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  #126  
Old 06-22-2004, 10:19 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
I really doubt it.

I think most drivers would have gotten a drive-through for playing it that close.
You are free to doubt anything you like

I am giving you the official facts, you are making an assumption.
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  #127  
Old 06-22-2004, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
You are free to doubt anything you like

I am giving you the official facts, you are making an assumption.
Official facts seem to vary on when you hear them. They don't seem to have a time limit on revising "official" timing.

And we're both speculating. You specualte that if Ferrari had done something egregious, we would see a pentaly. I'm saying I doubt that.

And I still think Barrichello's trick getting MS out is more detrimental to the spirit of racing than 17 seconds to dash to a spare car, and should be legislated out.
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  #128  
Old 06-22-2004, 10:33 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
Official facts seem to vary on when you hear them. They don't seem to have a time limit on revising "official" timing.

And we're both speculating. You specualte that if Ferrari had done something egregious, we would see a pentaly. I'm saying I doubt that.

And I still think Barrichello's trick getting MS out is more detrimental to the spirit of racing than 17 seconds to dash to a spare car, and should be legislated out.
I am not speculating. I am relying on the timing that is measured by the official organization who is responsible for the series, namely FIA. Yeah, Ferrari owns FIA, FIA is a mafia organization, FIA is this, FIA is dat. I don't give a sh-it what people says. We have no other choice at the moment, other than believing the official statements made by FIA, the only authority for the time being.

None of the teams made a buzz about this passing. Every team has their own timing equipment in their cars and measure the time better anyone else. Do we know better than they do ?
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  #129  
Old 06-22-2004, 10:56 AM
Patrick Patrick is offline
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Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
The official live timing showed MS as second and RB as first. Noone corrected and changed anything. Period.

You guys are trying too hard to prove that Michael is winning with illegal methods. Who used illegal brake ducts ?

Michael's attempt was very risky and he had a big huge luck. Had Rubens lifted his right foot from the gas for just the fraction of a second, we would've seen a driver-through penalty for Michael.
I won't comment anymore about the FIA "timing" error, because it is obvious to me now that the Finnish media hates Spoonface so much that they just make these things up to make us here in Finland feel better about how bad Mclaren is.

However, it is amusing how YOU are always only trying to glorify and defend your lackluster champion! "Stand up for the Champion." "Bow to the Champion." LOL. How about, no? Give me Häkkinen, Prost, Mansell, Senna, or Rosberg etc., then sure.

I read today that Spoonface was extremely worried when he heard from the pits that his BROTHER was in a high speed accident, and that he kept asking via the radio, why Ralf was still in the car (as they passed the wreckage behind the SC).

Holy Scheiße man, if that was my brother, I would have parked my car, gotten out and gone to the scene. THAT would have been the sign of a "champion."


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  #130  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:11 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick 520iAT
I won't comment anymore about the FIA "timing" error, because it is obvious to me now that the Finnish media hates Spoonface so much that they just make these things up to make us here in Finland feel better about how bad Mclaren is.

However, it is amusing how YOU are always only trying to glorify and defend your lackluster champion! "Stand up for the Champion." "Bow to the Champion." LOL. How about, no? Give me Häkkinen, Prost, Mansell, Senna, or Rosberg etc., then sure.

I read today that Spoonface was extremely worried when he heard from the pits that his BROTHER was in a high speed accident, and that he kept asking via the radio, why Ralf was still in the car (as they passed the wreckage behind the SC).

Holy Scheiße man, if that was my brother, I would have parked my car, gotten out and gone to the scene. THAT would have been the sign of a "champion."


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What is wrong me cheering when my favorite team wins ?
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  #131  
Old 06-27-2004, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
You're forgetting one thing - per team orders, Reubens will NEVER beat Michael.
Excuse me, so how has RB gotten his 7 wins? ALL have been with Ferrari. And ALL have been with MS on the team. And no, not all of them have been when MS didn't finish, not including the US GP payback for the A1 ring.

Hockenheim 2000 RB 1st, MS 22nd
Nurburing 2002 - RB 1st, MS 2nd
Hungaroring 2002 - RB 1st, MS 2nd
Monza 2002 - RB 1st, MS 2nd
Indy 2002 - Payback
Silverstone 2003 - RB 1st, MS 4th
Suzuka 2003 - RB 1st, MS 8th (but MS only needed 8th to win the championship)
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  #132  
Old 06-27-2004, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
None of the teams made a buzz about this passing. Every team has their own timing equipment in their cars and measure the time better anyone else. Do we know better than they do ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
And I still think Barrichello's trick getting MS out is more detrimental to the spirit of racing than 17 seconds to dash to a spare car, and should be legislated out.
My gripe was not with the passing; it was with Reubens holding the pack up while Schumacher pitted. I am saying that although this is legal, and although taking a hair over 15 seconds to get out of a nonstarting car in order to run to a backup and start from the back is, that the former is more detrimental to the spirit of racing than the latter, and I would be much happier with F1 if I saw a rule to address the former that is as strict as the rule to address the latter.

The passing was in a grey area where the decision was up to the discretion of the stewards, so it's not really contestable once it's made, but it's one where the decision could go either way, IMHO.
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Last edited by The Roadstergal; 06-27-2004 at 07:30 AM.
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  #133  
Old 06-27-2004, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
*race wins*
We were talking about the Driver's Championship.
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  #134  
Old 06-27-2004, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
Yeah, Ferrari owns FIA, FIA is a mafia organization, FIA is this, FIA is dat.
BTW - when did I ever say that?
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  #135  
Old 06-28-2004, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
I am saying that although this is legal, and although taking a hair over 15 seconds to get out of a nonstarting car in order to run to a backup and start from the back is, that the former is more detrimental to the spirit of racing than the latter, and I would be much happier with F1 if I saw a rule to address the former that is as strict as the rule to address the latter.
As I understand it, it was not that he took over 15 seconds to get into the new car, he waited too long to get out of the broken car. He has to be out of the car at least 15 seconds before the field leaves for the parade lap.

Probably for safety, since some of those guys are trying to leave some fresh rubber for their start.
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  #136  
Old 06-28-2004, 04:11 AM
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WILLIA///M WILLIA///M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
As I understand it, it was not that he took over 15 seconds to get into the new car, he waited too long to get out of the broken car. He has to be out of the car at least 15 seconds before the field leaves for the parade lap.

Probably for safety, since some of those guys are trying to leave some fresh rubber for their start.
Correct. The DQ was for getting out of the car (however they determined exactly when that was, when he had both feet out, when he put the steering wheel back on, etc.) 13 seconds before the field left. Which is still and I still contend not a penalty that would have ever been imposed on Spoonface had he been the one sprinting back to his spare car.

But we're not bitter or anything.
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  #137  
Old 06-28-2004, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by WILLIA///M
Correct. The DQ was for getting out of the car (however they determined exactly when that was, when he had both feet out, when he put the steering wheel back on, etc.) 13 seconds before the field left. Which is still and I still contend not a penalty that would have ever been imposed on Spoonface had he been the one sprinting back to his spare car.

But we're not bitter or anything.
So it should have been allowed? Then how about 10 seconds before? Or how about while the cars have started to move?

Sorry, but they have a rule, they applied it, and he ws wrong.

As to whether MS would have been allowed to do it, is moot, until it happens. And considering the reliability of the Ferrari, especially MS's cars, it is unlikely to happen.
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  #138  
Old 06-28-2004, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
So it should have been allowed? Then how about 10 seconds before? Or how about while the cars have started to move?

Sorry, but they have a rule, they applied it, and he ws wrong.

As to whether MS would have been allowed to do it, is moot, until it happens. And considering the reliability of the Ferrari, especially MS's cars, it is unlikely to happen.
Correct. If you read some of the recent commentary, most of the teams and the FIA watch these things. You'd still think that he wouldn't have gotten so far and Williams likely knew it anyway. The fact that it took the FIA so long to put car 3 under investigation is strange. They are saying the accidents caused it to slip through the cracks.
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  #139  
Old 06-28-2004, 07:27 PM
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The odd part of it all is the time it took. My own feeling is that they a) didn't notice or b) didn't think it was significant until another team started making noise.

There does need to be a statute of limitations on something like that. BMW spent a ****load of money running the car for that long.
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  #140  
Old 06-28-2004, 07:57 PM
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Not to bash Ferrari, but had JPM found his way into the lead (say due to fuel strategy) I'm sure Ross Brawn would have been emailing Charlie Whiting. From what I've read they all watch this, so they must have known it. Now, maybe they somehow hoped that it had been overlooked. They might have been dreaming too.
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  #141  
Old 06-29-2004, 07:46 PM
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Dr. Mario Theissen Speaks

From the BMW Motorsport newsletter...

28.06.2004
"You are not always going to be on the ascent"
Although the BMW WilliamsF1 Team is currently facing challenging times, BMW Motorsport Director, Mario Theissen, regards it as an "interesting" situation.

More than four years have passed since Ralf Schumacher took the BMW WilliamsF1 Team's first ever podium at the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne in 2000, the first race for the Anglo-German partnership. Since then the team has made many steps forward, but it has also had to face some tough challenges.

"We have been ahead of plan for the first years, certainly. And it was clear that only in the fourth or fifth year could we challenge for the Championship. In fact last year was the first time we were fully ready to challenge for the Championship," said BMW Motorsport Director, Mario Theissen, reflecting on the Anglo-German alliance.

However, the BMW WilliamsF1 Team has failed to meet its own expectations over the course of this year’s Formula One World Championship season. Theissen doesn't necessarily regard this as an all-negative development, however, "Obviously this season, so far, has been more difficult than what we would have wished, but that's part of the game as well," the German said, "You are not always on the ascent, you will have periods when everything falls into place by itself and then other periods where you have to fight for success. That's what we’re seeing now."

"For the engineers and the technical management, these are the really interesting times," he added, indicating how much effort the BMW WilliamsF1 Team is currently putting in to turning the tables for the forthcoming races.
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