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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1026  
Old 09-26-2012, 10:45 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Anyone test drive the ATS yet? They are just getting them at the dealerships. I am curious of what you think compared to the F30.
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  #1027  
Old 09-26-2012, 10:47 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Here it is, MT head to head, ATS 2.0T vs. F30 328i, manual Only.



ATS lets itself down with bad MT tranny, which is not a surprise. Several reviews mentioned it, Top Gear even advised not to buy an ATS MT.

But all of them loved the ATS AT, particularly its sport mode. Hope they do AT vs. AT soon.

How did GM screw up the MT though, not as if they don't know how to?
That review was kind of meh. Seems like they liked the ATS chassis more than the BMW and stated that it is a "sportier" car but hated the transmission.
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  #1028  
Old 09-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Here it is, MT head to head, ATS 2.0T vs. F30 328i, manual Only.



ATS lets itself down with bad MT tranny, which is not a surprise. Several reviews mentioned it, Top Gear even advised not to buy an ATS MT.

But all of them loved the ATS AT, particularly its sport mode. Hope they do AT vs. AT soon.

How did GM screw up the MT though, not as if they don't know how to?
He really rips on the ATS MT doesn't he? I'd have to take a test drive but if it's as bad as he says, that's a real deal killer for me. He also had some bad things to say about the BMW MT and referred to older MT's in the same way but IMO the MT in my E90 328 is a thing of beauty. It's precise and accurate. Last, he mentioned the ATS had the magnetic suspension. This is only available in the Turbo Premium version which is over $44K without sunroof or metallic paint and is not available with the tech package (Driver Assist) when ordered with MT. Get the AT, Driver Assist, sunroof and heated seats and you are looking at $50,660.00 retail. That's right up there with a loaded 328i Sportline.
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  #1029  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
He really rips on the ATS MT doesn't he? I'd have to take a test drive but if it's as bad as he says, that's a real deal killer for me. He also had some bad things to say about the BMW MT and referred to older MT's in the same way but IMO the MT in my E90 328 is a thing of beauty. It's precise and accurate. Last, he mentioned the ATS had the magnetic suspension. This is only available in the Turbo Premium version which is over $44K without sunroof or metallic paint and is not available with the tech package (Driver Assist) when ordered with MT. Get the AT, Driver Assist, sunroof and heated seats and you are looking at $50,660.00 retail. That's right up there with a loaded 328i Sportline.
yea I don't get what he was trying to say about the BMW MT. personally I love it, I think its direct, very rarely do you miss a gear, and great all around. And dare i say if he tested the autos, again BMW has the better one? Anyway I have not driven an ATS and don't plan to any time soon. However from what i am hearing the shocks are damn special, maybe BMW needs to look into this technology.
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  #1030  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:20 AM
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If the reviewer doesn't like a BMW manual, his opinion on manuals is worthless.
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  #1031  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:20 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
He really rips on the ATS MT doesn't he? I'd have to take a test drive but if it's as bad as he says, that's a real deal killer for me. He also had some bad things to say about the BMW MT and referred to older MT's in the same way but IMO the MT in my E90 328 is a thing of beauty. It's precise and accurate. Last, he mentioned the ATS had the magnetic suspension. This is only available in the Turbo Premium version which is over $44K without sunroof or metallic paint and is not available with the tech package (Driver Assist) when ordered with MT. Get the AT, Driver Assist, sunroof and heated seats and you are looking at $50,660.00 retail. That's right up there with a loaded 328i Sportline.
The non-magnetic sport suspension in the ATS had great reviews too, as good as the MRC in daily driving. I agree though it is a major screw up not to put the best MT in there.

Luckily most of us will never see either an F30 MT nor ATS MT.
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  #1032  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:51 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The non-magnetic sport suspension in the ATS had great reviews too, as good as the MRC in daily driving. I agree though it is a major screw up not to put the best MT in there.

Luckily most of us will never see either an F30 MT nor ATS MT.

Not true on this forum although I'm disappointed that so many seem to be opting for the 8AT, even though it's a great slushbox. Personally, if I were to get an F30 after my E90 lease ends 100% it would have a MT.
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  #1033  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:52 AM
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At least in our M3, I have found the MT to be a bit notchy at times and the shifter linkage could use a shorter throw. The clutch pedal action is good. I much preferred the MT in my ZO6 (sometimes notchy until I would row though the gears a bit with the clutch pedal depressed), and I now much prefer the MT in my Porsche (very smooth and has a great touch - very easy to manipulate) more than the ZO6.

Last edited by beden1; 09-26-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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  #1034  
Old 09-26-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Here it is, MT head to head, ATS 2.0T vs. F30 328i, manual Only.



ATS lets itself down with bad MT tranny, which is not a surprise. Several reviews mentioned it, Top Gear even advised not to buy an ATS MT.
So that's it then. BMW 3 Series still the champ, Cadillac ATS still for gramps.

Can you ask the mods to close this thread now?

Thanks.

BJ
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  #1035  
Old 09-26-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
yea I don't get what he was trying to say about the BMW MT. personally I love it, I think its direct, very rarely do you miss a gear, and great all around. And dare i say if he tested the autos, again BMW has the better one? Anyway I have not driven an ATS and don't plan to any time soon. However from what i am hearing the shocks are damn special, maybe BMW needs to look into this technology.
The GM magnetic shocks are amazing. BMW should license this technology (Ferrari already does).

Is GM using their own tranny in the ATS or outsourcing it? I believe the ATS steering mechanism is sourced from ZF, who also provide the 8 Speed AT for the F30.

CA
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  #1036  
Old 09-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
So that's it then. BMW 3 Series still the champ, Cadillac ATS still for gramps.

Can you ask the mods to close this thread now?

Thanks.

BJ
Lmao! Great quote
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  #1037  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:02 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
At least in our M3, I have found the MT to be a bit notchy at times and the shifter linkage could use a shorter throw. The clutch pedal action is good. I much preferred the MT in my ZO6 (sometimes notchy until I would row though the gears a bit with the clutch pedal depressed), and I now much prefer the MT in my Porsche (very smooth and has a great touch - very easy to manipulate) more than the ZO6.
The Chevy Cruze Eco's 6MT was the most fluid MT I had driven, during the 6 months I was driving it for work. Although it was geared for fuel economy, not performance.

I am thinking GM had given up on MT for ATS, they did not even bother to offer MT for the 3.6 and 2.5. The 2.5 probably can use the MT the most. On the flip side, since they clearly did not make much effort on the MT tranny, they had to pour more resources into the AT, so the AT buyers might have lucked out.

I mean they have to, else how are they going to sell it?
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  #1038  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The Chevy Cruze Eco's 6MT was the most fluid MT I had driven, during the 6 months I was driving it for work. Although it was geared for fuel economy, not performance.

I am thinking GM had given up on MT for ATS, they did not even bother to offer MT for the 3.6 and 2.5. The 2.5 probably can use the MT the most. On the flip side, since they clearly did not make much effort on the MT tranny, they had to pour more resources into the AT, so the AT buyers might have lucked out.

I mean they have to, else how are they going to sell it?
Makes sense, old people would prefer an auto over a manual.
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  #1039  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:30 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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If the reviewer doesn't like a BMW manual, his opinion on manuals is worthless.
I though that was odd myself.
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  #1040  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:32 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
So that's it then. BMW 3 Series still the champ, Cadillac ATS still for gramps.

Can you ask the mods to close this thread now?

Thanks.

BJ
LOL, no. The ATS has a better chassis, suspension and steering.

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 09-26-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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  #1041  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:45 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Makes sense, old people would prefer an auto over a manual.
Don't be so sure. Younger people these days can't be bothered with MT, while they have so many others things to do than driving, while driving.

I just realized one thing, GM has not even delivered the first production 2.0T manual model yet. The test car in this MT video is a preproduction car. Improvement could be made in the final productions.

Still, there is no excuse to release such a manual tranny.
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  #1042  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:47 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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LOL, no. The ATS has a better chassis, suspension and steering.
Which was why I hope they do the AT vs. AT soon. The slower 0-60 time had to do again with the gearing in the ATS's MT.
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  #1043  
Old 09-26-2012, 02:00 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Makes sense, old people would prefer an auto over a manual.
I am not convinced that is the case altough I have no statistics to back it up.

Us Baby Boomers (who are now becoming "older people") learned to drive in an era when manual transmissions were very common and many have been driving MTs for years and are MT diehards. I would venture to guess that it is more likely to find a 50 year old that is an expert with an MT than a 20 year old.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 09-26-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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  #1044  
Old 09-26-2012, 02:09 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Now what's up with the 0.70 and 0.71 Gs both cars pulled in that video? Are those lateral Gs?

Last edited by dtc100; 09-26-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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  #1045  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I am not convinced that is the case altough I have no statistics to back it up.

Us Baby Boomers (who are now becoming "older people") learned to drive in an era when manual transmissions were very common and many have been driving MTs for years and are MT diehards. I would venture to guess that it is more likely to find a 50 year old that is an expert with an MT than a 20 year old.

CA
I totally agree Captain this soon to be 50 year old if given a choice will never drive a AT again. And my daughters I already told them they better learn to drive a manual if they want their father to get them wheels. And yes they will be manuals....

Thinking couple of nice used E90s 328i manual sport.
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Last edited by windsor027; 09-26-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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  #1046  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The Chevy Cruze Eco's 6MT was the most fluid MT I had driven, during the 6 months I was driving it for work. Although it was geared for fuel economy, not performance.

I am thinking GM had given up on MT for ATS, they did not even bother to offer MT for the 3.6 and 2.5. The 2.5 probably can use the MT the most. On the flip side, since they clearly did not make much effort on the MT tranny, they had to pour more resources into the AT, so the AT buyers might have lucked out.

I mean they have to, else how are they going to sell it?
There is a big difference driving a MT in a car with 400-500+ HP/torque than there is driving a Chevy Cruze. I would hope the Chevy Cruise was "fluid" because there were no torque demands placed on it.

The car with the easiest MT I ever drove to this day is a VW bug from the 1960's-1970's (again, very little torque demands).
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  #1047  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
There is a big difference driving a MT in a car with 400-500+ HP/torque than there is driving a Chevy Cruze. I would hope the Chevy Cruise was "fluid" because there were no torque demands placed on it.

The car with the easiest MT I ever drove to this day is a VW bug from the 1960's-1970's (again, very little torque demands).
Very good point. By far the smoothest most direct MT I have driven believe it or not was the A3 I rented in Greece last month. It was a 1.4 L. Basically the thing shifted itself.
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  #1048  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:44 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
I totally agree Captain this soon to be 50 year old if given a choice will never drive a AT again. And my daughters I already told them they better learn to drive a manual if they want their father to get them wheels. And yes they will be manuals....

Thinking couple of nice used E90s 328i manual sport.
I made the choice and chose an AT. I drove an MTs for years and still drive a track car (Spec Miata) with an MT.
I am very comfortable with MTs and am proficient at heel and toe and double clutching.

My street cars are all ATs and I will probably never purchase an MT as a street car again.

Been there.

Done that.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 09-26-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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  #1049  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I made the choice and chose an AT. I drove an MTs for years and still drive a track car (Spec Miata) with an MT.
I am very comfortable with MTs and am proficient at heel and toe and double clutching.

My street cars are all ATs and I will probably never purchase an MT as a street car again.

Been there.

Done that.

CA
yea but you still get your kicks at the track. I don't even though I have toyed with the idea. My wife, love her to death, when I met her she said to me, get ride of the bike and please don't ever race. I was a fool and said I give you my word. 21 years later, I love her more than ever so I still need the manual...
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  #1050  
Old 09-26-2012, 04:00 PM
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Very good point. By far the smoothest most direct MT I have driven believe it or not was the A3 I rented in Greece last month. It was a 1.4 L. Basically the thing shifted itself.
Just so happened the Cruze Eco also has a 1.4L turbo.
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