Uh-Oh...First 3 Series versus ATS Comparison Test

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

They'd better pray the stereotypical geriatric Cadillac owner likes the ATS or they're going to quickly find there's no buyer for it at all.

If no old men are interested and certainly no young men are interested, holy Toledo what a disaster.

BJ

Young people don't remember why we hate GM, they can definitely buy an ATS.

Look at them buying up Fords and Hyundais.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Young people don't remember why we hate GM, they can definitely buy an ATS.

Look at them buying up Fords and Hyundais.

The CUE is very chic and advanced, although I can see reliability issues. Also I don't think young people who buy Fords and Hyundais will be the same demographics buying ATS.

Having said that, don't be surprised it sells very well. The XTS has show some numbers already. I also think the free iPad is a great marketing idea.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

They'd better pray the stereotypical geriatric Cadillac owner likes the ATS or they're going to quickly find there's no buyer for it at all.

If no old men are interested and certainly no young men are interested, holy Toledo what a disaster.

BJ

The average age of a Cadillac CTS buyer is slightly younger than the average BMW buyer. Additionally the car enthusiast market has aged. The baby boomers who were buying Boss 302 Mustangs, Camaro Z28s and BMW 2002s 40 years ago are now middle aged financially secure, past the stage where they need a practical family car and have never lost their passion for cars and driving. They may not be young but they are a generation younger than the "traditional" Cadillac buyer.
They were never interested in a cars that "ride like a Cadillac" with pillow soft suspensions and they still aren't. The Cadillac CTS, and particularly the CTS-V does not appeal to, and are not being purchased by, traditional Cadillac buyers and I suspect that the ATS will follow suit.

I think that many of the older Cadillac buyers are buying them grudingly and resent the fact that the cars are not a big and as soft as they would like them to be. Those buyers are getting to be fewer and further between as their generation is dying off,

CA

Originally Posted by samualcc

Cadillac, and in general American "luxury" cars have horrid resale value. Over MSRP? Are you kidding? Pay BMW prices without any of the advantages. There is a reason the CTS is heavily discounted, as are all Cadillac vehicles (CTS-V not included).
.

I looked at KBB:

2010 CTS 3.6 = $24k private party

2010 BMW 335i = $28k private party

These two had about the same MSRP ($41k). Not what I'd call horrid.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

They'd better pray the stereotypical geriatric Cadillac owner likes the ATS or they're going to quickly find there's no buyer for it at all.

If no old men are interested and certainly no young men are interested, holy Toledo what a disaster.

BJ

Cadillac needs to get their ad agency to come up with a catchy commercial to launch the ATS like Kia has their hamsters to attract a younger audience. Or, maybe they could use "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan since BMW doesn't need it any longer with their new cars that ride like the "Luxury" Cadillacs their Grandparents and Great Grandparents use to own.

Originally Posted by beden1

Cadillac needs to get their ad agency to come up with a catchy commercial to launch the ATS like Kia has their hamsters to attract a younger audience. Or, maybe they could use "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan since BMW doesn't need it any longer with their new cars that ride like the "Luxury" Cadillacs their Grandparents and Great Grandparents use to own.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Originally Posted by beden1

Cadillac needs to get their ad agency to come up with a catchy commercial to launch the ATS like Kia has their hamsters to attract a younger audience. Or, maybe they could use "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan since BMW doesn't need it any longer with their new cars that ride like the "Luxury" Cadillacs their Grandparents and Great Grandparents use to own.

I thought the global driving commercials were cool, kind of like BMW used to make, when driving fun was the highest priority.

Originally Posted by beden1

I guess white must be a special color for Cadillac to charge $995. Whereas Radiant Silver, Opulent Blue & Glacier Blue are free ? It's intriguing.

Originally Posted by beden1

Cadillac needs to get their ad agency to come up with a catchy commercial to launch the ATS like Kia has their hamsters to attract a younger audience. Or, maybe they could use "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan since BMW doesn't need it any longer with their new cars that ride like the "Luxury" Cadillacs their Grandparents and Great Grandparents use to own.

Been saying it since 2006. The BMW 3 Series is a German luxury car, nothing more. This fascination with "sports enthusiasm" is a quaint relic from the E36 days, before the car puffed up and got comfortable for the yuppie demo it caters to. I drove up behind an E36 today. My car could swallow it whole, I think it could fit in the F30's trunk.

There's nothing Cadillac can do to overcome 30 years of lousy carmaking. BMW, to its credit, has spent millions perpetuating the "sportscar" myth and that carries far more street cred than GM making a quality automobile.

BJ

Originally Posted by bayoucity

I guess white must be a special color for Cadillac to charge $995. Whereas Radiant Silver, Opulent Blue & Glacier Blue are free ? It's intriguing.

(Eureka! You hit the jackpot! It's the younger generation, charge 'em more! BJ)

A vintage cream-colored leather jacket and a similarly-hued 2002 Cadillac DeVille, both inherited from his grandfather, define Phillip Academy senior John Ingram's personal style. "I don't really wear [the jacket] that much," said Ingram, but the story behind the jacket and the car reveals a close personal connection between Ingram's style and the influence of his family. "My grandfather bought the car in 2004, but he really shouldn't be driving anymore, so my family politely took the car from him. I got it last summer. [It was a] mutual agreement," said Ingram.

He named his car "Teddy" after his grandfather, whose name is "Theodore."

When asked to describe the car, Ingram said, "[It is] creamy white. Very, very white." After a pause, he added, "Grandpa white."

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

(Eureka! You hit the jackpot! It's the younger generation, charge 'em more! BJ)

A vintage cream-colored leather jacket and a similarly-hued 2002 Cadillac DeVille, both inherited from his grandfather, define Phillip Academy senior John Ingram's personal style. "I don't really wear [the jacket] that much," said Ingram, but the story behind the jacket and the car reveals a close personal connection between Ingram's style and the influence of his family. "My grandfather bought the car in 2004, but he really shouldn't be driving anymore, so my family politely took the car from him. I got it last summer. [It was a] mutual agreement," said Ingram.

He named his car "Teddy" after his grandfather, whose name is "Theodore."

When asked to describe the car, Ingram said, "[It is] creamy white. Very, very white." After a pause, he added, "Grandpa white."

BJ

So, the kid and his parents stole his grandfather's car and probably stuck him in a nursing home. Real nice. I hope the kid flunks out of college and has to live in his parent's basement until he's 45 when he does the same thing to them. What goes around...!

Nice Spock hair cut you D_ CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Chris90

I looked at KBB:

2010 CTS 3.6 = $24k private party

2010 BMW 335i = $28k private party

These two had about the same MSRP ($41k). Not what I'd call horrid.

Resale value is so yesterday, residual value is so in these days.

ALG rated ATS's residual value at 65% in 3 years (higher than C class and A4, likely equal to the new 3 series if not better), which will be used by banks to set the ATS lease programs:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...cadillac-leasi

Originally Posted by dtc100

Resale value is so yesterday, residual value is so in these days.

ALG rated ATS's residual value at 65% in 3 years (higher than C class and A4, likely equal to the new 3 series if not better), which will be used by banks to set the ATS lease programs:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...cadillac-leasi

No doubt financially supported by GM to move more cars.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Been saying it since 2006. The BMW 3 Series is a German luxury car, nothing more. This fascination with "sports enthusiasm" is a quaint relic from the E36 days, before the car puffed up and got comfortable for the yuppie demo it caters to. I drove up behind an E36 today. My car could swallow it whole, I think it could fit in the F30's trunk.

There's nothing Cadillac can do to overcome 30 years of lousy carmaking. BMW, to its credit, has spent millions perpetuating the "sportscar" myth and that carries far more street cred than GM making a quality automobile.

BJ

Our E60 '08 535xi is actually quite sporty in performance. The F10 5 Series not so much so. I was out taking a spin today in my Porsche and stopped into my local BMW dealer to order some new front winter floor mats. While there, I took a new 535xi for a spin. It felt like a Cadillac of yore. Very sad indeed.

Originally Posted by beden1

No doubt financially supported by GM to move more cars.

Why will they do that? Won't GM take a bath if the resale value is 50% in 3 years? Again, it isn't surprising consider how many questionable decisions they made over decades.

Originally Posted by beden1

No doubt financially supported by GM to move more cars.

You mean ALG is financially supported by GM? Either every car company supports ALG, or no one does, at least that is how I look at it. How would MB feel when they have to use the ALG rating to compete with ATS, if ALG is supported by GM?

Having a healthy residual gives Caddy a lot more room to play with. If ATS sales are hot, they don't have to offer any lease incentives, rather keep profit margin high. If ATS sales lags, they can subsidize the ATS leases to get the numbers up. There are already pretty attractive XTS leases out there, even though XTS sales has been very good so far. ATS having so much higher residual rating than XTS positions it very well.

Originally Posted by beden1

So, the kid and his parents stole his grandfather's car and probably stuck him in a nursing home. Real nice. I hope the kid flunks out of college and has to live in his parent's basement until he's 45 'swhen he does the same thing to them. What goes around...!

Nice Spock hair cut you D_ CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The nicer the cars the more likely this happens. That's why most older guys drive Buick's.

You?

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

(Eureka! You hit the jackpot! It's the younger generation, charge 'em more! BJ)

A vintage cream-colored leather jacket and a similarly-hued 2002 Cadillac DeVille, both inherited from his grandfather, define Phillip Academy senior John Ingram's personal style. "I don't really wear [the jacket] that much," said Ingram, but the story behind the jacket and the car reveals a close personal connection between Ingram's style and the influence of his family. "My grandfather bought the car in 2004, but he really shouldn't be driving anymore, so my family politely took the car from him. I got it last summer. [It was a] mutual agreement," said Ingram.

He named his car "Teddy" after his grandfather, whose name is "Theodore."

When asked to describe the car, Ingram said, "[It is] creamy white. Very, very white." After a pause, he added, "Grandpa white."

BJ

His friends must hate him, sliding around on the slippery leather in the back seat. A buddy who just retired has a recent DTS or something, when he drove to lunch we'd be sliding around in the back seat.

I'm so glad the rest of the car world has moved away from the slippery leather crap.

And then we wonder what is wrong with America? Its kids like him, ACCEPTING and NAMING a old man's car. I would not be caught dead at his age driving that. I would have rather have walked.

Originally Posted by beden1

So, the kid and his parents stole his grandfather's car and probably stuck him in a nursing home. Real nice. I hope the kid flunks out of college and has to live in his parent's basement until he's 45 when he does the same thing to them. What goes around...!

Nice Spock hair cut you D_ CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by windsor027

And then we wonder what is wrong with America? Its kids like him, ACCEPTING and NAMING a old man's car. I would not be caught dead at his age driving that. I would have rather have walked.

I honestly don't know where you guys are coming from.

The kid is a student at Phillips Academy an exclusive prep school in Andover Mass. It costs about $50,000/year to go to Phillips Academy. I would guess that this young man's family would not need to "steal" from his grandfather to provide him with a car.

I don't know the history of the grandfather but it is not out of the realm of possibility that taking the car away from him was a good idea for his own safety and the safety of others on the road. Anyone who has had to deal with a parent or grandparent with Alzheimers will understand exactly what I am talking about.

When I was 17 I would have gladly accepted any car that my parents gave me and would have been honored to have been given a car that had belonged to my grandfather (who was one of my closest friends) when he was unable to drive anymore. I still have a jacket that belonged to my grandfather.

CA

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The nicer the cars the more likely this happens. That's why most older guys drive Buick's.

You?

BJ

That's why I'm driving great cars now before they try to take my license away someday.

Before I get closer to that truth, I'll just get a Florida license. Judging from the drivers I see down there, I don't think they take anybody's license away regardless of how old or feeble they are.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I honestly don't know where you guys are coming from.

The kid is a student at Phillips Academy an exclusive prep school in Andover Mass. It costs about $50,000/year to go to Phillips Academy. I would guess that this young man's family would not need to "steal" from his grandfather to provide him with a car.

I don't know the history of the grandfather but it is not out of the realm of possibility that taking the car away from him was a good idea for his own safety and the safety of others on the road.

When I was 17 I would have gladly accepted any car that my parents gave me and would have been honored to have been given a car that had belong to my grandfather (who was one of my closest friends) when he was unable to drive anymore. I still have a jacket that belonged to my grandfather.

CA

How do you explain that this stellar young man also took his grandfather's favorite jacket from him?

Originally Posted by beden1

Our E60 '08 535xi is actually quite sporty in performance. The F10 5 Series not so much so. I was out taking a spin today in my Porsche and stopped into my local BMW dealer to order some new front winter floor mats. While there, I took a new 535xi for a spin. It felt like a Cadillac of yore. Very sad indeed.

This. It's exactly why I bought a CTS a little more than two years ago. I was sure that I was going to replace my E60 with the new F10, but that was before a few test drives. The Caddy felt and performed closer to the way my beloved E60 did than the F10; far closer. With the FE3 Sport package, LSD, Summer performance tires and Recaro 14 way adjustable seats (very much like the comfort seats in the 5er,) it has been quite a performer for its size.

I think the ATS will be very competitive with the new 3er. That being said, I'll be replacing my Caddy with the F30 next year for at least 3 reasons. 1) European Delivery. 2) the new 3er retains enough of the traditional BMW feel and performance to bring me back. 3) the F30's improvements in interior space, cargo space, exterior and interior design, along with its technological upgrades, make me love this car; whereas the E90 just never did "move" me. If it weren't for Euro Delivery, I'd be giving the ATS a look, but I think, from what I've read, interior and cargo space could be a deal breaker.

.