Uh-Oh...First 3 Series versus ATS Comparison Test

Originally Posted by windsor027

yea but you still get your kicks at the track. I don't even though I have toyed with the idea. My wife, love her to death, when I met her she said to me, get ride of the bike and please don't ever race. I was a fool and said I give you my word. 21 years later, I love her more than ever so I still need the manual...

Tell her autox is not race. Once she gets used to that, move on to the track

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Makes sense, old people would prefer an auto over a manual.

I'm calling on this. On the GT forums there are plenty of old codgers, like myself, choosing to "row" the gears.

.

If your younger than 60 then i dont consider you old.

It could be those age 47 (like those who drive BMWs) are more likely to drive an AT. Most of them have to battle traffic during commute, and spouses who they must please, both factors are against having an MT.

Those who are older don't have to deal with traffic, or listen to their wives anymore

Originally Posted by dtc100

It could be those age 47 (like those who drive BMWs) are more likely to drive an AT. Most of them have to battle traffic during commute, and spouses who they must please, both factors are against having an MT.

Those who are older don't have to deal with traffic, or listen to their wives anymore

No, we still have to listen to our wives. It's just that we make sure they also have the car of their dreams.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

If your younger than 60 then i dont consider you old.

Yeah...I'm still not considered old! I tell my kids that I'm still too young to be a grandparent. Maybe in 10-15 years I'll be ready.

Originally Posted by beden1

No, we still have to listen to our wives. It's just that we make sure they also have the car of their dreams.

My point exactly. Older drivers can afford to buy their wives their dream cars, or dream whatever, so the guys don't have to hear their wives bitching at what cars they drive

The 47 year olds likely have not reached that level, and still must share the car with the wife, or listen to them riding shotgun.

Ms. Audio is perfectly comfortable driving an MT. We shared MT cars for years.

CA

That MT reviewer sucks, he said BMW manuals were always bad. And he said the ATS needs to shift into 4th at 55mph, and that it has more power in 2nd gear. Duh, cause 2nd gear (not 4th) is shorter than the BMW.

MT is a waste of paper.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

If your younger than 60 then i dont consider you old.

"A man's only as old as the woman he feels".

Groucho

Originally Posted by Chris90

That MT reviewer sucks, he said BMW manuals were always bad. And he said the ATS needs to shift into 4th at 55mph, and that it has more power in 2nd gear. Duh, cause 2nd gear (not 4th) is shorter than the BMW.

MT is a waste of paper.

You have a point there, I found it hard to believe they could not reach 60mph in 3rd gear.

FWIW If I pushed the redline I could reach 60 mph in 3rd gear in my 1992 honda civic.

If anyone saw it, Motorweek also gave the ATS a glowing review. Whether the ATS edges out the 3-series or comes up just short doesn't really matter. It is clear that with the ATS Cadillac has "announced its presence with authority." The ATS is a serious car that presents BMW with some very real competition. BMW had better keep its eye on the ball.

Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Ms. Audio is perfectly comfortable driving an MT. We shared MT cars for years.

CA

Same for my wife. Quite comfortable shifting for herself. Her biggest issue is getting the tranny into reverse. She needs 2 hands to overcome the spring.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Ms. Audio is perfectly comfortable driving an MT. We shared MT cars for years.

CA

I think my wife is more excited to get to drive a MT again after almost 3 years without one than I. She has already announced she is driving the car for the foreseeable future. I guess I am stuck with the X5..LOL

We akways had Manual Transmission cars in NYC and AT cars (generally Jaguars) in Florida. The lastest Jaguar, an XKR with the ZF AT and paddle shifters) really made us think twice about whether we should get an AT or an MT when we purchased the 335i.

We did a bit of research and test drove both. As much as I liked the XKR I was convinced that a "real driver" drove an MT. At the time we were orderng the 335i we were at a party at a friends home and the AT vs. MT subject came up in conversation. As it turned out the best and most experienced drivers allmost exclusively had ATs in their street cars. We ordered the 335i with a Steptronic and I have never regretted that decision.

I totally understand why some people prefer MTs and would never try to talk somebody out of one but at this stage I really don't see any advantage to an MT other than personal preference. I do think, however, that learning how to drive an MT is valuable skill to master if you are serious about driving and want to learn car conrol and vehicle dynamics.

I also think that some cars are meant to have ATs (i.e. the 750iL) some are meant to have MTs (i.e. Miatas) and some match up well with either (i.e. a 3 Series).

CA

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

It is clear that with the ATS Cadillac has "announced its presence with authority." The ATS is a serious car that presents BMW with some very real competition. BMW had better keep its eye on the ball.

Ha ha ha. Very funny, good one.

Cadillac has just gone down the Honda Element rabbit hole, designing a car to find out there's no audience. The Element was going to be a 22 year old's surfboard carrier at the beach and instead turned out to be his grandfathers wheelchair transport at the old age home. Suicide doors, carpetless vinyl flooring, low-riding running boards, what was supposed to be a college boys shag-wagon was a total misread and a colossal bust.

Cadillac's core customer is a 65 year old who likes a large, spongy ride. Yeah, so let's make a small, firm car. The Cadillac owner just discovered the internet, is afraid of cellphones. Cool, so let's fill the car with gadgetry. The Cadillac brand represents passivity and relaxation. Great, so let's make an edgy sportscar.

Going after the BMW 3 Series is a daunting enough challenge without making all these mistakes, going to be epic with them.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Cadillac has just gone down the Honda Element rabbit hole, designing a car to find out there's no audience.

Cadillac's core customer is a 65 year old who likes a large, spongy ride. Yeah, so let's make a small, firm car. The Cadillac owner just discovered the internet, is afraid of cellphones. Cool, so let's fill the car with gadgetry. The Cadillac brand represents passivity and relaxation. Great, so let's make an edgy sportscar.

Going after the BMW 3 Series is a daunting enough challenge without making all these mistakes, going to be epic with them.

Can you think of a car that gets great reviews but nobody buys? A large portion of BMW's popularity is that it gets great reviews by car magazines that take it to the track, and praise it's sporty pretensions. If the Cadillac gets a lot of press about beating the 3 series, people will buy it, it won't be a failure.

You're forgetting there's a lot of Americans who feel a little patriotism, give them an excuse to buy an American car and they'll do it.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Ha ha ha. Very funny, good one.

Cadillac has just gone down the Honda Element rabbit hole, designing a car to find out there's no audience. The Element was going to be a 22 year old's surfboard carrier at the beach and instead turned out to be his grandfathers wheelchair transport at the old age home. Suicide doors, carpetless vinyl flooring, low-riding running boards, what was supposed to be a college boys shag-wagon was a total misread and a colossal bust.

Cadillac's core customer is a 65 year old who likes a large, spongy ride. Yeah, so let's make a small, firm car. The Cadillac owner just discovered the internet, is afraid of cellphones. Cool, so let's fill the car with gadgetry. The Cadillac brand represents passivity and relaxation. Great, so let's make an edgy sportscar.

Going after the BMW 3 Series is a daunting enough challenge without making all these mistakes, going to be epic with them.

BJ

BMW is not exacly immune to releasing a car that has no audience.



CA

Originally Posted by Chris90

Can you think of a car that gets great reviews but nobody buys? A large portion of BMW's popularity is that it gets great reviews by car magazines that take it to the track, and praise it's sporty pretensions. If the Cadillac gets a lot of press about beating the 3 series, people will buy it, it won't be a failure.

You're forgetting there's a lot of Americans who feel a little patriotism, give them an excuse to buy an American car and they'll do it.

I am surprised even Chris90 could not find BJ's latest post funny anymore

Originally Posted by captainaudio

BMW is not exacly immune to releasing a car that has no audience.



CA

bunch of those where i live

Originally Posted by justinnum1

bunch of those where i live

Just goes to show people in your neck of the woods are not representative of the usual BMW demographics

Originally Posted by justinnum1

bunch of those where i live

I just saw my first one parked at the mall yesterday. It had wheels that looked like those on the VW GTi. Definitely a strange vehicle.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

We akways had Manual Transmission cars in NYC and AT cars (generally Jaguars) in Florida. The lastest Jaguar, an XKR with the ZF AT and paddle shifters) really made us think twice about whether we should get an AT or an MT when we purchased the 335i.

We did a bit of research and test drove both. As much as I liked the XKR I was convinced that a "real driver" drove an MT. At the time we were orderng the 335i we were at a party at a friends home and the AT vs. MT subject came up in conversation. As it turned out the best and most experienced drivers allmost exclusively had ATs in their street cars. We ordered the 335i with a Steptronic and I have never regretted that decision.

I totally understand why some people prefer MTs and would never try to talk somebody out of one but at this stage I really don't see any advantage to an MT other than personal preference. I do think, however, that learning how to drive an MT is valuable skill to master if you are serious about driving and want to learn car conrol and vehicle dynamics.

I also think that some cars are meant to have ATs (i.e. the 750iL) some are meant to have MTs (i.e. Miatas) and some match up well with either (i.e. a 3 Series).
CA

Right! My wife's everyday car has an AT, as does our Tahoe and Suburban. But, I always have a fun car with a manual transmission like my ZO6 did and now my 911 does. For me, MT are just more engaging and fun to drive, when I'm looking to have fun driving my car.

Originally Posted by beden1

Right! My wife's everyday car has an AT, as does our Tahoe and Suburban. But, I always have a fun car with a manual transmission like my ZO6 did and now my 911 does. For me, MT are just more engaging and fun to drive, when I'm looking to have fun driving my car.

Our other car is an AT Subaru Outback - I'd never want a manual in that car, what's the point?

It's kind of sad that the 3 series is now getting so soft and boaty that people are like "why have a manual in this car, what's the point?"

Originally Posted by Chris90

Our other car is an AT Subaru Outback - I'd never want a manual in that car, what's the point?

It's kind of sad that the 3 series is now getting so soft and boaty that people are like "why have a manual in this car, what's the point?"

I had a MT Subaru Outback, and loved it. That is the point Chris. Its what you love to drive.