Need help convincing! 535xi vs A6

Hi everyone. I'm about to buy my first german sedan. Up until a few days ago, I was 98% sure I was going to get a 2012-2013 A6. I have to be honest, I really like how an S-Line A6 with 20' wheels look. However, I walked into a BMW dealership and they offered me a 2012 535i xdrive on the lot in the exact specs I wanted with premium, tech, 19' sport, cold weather and BMW apps for $3720 cheaper than the A6 that I wanted. I was shocked that they were giving the BMW to me at $8000 below MSRP and cheaper that an equivalent Audi.

The features and packages between the two are a match I think. I test drove an A7 (I was considering that) and didn't feel strongly either way about the handling vs the BMW, although I like that the BMW has adjustable dampers and can be both soft and sporty. I know that a lot of members in this forum are really hardcore about driving feel and responsiveness etc. but I'll be using this car mainly for commuting and not aggressive driving.

Today was the first time I was ever inside a 535 and I was surprised at how nice the interior is in person as I've always read that Audi makes the best interiors. The Audi does have a nicer dash and instrument cluster but the BMW certainly has nicer seats, and I like how the fit is around the driver. I like the look of the A6 more, but only if it has the 20' wheels which might be less practical here in the midwest vs the BMW which I think looks great with the 19' and all season tires they were giving me.

So now I'm really confused. I know that this is a BMW forum, but what do you guys think?

First off, this has been done to death. For more information hit the search feature.

General consensus:

Audi has the better engine by far. No throttle issues, more powerful.

Most people prefer the exterior syling of the F10 and consider the A6 to be too bland.

Interior is a bit of a toss-up with most suggesting that the interior of the F10 uses better quality materials and looks more upscale.

LED running lights on the A6 are already getting quite played out looking and run the risk of really dating the car.

Tech in the A6 is definitely superior to the F10 though most detest the pop-up nav screen idea (I like it but that's just me)

Audi dealerships are generally horrible

Handling is a toss-up though with some of the trick suspension offerings, the BMW may have a slight edge here

BMW is very aggressive in their pricing and incentives while the A6/7 doesn't offer very much in the way of discounts (as you seem to have already found)

BMW is probably the higher status marque if that's an important variable to you

I'm sure I've missed some points but that's a decent start.

Hey, I was pretty much in the same situation before I bought my F10, I was thinking of the Audi A5, A6, and the F10. The reason why I picked the 5 series is mainly the looks and the interior. The BMW fits like a glove to the driver and feels more elegant.
I don't like that the A3,A4,A5,A6 all have the same type of lights,and body panels... all Audi's look the same to me with slights changed lights..

Ooohhhh man not again!

Originally Posted by dex2003

So now I'm really confused. I know that this is a BMW forum, but what do you guys think?

Take good test drives in each car and buy the one you like.

If those are the packages on the car you are looking at, you do not have adjustable dampers.

Also, if you really like the A6, buy it. That much price isn't too much of a difference. The F10 5 series is a different animal than the current A6.

Imo you answered your own question with the third paragraph where you said you better liked how the seats fit the driver. It doesn't matter how nice or bad a car is if it is driven every day and particularly on long trips, if the seats don't feel good you won't like the thing in very short order.

Thanks for all the replies, even though this topic has been done to death!

Although the Audi has its advantages, overall I think the BMW is the better package for me.

I spoke with the dealer, will be getting the car on Monday. Will also try to get the $1000 new graduate incentive since my wife has just finished her medical fellowship.

Needsdecaf, the sports package has the dynamic damper control now. I tested it and was one of the things I really liked about the unit I'm getting.

We'll see if I get buyer's remorse.

The A6 has more power and is about 200 lbs lighter. The 535ix has much nicer seats and a better interior, but the Audi has better performance dynamics. So the main thing you have to ask yourself is do you value performance or luxury more? The main selling point for the Audi for you was the 20 inch wheels, but those wheels only come with summer tires on them and the ride is pretty stiff and you can't adjust the suspension. SO you are gonna have to find another set of tires for the winter or go with different rims and tires altogether. The 535ix is plug and play, in any weather with all season tires on 19 inch rims, but the tires are terrible and prone to bubbles and damage. Both cars have their own tire issues, but I think both cars are great and you can't make a bad decision either way. For me, the seats are a deal breaker in the Audi.

Originally Posted by dex2003

Thanks for all the replies, even though this topic has been done to death!

Although the Audi has its advantages, overall I think the BMW is the better package for me.

I spoke with the dealer, will be getting the car on Monday. Will also try to get the $1000 new graduate incentive since my wife has just finished her medical fellowship.

Needsdecaf, the sports package has the dynamic damper control now. I tested it and was one of the things I really liked about the unit I'm getting.

We'll see if I get buyer's remorse.

I think you made the right decision, the 535 is a better car overall for the same money. Just be careful with those 19" runflats, they bubble very easy, the non-sport 18" run flats do not have that problem. You might want to consider buying the tire and rim insurance.

I have a 2012 535xi and the engine is great, with no throttle delay, but drive it for yourself. Only you are going to be able to answer this question. If you can use both for a weekend, that should be the best test. Oops, looks like you did it. Congrats!!

I decided NOT to get the tire insurance because the LS2 tires are covered by Goodyear for the first year on any road hazard damage. If I decide to keep the car longer and get a bubble that'll be a good time to get some non-RFTs. So far I have about 4000 miles and the tires are fine---just not the greatest ride. And I think our roads in the midwest are somewhat more tire friendly than the East coast.

BTW--Congratulations and welcome to the forum!

yeah man, you'll be stoked on the bummer. I got a new one a month ago and was really lighting it up this weekend. don't know if they are the ultimate driving machines, but they sure can get the job done. the sport seats are money. I also love my premium sound.

Originally Posted by chill535ix

yeah man, you'll be stoked on the bummer. I got a new one a month ago and was really lighting it up this weekend. don't know if they are the ultimate driving machines, but they sure can get the job done. the sport seats are money. I also love my premium sound.

Freudian slip?

I've owned both. I prefer the BMW F10 now, but I live in a warm climate.

If I was in the Midwest/Northeast/Northwest, I'd go Audi hands down.

(and I did with an Audi 80, A4, S4, and A6 when I lived in NJ)

The weight of these cars is one the more important drive experience influencing factors.
From the Audi site the weight for the 3 litre FSI automatic quatro is 1815 kg.
From the BMW site the weight for the 535 xi automatic is 1840 kg.

I suggested it before and do so again.
Get the car as it should be on RWD platform and buy dedicated summmer and winter wheels.
Not only the weight comes down to 1760 kg, but also the needlessly heavy nose is lightened and you have no drive train torque on your steered wheels.

All the other subjective comparable items....oh well, the BMW comfort seats are in a class on there own.

deleted

Originally Posted by Sophisto

The weight of these cars is one the more important drive experience influencing factors.
From the Audi site the weight for the 3 litre FSI automatic quatro is 1815 kg.
From the BMW site the weight for the 535 xi automatic is 1840 kg.

I suggested it before and do so again.
Get the car as it should be on RWD platform and buy dedicated summmer and winter wheels.
Not only the weight comes down to 1760 kg, but also the needlessly heavy nose is lightened and you have no drive train torque on your steered wheels.

All the other subjective comparable items....oh well, the BMW comfort seats are in a class on there own.

Here we go again.

Let's see what the people who design and manufacture German sedans have to say on the matter:

Originally Posted by bmw.com

xDrive is the permanent all-wheel drive system from BMW: under normal circumstances, it distributes driver power between the front and rear axles in a 40:60 ratio, and changes this figure variably when the road surface or overall driving conditions change.

Acting virtually instantaneously and a manner so subtle as to be go virtually unnoticed by the vehicle's occupants, xDrive can direct up to 100% of drive forces to one axle. Enabling the driver to start up effortlessly even on slippery surfaces or steep hills, xDrive routes all power to the axles with the greatest traction. When parking, the system reacts to the need for high manoeuvrability at low speed by opening the clutch completely so the powertrain functions optimally.

At the first sign of understeering, drive power to the front axle is reduced. If oversteering is detected, xDrive directs more power to the front axle. Thanks to this dynamic redistribution of power, vehicle stability returns to normal even before the driver notices anything amiss.

Driving on a winding road or taking a fast bend in dynamic style is particularly enjoyable with xDrive: you feel as if your BMW is being guided along the curve. xDrive ensures that none of drive power is wasted on a loss of traction: every kilowatt of power is effectively brought to bear on the road.

xDrive is regulated by Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and uses information from the latter system’s sensors to monitor road conditions. In addition, brake force courtesy of DSC is used when there is traction difference between the two sides of the vehicle and wheel spin is likely.

Originally Posted by mercedes-benz.com

Permanent all-wheel drive is not just useful in snow, however. In the wet it enhances road grip and reduces the risk of aquaplaning. Those who spend a lot of time behind the wheel on motorways can also benefit from the ability of four-wheel drive technology to reduce the sensitivity of the car to side winds. Apart from additional weight, these benefits have virtually no negative impact. The latest range of Mercedes-Benz 4MATIC models are just as comfortable and powerful as their rear-drive counterparts. They offer the same boot capacity and the same appointment levels.

Originally Posted by audiusa.com

When Audi introduced quattro® at the World Rally Championship, the result was an astounding 24 wins over the next 4 years. quattro® dominated the WRC, Pikes Peak hill climb, IMSA-GTO and TransAm series until it was later deemed an unfair advantage and banned from road racing altogether.

In Audi vehicles with a front longitudinal engine configuration, quattro® is a mechanical system with a self-locking center differential and continuously variable torque distribution. The system can send up to 60 percent of the power to the front axle and up to 80 percent of power to the rear axle, as needed. Thanks to a 40:60 rear default torque bias, the latest version of quattro® offers more balanced handling than it ever has before.

Audi quattro®. The traction to confidently use more of the engine’s power, more often.

Originally Posted by porsche.com

Fitted as standard on the Panamera 4, Panamera 4S, Panamera GTS and the Panamera Turbo models, Porsche Traction Management (PTM) comprises an active all-wheel drive with electronic and map-controlled multi-plate clutch with automatic brake differential (ABD) and anti-slip regulation (ASR). The electronically controlled multi-plate clutch regulates the distribution of drive force between the permanently driven rear axle and the front axle. Through continuous monitoring of the driving conditions, the electronics are able to respond to a variety of situations. Sensors check, among other variables, the rotation speeds of all four wheels, the longitudinal and lateral acceleration of the vehicle, and the steering angle.

If the rear wheels threaten to spin under acceleration, a greater proportion of drive force is distributed to the front by a more powerful engagement of the multi-plate clutch. In addition, ASR reduces wheel slip. When cornering, the front wheels only ever receive as much drive force as is necessary to maintain optimum lateral stability.

In this way, PTM, in conjunction with the enhanced Porsche Stability Management (PSM), ensures that the perfect distribution of drive is achieved every time: whether on long straights, through tight corners, or on surfaces with different friction coefficients. In this situation, traction is additionally enhanced by the automatic brake differential (ABD). Whenever the brake control systems are required to intervene, PTM decouples the front axle completely so that PSM interventions can take place at each individual wheel.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Here we go again.

Let's see what the people who design and manufacture German sedans have to say on the matter:

And in addition to all of the AWD virtues dunderhi quotes, there is also hydraulic steering!

Originally Posted by jimpal

And in addition to all of the AWD virtues dunderhi quotes, there is also hydraulic steering!

It's easier to copy and paste into quotes than linking into the Flash objects the manufacturers like to use.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Here we go again.

Let's see what the people who design and manufacture German sedans have to say on the matter:

Thanks for your courtesy to make your point of view clear.
It was the BMW developers responsible for the latest M5 that made it clear that somewhere around 400+ hp cars, with torques around 500 nm would be helped by AWD when talking about this format of car.
They decided to have a RWD M5 for the moment.
The quote is somewhere in one of my former posts on this subject.
Stated was the putting on weight before the front axle is something too big a drawback on this kind of car.
So for a 535, which is absolutely not a Dinan staged 550, it is something not to be considered.
I understand your choises and do not have anything to say about them other than having complete understanding and respect.

But come on, a poorly equiped FWD designed car on too big wheels with only 310 hp needing AWD to get around any corner... That kind of car you will not consider for the upcoming 5 years.

^ Yup, "only" 310 hp. Don't you realize that the 535 has even less?


That being said, we need a ****ing sticky for this topic lol

^2

BMW developers responsible for the 535 did decide to offer AWD for the 535. Correct? My Audi A6 had only 275hp and I appreciated my quattro drive. BTW, the A6 came with 19" wheels and I had them swap them out for 18" wheels.

Since BMW didn't kill the rumors of an AWD M5 until the last minute, I suspect the M5 decision had less to do with performance and more to do with not having an xDrive system capable of dealing with 560hp at the time. Don't forget BMW's xDrive allows 100% power to either axle. The M550d coming only with xDrive may be a hint towards the future.


^

Which topic: 535 vs. A6, or RWD vs. AWD?

Originally Posted by dunderhi

^2

BMW developers responsible for the 535 did decide to offer AWD for the 535. Correct? My Audi A6 had only 275hp and I appreciated my quattro drive. BTW, the A6 came with 19" wheels and I had them swap them out for 18" wheels.

Since BMW didn't kill the rumors of an AWD M5 until the last minute, I suspect the M5 decision had less to do with performance and more to do with not having an xDrive system capable of dealing with 560hp at the time. Don't forget BMW's xDrive allows 100% power to either axle. The M550d coming only with xDrive may be a hint towards the future.

^

Which topic: 535 vs. A6, or RWD vs. AWD?

That would be awesome. There is no reason to not use xDrive in high-HP applications.

The torque-vectoring AWD system is the reason why a Nissan GTR can smoke Ferraris 3-4x its MSRP.

There is a reason why Porsche mandates AWD on its Panamera and 911 Turbo models.

Drove them both twice.Try a bumpy road for a mile or two. Both cars had all seasons tires. The 535xi had more road noise, took the bumps harder, was more jittery, and the steering wheel shock in my hand one time. The A6 was clearly the better car on this road. If I owned that car, and on that road, with a friend I would be embarrassed.