why is the F10 so unpopular ?

Originally Posted by w5lx

i have to agree with dunderhi. Most of the complaints and criticism of the new cars come from former owners who have owned several bmw's over the past several years and have come to love the way the older cars have driven. Then they purchased a new f10 based on their love of the brand, perhaps without doing the proper research and without extensively driving them prior to purchase, and have been very disappointed with the new models. You can do a bit of research on this forum and see for yourself why the f10 is so unpopular among these drivers. Most of the complaints focus on acceleration problems, lack of any steering feel or connection to the road like they have been accustomed to with the older models, runflat tires that contribute to a harsh and uncomfortable ride, a battery charging system that won't keep the battery charged without using a trickler charger for those who don't drive their cars a minimum of 30 miles a day, a start/stop system that borders on the ridiculous, overly complicated electronics that need constant updating, a lousy nav-system, a mediocre sound system, and other issues that make it less than "the ultimate driving machine." those that don't complain, or those who take exception with those that do, are usually new bmw owners who are just not familiar with the great way these cars used to drive. Then there are the fan boys who will praise the brand no matter how valid the claims of other owners are. Do your research. Drive several models of several different brands of cars you are considering. By doing diligent research prior to purchase, you will save yourself a lot of grief.

+1

Originally Posted by Highmodulus

The new 3 series is not helping- when they are side by side at the dealer its unclear why you need the 5, unless you want the 550 engine or the small amount of extra room. The 335i is particularly good. This happened a bit with the F25 X3s and the older X5's.

The upside for 5 series buyers is going to be aggressive incentives I imagine. Now if they brought over the 5 series wagon. . . .

At first glance maybe but once you sit inside the F30 there is no comparison to the F10 in tech, richness and space. To be honest the F30 did not feel any bigger than my E90 and i've sat in quite a few of them now. Interior wise the F30 is like a nice swiss army watch while the F10 is more like a Panerai.

Alan

Originally Posted by Alan L.

To be honest the F30 did not feel any bigger than my E90 and i've sat in quite a few of them now.
Alan

The E90 is actually a bit wider than the F30, the F30 is longer, but the F30's front passenger space is the same or narrower than the E90. The F10 is 2 inches wider than the F30 and a lot more comfortable front and rear. The mutli contour seats in the F10 makes the F30's seats feel like wooden park benches.

No problems with my 2012 550i M-Sport once I added the ACS springs. Good steering feel, very little body roll in corners, very little dive on braking and excellent throttle response and power. Much more luxurous, faster, roomier and more sophisticated than my 2009 E60 550i M-Sport. Maybe many issues were corrected in 2012? Maybe those that are not satisfied did not purchase the 550i M-Sport? I have also never had a tire or wheel problem with my 19" OEM M-Sport Wheels (for sale btw) and my local Dealer has never heard of such problems. I am switching to 20" wheels later this week.

So, I guess each to his or her own in terms of vehicle preferences.

Originally Posted by w5lx

I have to agree with Dunderhi. Most of the complaints and criticism of the new cars come from former owners who have owned several BMW's over the past several years and have come to love the way the older cars have driven. Then they purchased a new F10 based on their love of the brand, perhaps without doing the proper research and without extensively driving them prior to purchase, and have been very disappointed with the new models. You can do a bit of research on this forum and see for yourself why the F10 is so unpopular among these drivers. Most of the complaints focus on acceleration problems, lack of any steering feel or connection to the road like they have been accustomed to with the older models, runflat tires that contribute to a harsh and uncomfortable ride, a battery charging system that won't keep the battery charged without using a trickler charger for those who don't drive their cars a minimum of 30 miles a day, a Start/Stop system that borders on the ridiculous, overly complicated electronics that need constant updating, a lousy nav-system, a mediocre sound system, and other issues that make it less than "The Ultimate Driving Machine." Those that don't complain, or those who take exception with those that do, are usually new BMW owners who are just not familiar with the great way these cars used to drive. Then there are the fan boys who will praise the brand no matter how valid the claims of other owners are. Do your research. Drive several models of several different brands of cars you are considering. By doing diligent research prior to purchase, you will save yourself a lot of grief.

i like what you did there, you basically made everyone who likes their car a fan boy or a "new owner" while "agreeing" with dunder, who seems to be pleased with it. i have to remember that slight of hand.

i am not a new BMW owner nor am i a fan boy (-ish). i believe that my F10 550 is a fantastic automobile, even right out of the box (the mods i have done are an aside, but they are of course killer). i came from an e60 535 and currently own an e92 m3. they are all very different cars. for purposes of comparison, the e60 was lighter and more nimble, but was still no ballerina. the f10 is a more substantial, solid, overengineered automobile. any of the complaints that this guy has are either opinions or bad luck. or i just plain disagree with.

the m3 is a dream.

Originally Posted by Alan L.

I wouldn't say it's unpopular since its the best selling car in its class. Like others have mentioned the F10 isn't like the old model and a minority of people doesn't seem to like that.

I have a few conclusions as to why people complain about the F10 here so much...

1) we have lots of people on the forums who are BMW fanatics and had just made the move from a 3 series over to the 5 expecting it to handle like the 3 series with just more space. This is a huge mistake since the F10 wasn't designed to feel like a gokart like the 3 did and for this generation 5 Bmw made it a mini 7 series more than ever. Majority of the folks buying this car want a smoother handling ride. Different car built for a different purpose.

2) we have people that didn't test drive their cars at all and didn't get the appropriate options for their needs (sports pack, DHP etc...). Nobody to blame here but themselves.

3) we have people here that simply don't know how to use the options or understand the features of this car. Eco pro and comfort mode obviously will have throttle delay. This was designed this way. Less sensitive throttle will give you a smoother transition from braking and acceleration. Don't like it? This is why there is a Sport and Sport+ mode. Then there are people with the Sports transmission complaining about how the transmission behaves. Those that have experience with driving a manual understands why it does what it does but I am surprised to see so many people here think its an issue with the car.

4) the big one is due to members with 2011 and early 2012 builds where the car still had some quirks needed to be ironed out. Throttle delays and vague steering. If you are familiar with German cars this is why you never want to get the first model year anything. New technology and new car = new issues/complaints. Recent build cars seem to have less of these complaints so I am assuming BMW is working on the issue and may have already fixed it.

BMW can't make 100% of the people happy and never will. Some expect the car to ride like Lexus while others expect it to be a auto cross machine. Best thing is to go test drive the car with different options and see what you like and dislike then go from there.

Btw when I test drove a 535xi I loved everything about it and I am coming from a 335 Msport 6spd.

Alan

Let me add another reason why some people complain about the F10 here...

5) There are some people that ended up purchasing another make/model car when they were on the fence choosing it between that and the F10. Now all they do is troll the forum trying to justify their decision with why they bought what they bought. I see quite a few people here like that actually...

Alan

I just passed the 60.000 kms in my F11.
Actually in the twisties of rural France buying some fine wines in Beaune.
My car is a dream on the European highways.
But getting home 96 bottles of premium bourgogne is also no hassle at all.
What the hack are you all raving about?
Doing the twisties really is no problem at all.
And I could never get this load in with a 911.
FGAI.

Originally Posted by The Greek

I agree from a exterior point of view. But inside, it is just no contest. I was considering getting a F30 as a DD, but just cant get over how nice the F10 interior is. Just another class....

+1. I've seen a couple of new 3's, they're not THAT nice. Regardless of how people compare them, the 3 and 5 are in totally different market segments. The 3 is an entry-level sport sedan, while the 5 competes with the MB E350, a luxury-sport sedan. Do people think MB buyers think the C and E are equivalent? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by The Greek

I agree from a exterior point of view. But inside, it is just no contest. I was considering getting a F30 as a DD, but just cant get over how nice the F10 interior is. Just another class....

The f10 is nothing like the f30. It is a far smoother and more elegant car. It appeals to a different segment. I wish I had both as each is a great auto...they are just very different.

Originally Posted by highyo

i like what you did there, you basically made everyone who likes their car a fan boy or a "new owner" while "agreeing" with dunder, who seems to be pleased with it. I have to remember that slight of hand.

I am not a new bmw owner nor am i a fan boy (-ish). I believe that my f10 550 is a fantastic automobile, even right out of the box (the mods i have done are an aside, but they are of course killer). I came from an e60 535 and currently own an e92 m3. They are all very different cars. For purposes of comparison, the e60 was lighter and more nimble, but was still no ballerina. The f10 is a more substantial, solid, overengineered automobile. Any of the complaints that this guy has are either opinions or bad luck. Or i just plain disagree with.

The m3 is a dream.

+1

Originally Posted by highyo

I like what you did there, you basically made everyone who likes their car a fan boy or a "new owner" while "agreeing" with dunder, who seems to be pleased with it. I have to remember that slight of hand.

You noticed that too? It's straight out of Political Speaking 101.

Originally Posted by Stealth8

I have also never had a tire or wheel problem with my 19" OEM M-Sport Wheels (for sale btw) and my local Dealer has never heard of such problems. I am switching to 20" wheels later this week.

How much are you asking for your wheels? Selling with tires and TPMs?

Originally Posted by Stealth8

many issues were corrected in 2012? Maybe those that are not satisfied did not purchase the 550i M-Sport? I have also never had a tire or wheel problem with my 19" OEM M-Sport Wheels (for sale btw) and my local Dealer has never heard of such problems. I am switching to 20" wheels later this week.

I have a 2012 m-sport and have not had issues with the tires either (Dunlop) - meaning bubbles etc.

My issues have been with vibration between 60 to 70 mph since the beginning. This has been reported in several threads in the past and after several balancing sessions (using high speed road force balancing that reports them as perfect) the issue is still noticeable. I have been told there isn't much that can be done and it depends on the road quality. This just doesn't sound right to me.

If you're coming from other brands, you will LOVE F10.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will hate F10 without performance mods.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will like F10 with performance mods.

Originally Posted by bodonx

If you're coming from other brands, you will LOVE F10.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will hate F10 without performance mods.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will like F10 with performance mods.

Thats a good summary.

Originally Posted by bodonx

If you're coming from other brands, you will LOVE F10.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will hate F10 without performance mods.

If you're coming from older BMW models, you will like F10 with performance mods.

Sad, but apparently true. Well, I would up like to love for the Dinan 550s.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Sad, but apparently true. Well, I would up like to love for the Dinan 550s.

Yeah, I started to like my 535i when I got ACS spring installed.

Hopefully, someone will develop software for 535i to make it more responsive like F30 335i.

Only 550s get Dinan

Originally Posted by kc1953

The f10 is nothing like the f30. It is a far smoother and more elegant car. It appeals to a different segment. I wish I had both as each is a great auto...they are just very different.

And it is also far less sporty. Yes, it appeals to a very different segment.

To answer the OP, there is nothing wrong with the F10. BMW has simply changed emphasis (a lot) from sportiness to more luxury. That's what is most popular in this segment. The stiff ride is what most non-enthusiasts (the majority of owners) used to complain about. It also one of the reasons why so many have flocked to Lexus over the years. BMW gave customers what they wanted.

Anyone who wants a natural successor to the E60 should actually look at the F30. Yes, seriously.

Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi

Anyone who wants a natural successor to the E60 should actually look at the F30. Yes, seriously.

This is what I and others have said recently. The 1 is the new 3, the 3 is the new 5 so to speak, the 5 is now a 90% 7, and the 7 is now an uber-7.

My 2012 550i M-Sport with ACS springs is really better in every way than my 2009 E60 550i M-Sport, including handling, luxury and looks. So, each to his or her own. I really do not think of the new 3 as any kind of a substitute for this car, nor is it a sportscar.

Originally Posted by alewifebp

This is what I and others have said recently. The 1 is the new 3, the 3 is the new 5 so to speak, the 5 is now a 90% 7, and the 7 is now an uber-7.

It is supposed to be a secret, but the "new" 7 is really a disguised 9.

I picked up the 2012 F10 535 Sport through ED last week. Even though I had researched and test drove cars for about 9 months (driving the A6, A7, E Series), I was getting concerned about all of the negative posts and wondered if I had made the right decision. Well, I can tell you that it was the best for me, as this is an outstanding car.

The car handles extremely well for the large car it is. It was great on the curvy roads through the Alps and was unbelievably quiet and stable on the autobahn at 100+ mph - all with the boot full of luggage and my wife and teenage son riding along! It was a joy to drive through all conditions, except for the medieval narrow roads (which are only well suited for either a motorcycle or bicycle). The RFTs are amazingly smooth and responsive - a balance difficult to make. We were able to drive it in cool (40 deg f) and hot (95 deg f) conditions, and the tires were consistent through these conditions. After all of the posts about the unusual ride quality, I was very pleasantly surprised. Now, the navigation system has been flogged by many posters, as there is no perfect navigation system. However, after learning the system, we were all very happy with it. We also compared routes selected by the nav system to Google, and they were completely consistent, even through areas where we would need to take small highways off of the autobahn. The sport seats are the most comfortable seats I have used. They are not soft lounge seats like my wife's Lexus, and they are not stiff benches like the 2007 X3 and 2008 528 (two cars I have driven quite a bit).

Of course, the there are so many options, that there are many cars within the model. I would highly recommend getting one with either the Sport or M-Sport packages.

Originally Posted by Sophisto

It is supposed to be a secret, but the "new" 7 is really a disguised 9.

Well then only "2" will be left .....

Originally Posted by dunderhi

I thought the rwd F10s are light oversteerers, but a quick check with Road & Track says they are neutral. So, this is the first I've heard of significant understeer in a rwd F10, so I would really question if CR actually pushed the car hard enough to understeer or if the EPS made them nervous enough to back off.

I'm guessing it's the latter, I think allot of people aren't used to certain traits of BMWs not to mention the drastic changes with these most recent models, and it'll take some adjustment or people will just dismiss it