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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:27 PM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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Taking a Poll on my MOST network issue

Hey I'm new to the the Forum but I've been following the forum for a few months now. I love my 7 and thank you for all the info you all have put out there on how to keep our cars on the road.

So i have a faulty module in my MOST Network that has all the common issues that have been discussed on this forum. I think I have it figured out but just wanted some of the experts (thats all of you) to weigh in on it. So here goes....

Problem:
The problem that I commonly experience is that I'll be driving along with everything working as it should and the sound will go out. When that happens the Idrive will sometimes freeze and sometimes allow me to move between menus but not select anything. Generally hear popping and crackling from the speakers, navigation and voice command doesn't work either, disc changer will cycle through endlessly when car is off. The radio and everything else will generally come back the next day but it has come back to life within minutes as well. Tried the reset by disconnecting the ring in the glove box but no change.

Diagnosis:
I have the jumper and have bypassed all modules (NAV, Logic7, TCU, SVS) in the trunk without the system coming back to life. My next move was to check the ASK. I had read in one of the posts that you cannot bypass the ASK because it is the brains of the system but I thought I would give it a shot anyway (for those that don't know the orientation feature on the fiber optic plug in the back of the ASK is different then the orientation of the jumper so they will not clip together). Anywho after I discovered they didn't clip together I plugged the wiring harness and Fiber Optic back into the ASK and the system came back to life.
So as soon as that happened I said my work is done I need a new ASK.

So would you say it is the ASK or should I check the Tuner and Disc Changer?
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:49 PM
AceFX AceFX is offline
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Hi 7Eleven and welcome to the Fest..

The ASK (Audio System Controller) and the MMI (Multi-Media Interface) work hand in hand with each other. They are in a symbiotic relationship, so one needs the other. The ASK is the Controller of the system and the MMI is the Brains and Display of the system

I have personally experienced this problem that you are explaining to me exactly

Now I found that what it was............. is that for various reasons, could be low power, interuption to supply, outside affects..... etc that my system did exacty what you are suffering

What I found on my MOST (Media Oriented System Transport) was that many of the modules on the MOST had accumulated many Shadow Errors........ errors that will NOT be cleared by the simple MOST bus reset by breaking the loop.

I had to go into each module with Dashsoft (my program of choice, but there may be suggestions from others) and manually clear the stored Shadow Errors Memory

This is a common problem, and usually gets sorted when your car goes for a service at BMW. They will advise you that they found and removed Shadow Errors

The best way to explain this is that the modules fill up with Shadow Errors, and when there are too many, the system starts to be silly like it has too much info and it gets a bit drunk on all the rubbish in it's brains (on each module) and so you have to get it sober again, and remove all the crap.

SO, in conclusion, do you have access to a program that will let you manually clear the Shadow Error Memory?

If not, see if you can find someone who can unless you are due for a service at BMW, and they will do it as part of the service

Last edited by AceFX; 07-25-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2012, 11:31 PM
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pkathee pkathee is offline
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7eleven,
I can see that you are a new member here. Welcome to the fest.

Did I just read that you are in Utah?

I am extremely curious. Whereabout exactly?
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2012, 01:13 AM
AceFX AceFX is offline
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Sorry, I thought I had better clearly explain what a a Shadow Error actually is ....

A Shadow Error is were an actual error has occured due to some sort of disruption, power went low, temporary loss of connection, bad data from another module, etc...... however, after the Error occured, it cleared after a restart or MOST bus loop reset...... however, the module stores a record of this Error actually happening at some stage........so the stored Error is what I am referring to as the Shadow Error...... a record of past events

An example would be..... changing your battery..... when the power to the module is disturbed, cut, any modules that are still on before going to sleep, will record that the power was lost..... this generates an error code. The module doesn't know that you were replacing the battery...... for all it knows, a wire was cut somewhere, or the fuse that supplies power to the module went 'open circuit'...... so the module will then store a Shadow Error that power was lost, even though the power is now restored.

So if ever I have disconnected my battery because of the mods I am doing to my car, when I reconnect the power, I then load Dashsoft and go and clear all the errors in all modules that have generated an error.......and this is not confined just to the MOST. It will also be the SZL, ZGM, CAS, KOMBI etc

I hope this explanation helps you a bit more to understand what a Shadow Error actually is..... and how they fill up memory space in the modules

Last edited by AceFX; 07-26-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:17 AM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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ACE! You are the man! I have read a ton of your posts on programming and all the mods you are doing on your car! Thanks for the great response.

I have INPA and when I last checked I had a significant amount of faults stored in all the modules. I didn't clear them at the time because I thought if I cannot figure this out I wanted them to be in there for the techs at BMW. But I agree with what you are saying so I will give it a shot when I get home from work.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:21 AM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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PKATHEE, I have seen some of your posts on this sight but I never noticed you were from utah. You have a sweet 760! I Currently live in logan but I will be moving near Ogden in a month or so. I just bought my 745 from a cat down in west jordan a month or two ago.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:33 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Hi 7ELEVEN,

Welcome! I use INPA too, there is a quick way to delete all error codes without going into each module:

Select:

'E65'
'Functional Jobs'
'E65'
'Error'
'Clear EM'

'Clear IM' is information history
'Clear HM' is clear error history
These are similar to what ACE is referring to. Great information by the way!

You can also select 'Read EM' this will list all modules and errors found in a list, it saves this as a text file in C:\INPA\BIN\na_fs.tmp.
Another cool feature is the 'UIF' function, this lists all modules, part numbers, manufacturing dates, software etc.... thats saved in na_id.tmp.

Id love the dashdoft tool too but im a cheap skate!

Stuart
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:00 AM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 View Post
Hi 7ELEVEN,

Welcome! I use INPA too, there is a quick way to delete all error codes without going into each module:

Select:

'E65'
'Functional Jobs'
'E65'
'Error'
'Clear EM'

'Clear IM' is information history
'Clear HM' is clear error history
These are similar to what ACE is referring to. Great information by the way!

You can also select 'Read EM' this will list all modules and errors found in a list, it saves this as a text file in C:\INPA\BIN\na_fs.tmp.
Another cool feature is the 'UIF' function, this lists all modules, part numbers, manufacturing dates, software etc.... thats saved in na_id.tmp.

Id love the dashdoft tool too but im a cheap skate!

Stuart
Stuart thanks for the short cut, I'm still very new to INPA and all my knowledge has come from this site and video's people have posted, its good to have sources like all of you to fall back on!
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:23 AM
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pkathee pkathee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7ELEVEN View Post
PKATHEE, I have seen some of your posts on this sight but I never noticed you were from utah. You have a sweet 760! I Currently live in logan but I will be moving near Ogden in a month or so. I just bought my 745 from a cat down in west jordan a month or two ago.
Great. I am also around the West Jordan area.

I have the INPA and NCSEXpert up and running. I have messed around with the two BMW tools. If you need some help, just PM me and we can meet up sometime.
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:30 AM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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Talk about psychic! I was just going through all your posts to see if you had been using them. I will possibly hit you up on somethings Thanks!
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
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pkathee pkathee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7ELEVEN View Post
Talk about psychic! I was just going through all your posts to see if you had been using them. I will possibly hit you up on somethings Thanks!
Fosho brother.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2012, 01:01 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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I give a plus 1 to Pkathee he also knows a lot about INPA, he got me up and running.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2012, 09:24 PM
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pkathee pkathee is offline
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Originally Posted by sirstopher View Post
I give a plus 1 to Pkathee he also knows a lot about INPA, he got me up and running.
Sirstopher,
I never had a chance to officially congratulate you for making a Mod. The 7 series forum definitely needed an active Mod on here. Like really really bad.

And I must say that the administrators made a smart choice.

I have glimpsed through what you have done so far. Keep up the good work Sir.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:05 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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Thanks but not needed, I enjoy it.

So I did go to the car and hooked up the old cable and opened up INPA. I reset all the errors and I went thru each module on the most network and reset them also.

Funny thing is when I did go to the asc or ask unit and reset the module and all levels the stereo played louder. I do have a ghost somewhere also in my most network. My cd changer seems to reload every time I get into the car and my l7 amp settings between 1 and 2 pops? My eq settings will also reset.

No hijack just saying the electronics in this beast are over my head.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 PM
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pkathee pkathee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirstopher View Post
Thanks but not needed, I enjoy it.

So I did go to the car and hooked up the old cable and opened up INPA. I reset all the errors and I went thru each module on the most network and reset them also.

Funny thing is when I did go to the asc or ask unit and reset the module and all levels the stereo played louder. I do have a ghost somewhere also in my most network. My cd changer seems to reload every time I get into the car and my l7 amp settings between 1 and 2 pops? My eq settings will also reset.

No hijack just saying the electronics in this beast are over my head.

Yeah, I totally agree. Electronics on the E65/E66 platform are one of a kind.

Most common culprit for CD changer reloading every time during initial start up is due to power cut off on secondary modules (in this case CD changer) with an effort to preserve voltage energy needed to ensure complete firing up of the car.

If I recollect correctly, you have a brand new Alternator and a successfully ‘Registered’ Battery, right? Try reading independently error stored on the power module.

As for the L7 and ASK unit, since there are no more errors reflected on these modules, try a ‘hard’ MOST network reset.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:37 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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I will check the power module tomorrow, I have no errors that I looked at tonight, how do you do a hard reset of the most network?

My car still is having a hard time starting up, it may need to go see the doctor, lol.

Yes new alternator and agm battery.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:39 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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Oh, the cd changer was replaced in 09, there is any coding required? Didn't think it did...
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:06 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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My NAV unit kept my MOST bus awake, it seemed to keep hanging up, when I removed the disc it was filthy! Had to wash it with soapy water! Been ok since. Worth a go if you haven't changed the NAV disc in a while!

Stuart
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:17 AM
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Yea, it might be....last time I removed the nav disc my whole system seemed to shut down.lol. Ended up having to pull the fuses and resetting everything!

How do I do a hard reset of the most network, goons search later today just being lazy.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:22 AM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirstopher View Post
Yea, it might be....last time I removed the nav disc my whole system seemed to shut down.lol. Ended up having to pull the fuses and resetting everything!

How do I do a hard reset of the most network, goons search later today just being lazy.
Never mind
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:54 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Sorry, I'm not sure what's meant by a hard reset, but pulling the diagnostic loop connector out will reset the bus. I would imagine disconnecting the battery would be better, I've done it a few times with great results!
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:46 PM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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Looks like there is some great discussion on the MOST network going on so I will just give an update on my issue.

According to ACE and PKATHEE I went and reset all the errors in all the modules in the most network. It has been a day now and a little over an hour of driving and it hasn't come back yet! I will continue to give updates because there has been days in the past where it hasn't acted up at all.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:54 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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I did everything listed above and all is good, but it will need a night to tell if it's fixed or not.

FYI- removing the jumper - what does it do except disrupt the light transmission? I don't think it resets anything, there is no power loss or power down?
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:06 PM
7ELEVEN 7ELEVEN is offline
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Sirstopher, You bring up a very good point. although the transmission of light is broken none of the modules power down. The sound and everything will stop, seeming like they are shutdown but the system is just not communicating. I briefly reread the pdf I attached again and found nothing about disconnecting the ring for a reset. In fact in my reading I don't seem to remember anyone ever saying that by disconnecting the ring their system began to work properly again.

There is a section in the pdf titled "Ring Break Test" in which they it says to disconnect the battery for 45 seconds to allow all capacitors in the modules to power down. After the reconnecting the battery the modules will power back up and there is node number 0 stored in the module that didn't receive a transmission from the previous module. I believe using DIS you can determine which module is faulty based on the node numbers stored. See the example on page 17 of the pdf. I tried to do this before I bypassed all my modules using a spare jumper but I only had INPA and I was never able to see any numbers stored in the modules.

***DISCLAIMER*** I did not read every post on the MOST issue so someone may have seen success in disconnecting the jumper, and there may be a valid reason for disconnecting it. I have read the entire MOST BUS pdf multiple times but do not claim to understand all of it.


Anyway just some food for thought on your question about the "RESET."

By the way 3 days later and system is still working using the instructions from AceFX and pkathee. Thanks again!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf mostbus[1].pdf (137.7 KB, 79 views)

Last edited by 7ELEVEN; 07-30-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2012, 05:14 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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I checked my system after using INPA to go thru each module set on the most ring. It seems that the results were good as I still have the eq and l7 setting stored when I checked yesterday.

Today I got my first low coolant light and filled up about 3 cups of antifreeze. It's 107 deg. For the last week but I can smell the faint sweet smell of antifreeze, so I am leaking somewhere.

I also think I have a fuel pump problem I am having some mornings the car cranks then finally starts.

BTW : I hate this car.....
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