31900 for my 5 and stole the car with 19k on it so probably would have lol
happy holidays to all
great forum
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2015, 06:52 PM
BWW BWW is offline
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No back up on a $55k car is just silly and irresponsible of Bmw ... For me, it's more safety than convenience.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2015, 08:34 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by BWW View Post
No back up on a $55k car is just silly and irresponsible of Bmw ... For me, it's more safety than convenience.
BMW forces you to buy the PDC if you order the rear camera, so it's an $1150 deal. Long story, but my Individual paint forced the PDC option, so of course, I paid $400 more for the camera. Now that I have that combo, it would seem like "flying blind" without it. Irresponsible? Just order it if you need/want it. Nothing is "standard" -- you pay for it one way or the other.
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Last edited by markl53; 12-22-2015 at 08:35 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2015, 08:04 AM
weinschela weinschela is offline
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I believe rear view cameras are required in the US starting with model year 2016. After having it, I would not buy another car without it. PDC is very useful too, but not IMHO essential. But I'd specify that too for anything I bought, just to avoid the inevitable dings.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2015, 08:19 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
I believe rear view cameras are required in the US starting with model year 2016. After having it, I would not buy another car without it. PDC is very useful too, but not IMHO essential. But I'd specify that too for anything I bought, just to avoid the inevitable dings.
Yes, and it will be interesting to see if BMW drops the PDC dependency when the camera becomes standard. My guess is "yes".
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2015, 03:05 PM
st_o_p st_o_p is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
I believe rear view cameras are required in the US starting with model year 2016. After having it, I would not buy another car without it. PDC is very useful too, but not IMHO essential. But I'd specify that too for anything I bought, just to avoid the inevitable dings.
I find that I always use the top camera and never the rear one. May as well not have it

PDC is awesome - money well spent
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2015, 04:24 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
I believe rear view cameras are required in the US starting with model year 2016. After having it, I would not buy another car without it. PDC is very useful too, but not IMHO essential. But I'd specify that too for anything I bought, just to avoid the inevitable dings.
They push it back to May 2018.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2015, 05:19 PM
bmwe39lover bmwe39lover is offline
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Back to the 5 tonight from 3 interesting thoughts, i am laughing
front seat is more substantial in 5
interior is huge upgrade
ride is more composed
car is lower to ground
nav update great and drive software updated good stuff

the 5 feels 20k more than the 3

end of story

merry xmas
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2015, 06:31 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwe39lover View Post
Back to the 5 tonight from 3 interesting thoughts, i am laughing
front seat is more substantial in 5
interior is huge upgrade
ride is more composed
car is lower to ground
nav update great and drive software updated good stuff

the 5 feels 20k more than the 3

end of story
Welcome home. The 3 is a fine entry sports sedan, but the 5 is in a whole different league and market segment. I do agree the 3 interior needs serious work. I've always felt it was a downgrade from my old E90.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2015, 09:54 PM
DSTJ99 DSTJ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Welcome home. The 3 is a fine entry sports sedan, but the 5 is in a whole different league and market segment. I do agree the 3 interior needs serious work. I've always felt it was a downgrade from my old E90.

I just traded in my 328 for a 528. I'm surprised at how much nicer the cabin is. 3 series looks nice but 5 materials look and feel nice. The base seats are rather cozy too!
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  #11  
Old 12-25-2015, 12:52 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwe39lover View Post
Back to the 5 tonight from 3 interesting thoughts, i am laughing
front seat is more substantial in 5
interior is huge upgrade
ride is more composed
car is lower to ground
nav update great and drive software updated good stuff

the 5 feels 20k more than the 3

end of story

merry xmas
The $20k price difference is huge, e.g. $40k 328i versus $60k 528i, for 50% price premium.
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2015, 06:59 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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The $20k price difference is huge, e.g. $40k 328i versus $60k 528i, for 50% price premium.
I don't think he meant literally $20K difference. There's hardly a 328i out there less than about $45k and a "lower end" 528i goes for about $55k or so.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2015, 07:03 AM
bmwe39lover bmwe39lover is offline
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considering an out the door 528 for about 50 and a 328 for about 40, its a no brainer, completely different class of vehicle.
i have a different appeciation for my 5 since the loaner.
the 8 speed and the n20 motor in the 328 is what your paying for an deserves a 8 k premium over competition the motor and tranny are great and great mpg
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2015, 07:11 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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I almost leased a 328 but at the time a 528 was actually cheaper to lease! So happy I "discovered" the 5. I agree that the n20 feels much more refined in the 5 - they clearly put extra effort in as well they should have.

I'm going to be in a real quandary when this lease is up about whether to go with a new g30 5 series or with an f30.

There are several companies offering backup camera retrofits by the way.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2015, 11:20 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
I almost leased a 328 but at the time a 528 was actually cheaper to lease! So happy I "discovered" the 5. I agree that the n20 feels much more refined in the 5 - they clearly put extra effort in as well they should have.

I'm going to be in a real quandary when this lease is up about whether to go with a new g30 5 series or with an f30.

There are several companies offering backup camera retrofits by the way.
325, I'm not sure you'll really be happy going to a 3 once you've had your 5 for the few years. When I get a 3 loaner, on the very infrequent times I go in for service, it's just not the same at all. My two 3-series (E46 and E90) were 6MT as well, so the 3 loaners really don't feel like going back to my own.
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  #16  
Old 12-25-2015, 11:47 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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I don't think he meant literally $20K difference. There's hardly a 328i out there less than about $45k and a "lower end" 528i goes for about $55k or so.
Yes it looks like $10k difference is about right between similarly equipped F30 and F10, the MY15 of both are selling $5k+ below invoice.

E.g. MY15 328i base(zero option) at local dealer sold for $32k. Another MY15 328i with premium + lighting + tech + M sport is offered for slightly above $40k.

My previous ride was a E39, the F30 was the closet to E39 3 years ago in terms of handling and driving feel, but F30 does lack the trim quality and interior space of the 5-series.

Last edited by namelessman; 12-25-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2015, 12:35 PM
bmwe39lover bmwe39lover is offline
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namelesman, i wasn't knocking the 3 i liked the suspension, the handling and the ride. love the motor and tranny. my loaner was a 15 and i know they stepped it up in 16, my point is the luxury feel the driving position, the nav screen, the ride and the composure of the 5 is way above the 3, unless i did the compare and contrast back to back i would have never known
safe driving your 328 for the money is a great car and i am sure you enjoy it
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:20 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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328 loaner vs 2013 528

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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
325, I'm not sure you'll really be happy going to a 3 once you've had your 5 for the few years. When I get a 3 loaner, on the very infrequent times I go in for service, it's just not the same at all. My two 3-series (E46 and E90) were 6MT as well, so the 3 loaners really don't feel like going back to my own.

Right. The issue is that I'd end up with one of the first g30s off the line. The odds of annoying niggles and issues are quite high. I could try to end the lease early and get one of the last f10s but I'm not sure I love it enough to spend another 3 years in what will be almost the same car (though I would add some options I missed this time around)

My unrealistic dream is that they will offer very attractive lease deals on the 6 series gc at that point. Probably not gonna happen though. There's one that always parks next to me in my garage as if to tempt me.

So I'll likely end up with a loaded 340. Slight possibility of some sort of Audi I suppose. Although, I was underwhelmed with the a4 I rented (could feel the nose heaviness and the steering is truly numb- new one is supposed to be even worse plus it has that ugly 80s Toyota-esque all-vent dash). Most Mercedes resemble 70s pimp mobiles these days so that's a no go as well.

Golf R is appealing in theory but for the same or less (lease) price I think I'll be happier with a 340. And VW dealers really, really suck.
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  #19  
Old 12-25-2015, 02:04 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by bmwe39lover View Post
namelesman, i wasn't knocking the 3 i liked the suspension, the handling and the ride. love the motor and tranny. my loaner was a 15 and i know they stepped it up in 16, my point is the luxury feel the driving position, the nav screen, the ride and the composure of the 5 is way above the 3, unless i did the compare and contrast back to back i would have never known
safe driving your 328 for the money is a great car and i am sure you enjoy it
Yes the difference of trim level and quality of 3 versus 5 are quite noticeable, obviously that is BMWAG's intent to justify the price points. The current 5 is a bit big and heavy for me, it will be interesting what G10 will bring. My wild guess is that the next 3-series G20 will be very close in size and weight and trim quality of E39, while G10 is inching towards a E48/E65 7-series.
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2015, 06:34 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Yes the difference of trim level and quality of 3 versus 5 are quite noticeable, obviously that is BMWAG's intent to justify the price points. The current 5 is a bit big and heavy for me, it will be interesting what G10 will bring. My wild guess is that the next 3-series G20 will be very close in size and weight and trim quality of E39, while G10 is inching towards a E48/E65 7-series.
I don't think it's a matter of "justifying" the price difference, the 5 series is a full-fledged luxury level sedan, as opposed to an entry-level sport sedan. Just as an E class is higher level than the C class, the 5 IS more expensive, with a higher level of refinement, comfort, and everything else that goes with a step higher up the ladder. I'm not sure why it is sometimes felt to be "just" a bigger 3. I'm sure the 7 is that much "nicer", in turn, than the 5
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Last edited by markl53; 12-25-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-25-2015, 06:57 PM
bmwe39lover bmwe39lover is offline
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mark merry xmas, alot of what makes the f10 special is the underpinnings which is a 7 in the frame for rigidity.
hope your well and had a nice holiday
the 3 doesn't use the 7's underpinnings
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2015, 10:00 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
I don't think it's a matter of "justifying" the price difference, the 5 series is a full-fledged luxury level sedan, as opposed to an entry-level sport sedan. Just as an E class is higher level than the C class, the 5 IS more expensive, with a higher level of refinement, comfort, and everything else that goes with a step higher up the ladder. I'm not sure why it is sometimes felt to be "just" a bigger 3. I'm sure the 7 is that much "nicer", in turn, than the 5
Your descriptions(of 5 being a non entry-level and 3 being entry-level) clearly show the price points to be reasonable, and that matches Webster's definition of "justify".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justify

bmwe39lover also made the right observation, namely F10 is based on F01 chassis, so in a way F10 is truly a mini-7.
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