Layover vs Stopover or Open Jaw?

I'm planning my ED trip, and I want to take the wife to Rome. I've heard about Layover, Stopover and Open Jaw.
Does anybody have any information on this and/or what airlines would allow this.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by btboy97

I'm planning my ED trip, and I want to take the wife to Rome. I've heard about Layover, Stopover and Open Jaw.
Does anybody have any information on this and/or what airlines would allow this.
Thanks.

Layover and Stopover are synonyms. A layover/stopover is when you pause at an en-route airport for longer than a regular change of planes, usually days and there is a maximum limit measured in weeks. I.e. on the way back from Europe to Arizona we often stopover in Philadelphia so that my wife can visit her folks. We could equally choose to stopover on the way out.

An open-jaw is when a traveler's itinerary includes a return flight from an airport other than the one they flew to. For example, when we fly to the UK we sometimes fly out from PHX to MAN, and then return from LGW to save a time-wasting trip back to MAN.

AFAIK, most airlines allow one or the other on an itinerary, but most low-cost non-refundable (i.e not premium) ticket fares do not allow both on the same itinerary, and only allow one layover per itinerary. In other words, you can usually add one layover or open-jaw to an itinerary with minimal or zero fare penalty. So, for example, in my illustrations above we have to choose whether to visit my wife's relatives in PHL on the way out or on the way home, or use an open-jaw itinerary and return from Europe from a different airport after a meandering vacation.

There are plenty of articles online about all of this stuff. Once you start to figure it out your head will spin with the permutations allowed by buying two or more half-itineraries (uni-directional travel) and figuring whether round-the-world or other special tourist tickets which include a certain number of flights within a continent might be best. Then figure a business side-trip for one of you while the other continues on a round-the-world. There isn't a spreadsheet powerful enough nor a customer service agent patient enough for that.

Frank.

It is possible to do both a stopover and an open-jaw, so to speak. Try pricing a "multi-city" trip. I've had huge success doing this with US Airways and American and I've come out ahead almost every time. Give us the details and I can tell you which airline(s) it will be easier to book with.

Example of a ticket that I bought that was all on the same itinerary:

1. Chattanooga - Dallas - San Diego
2. Los Angeles - Los Cabos
3. Los Cabos - Dallas - Midland/Odessa
4. Midland/Odessa - Dallas - Chattanooga

Best part of the deal....since it was priced as an "iternational" itinerary, all our luggage was free!

All of the above with all taxes all said and done was $800 per person. For 4 people.

No wonder AA is bankrupt!!

Originally Posted by cha777

It is possible to do both a stopover and an open-jaw, so to speak. Try pricing a "multi-city" trip. I've had huge success doing this with US Airways and American and I've come out ahead almost every time. Give us the details and I can tell you which airline(s) it will be easier to book with.

Example of a ticket that I bought that was all on the same itinerary:

1. Chattanooga - Dallas - San Diego
2. Los Angeles - Los Cabos
3. Los Cabos - Dallas - Midland/Odessa
4. Midland/Odessa - Dallas - Chattanooga

Best part of the deal....since it was priced as an "iternational" itinerary, all our luggage was free!

All of the above with all taxes all said and done was $800 per person. For 4 people.

No wonder AA is bankrupt!!

Well, that's right. You can sometimes put together great multi-city itineraries and they are almost always better than making your own round-trip out of separate flights. Great when it all comes together.

The benefit of open-jaw and layover fares though is that they are usually available with minimal or zero adder to any simple return fare you might find, including steeply discounted bargains. So, I search for the well-publicized simple returns using the many search and travel engines out there, and then call up to add either the layover or open-jaw and get the more useful itinerary at the same price as the bargain. Booking a multi-city fare through US Airway's website often comes up as more expensive than finding a simple return and adding a layover even for the same seats on the very same aircraft. I often have phone-booking fees waived because the airline recognizes that their web-based tools don't allow customers to do what I need to do on the phone.

Figuring how an airline's fare structure works, as modified by various policies and limited by customer service rep training, is a different challenge. If you don't get what you want first time wait 20 minutes and call again and hope you get someone who knows more than the first person you spoke to. Approaching it as an intellectual challenge rather than a time-is-money inconvenience will appeal to some, but not most. Many of my friends are happy to spend more just to get it sorted - I like to invest a bit of time. YMMV.

Frank.

Thank you all for this useful information. I guess USA to Rome-Munich would not be classified as stopover. This would be multi-city.

Very good explanations so far, but here is something else to consider.

A foreign carrier may allow you a free stopover in its own country, on the way to your destination (and even a very interesting hotel + tour package to sweeten the deal). Maybe something like a a stopover in Helsinki, on your way to Munich... like we did, allowing us enough time to take the ferry to Tallin. Or a stopover in Munich for 2 weeks on your way back from Budapest, like we did. Icelandair has been doing this for decades.

Even if a ticket doesn't allow a stopover, you could always try to get a misconnect or a bad connection at your point of transfer. Like you're flying to Georgia (the country), and arrive in Munich early morning, and leave Munich for Tbilisi at night. Pushing your luck, you may have enough time to pick up your car at the Welt and return it to the airport to make you fly out. We did something like that on our honeymoon: 3 days in Rome going, 2 days coming back to/from SE Asia.

Originally Posted by btboy97

Thank you all for this useful information. I guess USA to Rome-Munich would not be classified as stopover. This would be multi-city.

Unless you look at it as a Munich-Rome. Like flying to Rome from Miami on LH, with a stopover in Munich. Worth checking.

Originally Posted by btboy97

Thank you all for this useful information. I guess USA to Rome-Munich would not be classified as stopover. This would be multi-city.

I have been doing stop overs for the last six years in every trip to Munich on the way back to Miami with my American Express Membership Rewards Points. I use Delta because it partners with Air France, KLM and Alitalia. Also, Delta has the cheapest fees for award tickets $339 for each award ticket as oppose to Air France. You could do Munich, Rome then to USA.
My next trip in October I will be stopping over in London for three nights on my way back to Miami, FL.

Originally Posted by btboy97

Thank you all for this useful information. I guess USA to Rome-Munich would not be classified as stopover. This would be multi-city.

A few comments (I hope I am still accurate).

1) You are doing ED so if you are considering dropping off in Italy, BMW will hire someone to drive your car back to Germany at an extra charge. Other dropoff locations have the car trucked to the port at BMW's expense.

2) If you were planning on flying USA->Munich (getting, driving, returning car) then flying to Rome (spending a few days) then flying Rome->USA, I don't think any airline considers that a round (return) trip or a layover trip. This is because neither USA->Munich->Rome nor Munich->Rome->USA is a normal scheduled route.

3) If you buy an "open jaw" ticket from USA-->Munich and Rome-->USA,
it should be priced as a "round trip". You will have to get from Munich to Rome on your own. Train or Cheap Airline are options.

3) If you fly refundable Business or First class, all rules are off and you have negotiating power. Frequent Flyer or companion tickets, good luck.

My info may be a bit dated so confirm on your own.

Originally Posted by Erregend

A few comments (I hope I am still accurate).
This is because neither USA->Munich->Rome nor Munich->Rome->USA is a normal scheduled route.

I would think that LH (Lufthansa) would consider it a normal routing... maybe nor the best fare, but it would work on an award ticket.

Originally Posted by Erregend

3) If you buy an "open jaw" ticket from USA-->Munich and Rome-->USA,
it should be priced as a "round trip". You will have to get from Munich to Rome on your own. Train or Cheap Airline are options.

It's more likely the way to get the best deal.

I will definitely not leave the car in Italy... for some dude to drive it back. I'll just drive around Germany and drop it off.
I just need to figure out the best deal/option: Miami-Rome-Munich-Miami versus Miami-Munich-Rome-Miami.
Thanks guys for your time and input. good stuff.

Originally Posted by btboy97

Thank you all for this useful information. I guess USA to Rome-Munich would not be classified as stopover. This would be multi-city.

Rome-Munich would work. I just checked Alitalia.com, and it lets you book a ticket Miami-Munich, with a stopover in Rome on the way back. Just an "Advanced Search" and choose Multiple leg. But the price goes up for the privilege. You could also get a misconnect on the way back and get a night in Rome for free.

I just checked Luftansa.com and Munich-Rome works well too. On the home page choose "Search with more options" and "Multi-segment journey" on the next page. Then look for Fort-Lauderdale-Munich, to bring the Charlotte connection with a codeshare with US Airways on the first leg. And then, after a stopover in Munich for a couple of weeks, Munich-Rome. And finally Rome-Miami. It adds about $100 to the Miami-Munich price and seems to price about $100.00 cheaper than Alitalia.

Check with your dates and origin city.

Thanks JCS. You are a star... a good Floridian.

Originally Posted by jcs

Rome-Munich would work. I just checked Alitalia.com, and it lets you book a ticket Miami-Munich, with a stopover in Rome on the way back. Just an "Advanced Search" and choose Multiple leg. But the price goes up for the privilege. You could also get a misconnect on the way back and get a night in Rome for free.

I just checked Luftansa.com and Munich-Rome works well too. On the home page choose "Search with more options" and "Multi-segment journey" on the next page. Then look for Fort-Lauderdale-Munich, to bring the Charlotte connection with a codeshare with US Airways on the first leg. And then, after a stopover in Munich for a couple of weeks, Munich-Rome. And finally Rome-Miami. It adds about $100 to the Miami-Munich price and seems to price about $100.00 cheaper than Alitalia.

Check with your dates and origin city.

Question is: Can he layover for a few days in Rome with that fare?

UPDATE: When I tried Lufthansa, I got $2700 for two people Miami-Munich then Rome-Miami vs $3400 MIA-MUC MUC-FCO FCO-MIA with 2 weeks in Munich and 1 week in Rome.
So it can be done, at a price. I hope you find better deals and have a wonderful time.

Originally Posted by Erregend

Question is: Can he layover for a few days in Rome with that fare?

Use to be the answer was no. Maybe that has all changed,

On Luftansa, I had a 2 weeks stopover and Rome is the destination... so can one can stay there a long time. The return from Rome to Miami, was with a change of plane in Frankfurt.

On Alitalia, the destination was Munich with a stopover in Rome for a few days on the way back.

Both airlines seem to charge about $100 more for the stopover privilege, but this maybe just for additional airport fees and taxes. Stopovers are not a new thing, they have been possible on certain, but not all fares, especially in the home country of an airline, like Germany for Lufthansa and Italy for Alitalia. What has changed though, is the web interface to the airlines reservation systems, and the reservation systems themselves.

One more note on Alitalia. It looks like they don't fly Rome-Miami daily, so this might allow for a misconnection, instead of a stopover... and use the stopover in Milan on a Miami-Milan-Munich journey. But some airlines have a time limitation on misconnections, like American has a 24 hour limit on award flights.

Originally Posted by btboy97

Thanks JCS. You are a star... a good Floridian.

My pleasure.

You have all sorts of options, and I've done them all.

You can certainly do open jaw - USA>>MUC and then FCO>>USA, (or the reverse) and find you're own way to Rome - more about that in a second.

But, I'd certainly price it all out as a single ticket first - good advice has already been given. My tool of choice is ITA.

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

click on the multi-city tab and go nuts.

I sometime will just buy one ticket from the 2 USA legs, and then buy a cheap ticket for inter-europe. Lufthansa often has cheap fares is you book far enough in advance, and you can always book a round trip if cheaper and just throw away the 2nd half. Low cost airlines are great for this, but actually LH often has the same fares

I just checked comparable fares for random dates:

ORD-MUC-ORD = $992 on UA or LH
ORD-MUC FCO-ORD = $962 on UA or LH (Open Jaw)
ORD-MUC-FCO-ORD = $1,240 on LH or $1,320 on UA (Stopover)

MUC-FCO (one way) = $1000!!
MUC-FCO (round trip) = $250 on LH

So - doing it all on one ticket or buying a separate MUC-FCO and tossing the 2nd half come out about the same for my dates.

I did a layover and open jaw for my last ED.

LAX-LHR (12 hour sightseeing so no layover)-AMS (layover)-MUC
(drove to Czech and Hamburg and dropped off the car in Hamburg)
HAM-MAD (23 hours sightseeing so no layover)-LAX

All for 40,000 miles on AA. Usually taxes and fuel surcharges are really high if you fly through London but wasn't too bad this time.

I got to see London and Madrid (albeit for under 24 hours), Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, and Hamburg!

Originally Posted by RVD

I did a layover and open jaw for my last ED.

LAX-LHR (12 hour sightseeing so no layover)-AMS (layover)-MUC
(drove to Czech and Hamburg and dropped off the car in Hamburg)
HAM-MAD (23 hours sightseeing so no layover)-LAX

All for 40,000 miles on AA. Usually taxes and fuel surcharges are really high if you fly through London but wasn't too bad this time.

I got to see London and Madrid (albeit for under 24 hours), Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, and Hamburg!

That's an extremely good itinerary for 40k AA miles... but it seems that you did that before American stopped offering stopovers and started charging outrageous fees for going through London. I like the Madrid connection though on your return.

How did you do Hamburg-Madrid? BA via London? Iberia doesn't seem to do it.

We got a stopover in Helsinki (+ side trip to Estonia) on our way to Munich in 2004, on American for 40k AA miles RT... not possible anymore. We dropped the car in Paris and flew home nonstop.

This spring we open-jawed Arrecife and Santa Cruz de la Palma for 40k AA miles, but the overnight stay in Madrid on the way back was not long enough to go downtown. Amazing driving experience though... I wish we had a BMW to do it. If it was just me, I'll go back there with my next ED. No chance, as my wife is not going back; she will go anywhere, but just once.

Originally Posted by jcs

That's an extremely good itinerary for 40k AA miles... but it seems that you did that before American stopped offering stopovers and started charging outrageous fees for going through London. I like the Madrid connection though on your return.

How did you do Hamburg-Madrid? BA via London? Iberia doesn't seem to do it.

We got a stopover in Helsinki (+ side trip to Estonia) on our way to Munich in 2004, on American for 40k AA miles RT... not possible anymore. We dropped the car in Paris and flew home nonstop.

This spring we open-jawed Arrecife and Santa Cruz de la Palma for 40k AA miles, but the overnight stay in Madrid on the way back was not long enough to go downtown. Amazing driving experience though... I wish we had a BMW to do it. If it was just me, I'll go back there with my next ED. No chance, as my wife is not going back; she will go anywhere, but just once.

Actually I don't know what was up, I did this itinerary this past February 2012. I think my total in taxes was under $100.

I am trying to remember the exact airplanes but I think I flew Air Berlin. Which reminds me...I went to Berlin. So that's it...my itinerary coming back was actually:

Hamburg (dropped off car) - took train to Berlin
sightseeing in Berlin
flew from Berlin - Madrid

Stayed in Madrid for 23 hours and 50 minutes (or something like that just under 24 hours)

and then flew from Madrid back to LAX.

Sorry for the confusion. I do like to use open jaws and layovers...

On another trip last year (Nov 2012) I flew LAX-ICN (Seoul stopover for 10 days)-HKG (Hong Kong)-ICN (23 hours) - LAX. I felt like I got a free trip to Hong Kong out of it.

RVD.