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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 12-04-2014, 07:38 AM
BRB-X5-35d BRB-X5-35d is offline
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Intro and CPO vs. Emissions Warranty Coverage Question

Greetings! This is my first post here, although I have been reading and searching threads here since the purchase of my CPO 2011 X5 diesel in March 2014. It is Deep Sea Blue with Black Nevada interior, with Active Vent/Multi Contour seats, Cold Weather pkg., Premium pkg., Premium Sound pkg., Rear Climate, Technology pkg., Comfort Access, 3rd Row, and HUD. I bought it CPO with 50k miles, and it includes the Maintenance plan, both with coverage through 2017/100k miles. It has complete service history, with all recalls/updates current.

I am very happy with this X5, and it has performed flawlessly, until encountering an intermittent Check Engine light at about 58,000 miles. The dealer determined it was a faulty SCR Passive Tank fill sensor via the code specified test plan. They replaced the SCR Passive Tank and confirmed correct function.

This is where I have a question: I was charged the $50 CPO deductible for this work. I was suspicious of this charge after the fact, as I got to thinking that the SCR system should be covered by the Emissions warranty. According to my manual, since my X5 was delivered new in Massachusetts, and remains registered in MA, it falls under the California emissions warranty program, which as I read it, includes no cost coverage for “SCR Reagent Reservoir” for 7 years/100k miles.

This quoted from the warranty booklet: “The California Emissions Control System Limited Warranty applies to all 2011 US-specification BMW SAV vehicles registered in California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont or Washington”. This leads me to believe that this repair should have been covered at no cost under the “California Emissions Control System Limited Warranty”, and not the CPO Warranty, which subjected me to pay a $50 deductible. Thoughts/experiences on this?

I plan to bring this up with the dealer this Friday, as it goes back in because the Check Engine light has reappeared (intermittently), along with the “Engine Malfunction/Reduced Power” warning 700 miles after the above mentioned repair. I will be sure to get the specific codes this time.

My question is more focused on whether the Emissions Warranty should trump the CPO Warranty in the case of the SCR tank issue. Thanks in advance for any comments.
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2014, 07:55 AM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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I agree. Its should be covered.

Problem is that you've already paid the bill ... it's always more difficult to get the money back after a payment is made. But, who knows, may be you have a cooperative dealer, or they will give you a "shop credit" towards future work. I know it's only $50, but it's the principle of it ... they should know better.

BTW, they may call the $50 a diagnostic fee and try to get away with it. What does your WO say? What did you sign?
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2014, 08:13 AM
BRB-X5-35d BRB-X5-35d is offline
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
I agree. Its should be covered.

Problem is that you've already paid the bill ... it's always more difficult to get the money back after a payment is made. But, who knows, may be you have a cooperative dealer, or they will give you a "shop credit" towards future work. I know it's only $50, but it's the principle of it ... they should know better.

BTW, they may call the $50 a diagnostic fee and try to get away with it. What does your WO say? What did you sign?
Thanks. Yes, it's more the principle than the money. I'll report back the outcome. Below is the WO - clearly says deductible for CPO repair.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2014, 09:30 AM
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Pat_X5 Pat_X5 is offline
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Look at the date of first in service - then add 4 years. If it is past the 4 year mark, then it falls under CPO. It's either years or mileage - whichever comes first....
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:11 AM
BRB-X5-35d BRB-X5-35d is offline
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Originally Posted by Pat_X5 View Post
Look at the date of first in service - then add 4 years. If it is past the 4 year mark, then it falls under CPO. It's either years or mileage - whichever comes first....
From what I can tell by reading the Warranty booklet, emissions components (such as the SCR tank) are covered under the California emissions warranty (which applies to Massachusetts vehicles as well) for 7yrs/100k miles. Emissions warranty is separate from the regular new car 4yr/50k mile warranty, as far as I can tell.

In service date : 1/3/2011

If I am reading this wrong, I am all ears. Thanks.
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Last edited by BRB-X5-35d; 12-04-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:13 AM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRB-X5-35d View Post
From what I can tell by reading the Warranty booklet, emissions components (such as the SCR tank) are covered under the California emissions warranty (which applies to Massachusetts vehicles as well) for 7yrs/100k miles. Emissions warranty is separate from the regular new car 4yr/50k mile warranty, as far as I can tell.

If I am reading this wrong, I am all ears. Thanks.

QED - Quod Erat Demonstrandum
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2014, 12:01 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat_X5 View Post
Look at the date of first in service - then add 4 years. If it is past the 4 year mark, then it falls under CPO. It's either years or mileage - whichever comes first....
Bad advice.


OP, you are correct that it is covered by the "California emissions warranty". (Technically this is a "BMW warranty" that is MANDATED by Massachusetts to be the same as that which the California law requires.)

There should be no deductible. Dealer just pocketed the $50.

HERES THE THING....

I would NOT bring this issue up now. Bring the car in for the CEL, let them diagnose it.... once the dust settles on this, THEN tell them "You owe me $50 for the first visit". I suspect you may have a very large co$t coming up- SCR CAT, etc, etc, depending on how this plays out. (Dealers just run plans and replace what the computer tells them- there have been some impressive parts lists from these efforts.) In other words, dont piss them off right away.

Two things:

1. MAKE THEM right down "same issue as before, CEL light"... You want to create a 'linkage' between the one visit and this return. The SA may say "we dont know that"..say "humor me- to me i tis the same issue, as the CEL came on again with __days of the first repair". Maybe leverage in the future.

2. If he lists a $50 estimate, feel free to cross that out and write "continuation of prior repair- emissions system warranty". Again SA may whine, but at least the documentation will be ambiguous as to your agreement to the charge

Pick your battles. As you can see from a search, there is a potential for massive downside if the dealer doestn have BMW cover this. Arguable the CPO might not cover emissions control parts too (you should carefully read the CPO coverage...)

GL

keep us posted
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Last edited by ard; 12-04-2014 at 12:02 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2014, 01:49 PM
BRB-X5-35d BRB-X5-35d is offline
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^^ Points taken. Thanks.
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2011 Mini Cooper S Ice Blue
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2014, 02:03 PM
BRB-X5-35d BRB-X5-35d is offline
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To follow up on the outcome, I got my X5 back today after dropping it off Friday. The code found was 4BCB (which I can't find reference to), triggered 175 times in 900 miles/one month. This pointed to the SCR passive tank sensor (tank/sensor 19-19-7-222-146 replaced 1 month ago), this time the test plan leading them to the SCR sensor processing unit (16-19-7-227-394). This was ordered and replaced. They did about 90 miles of road testing, and no faults returned. I have about 600 miles to do this coming weekend, so we will see if the fault returns.

I did not bring up my question about CPO vs. Emissions Warranty for the previous repair before this repair. As we were reviewing the paperwork, the SA commented that he was waiving the $50 CPO deductible this time since this repair was related to the first repair. I then brought up that I thought the first repair should have been covered under the emissions warranty, and showed him the booklet. He called the warranty administrator, who said that their billing system "knows" by part number if it is included as part of the emissions warranty, and it would have automatically categorized it as such. My SA, however, applied a $50 credit to my account without batting an eye.

Now, if the above is true, then I think there are some kinks in their system, and my SA said it wouldn't be the first time that that is the case. The point of this story is to make sure you understand your warranty terms - factory, CPO, and emissions, and get proof of any non-coverage charges before handing over money. Whether this was an underhanded attempt to take my $50 (would have been more than 25x that if out of pocket), or a legitimate billing system "bug", I don't really know. In the end, I was treated well by my SA.

BTW, the X5 was due for some CBS service including an oil change (covered under extended maintenance program that came with the car), which they did. Once I drove off I checked I-Drive, and the CBS wasn't reset, so I turned around and had the SA reset it. As he was doing so, the low washer fluid warning came on, so he topped that off as well. He was rather frustrated at the lack of attention to detail by the oil change jockey, and it didn't leave me warm and fuzzy either.
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2011 Mini Cooper S Ice Blue
1984 Porsche 928S Euro Black
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2014, 04:09 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRB-X5-35d View Post
T.... He called the warranty administrator, who said that their billing system "knows" by part number if it is included as part of the emissions warranty, and it would have automatically categorized it as such. .
Glad you were treated well.

I have no doubt this is how they administer the plan- unfortunately that is not how the plan legally binds them. The warrant is words on the paper not code in some hidden computer system.

Ive seen this before, the real issue is when BMW says 'not covered per the computer' and your option is cash. In this case it is money from one big BMW pile, so $50 is nothing for the daeler to eat. Heck, it will cost more than $50 for them to re-file the claim with BMW.

A classic example is brakes. Lets say a brake rotor cracks. Just fails. As long as there is no abuse, and this is due to a metal failure it is 100% warranty. Yet BMWs comuter program will say "brake rotors are not covered by warranty". The issue is that the warranty describes HOW the part must fail, not just what parts are covered.
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